Picard 3x08- 'Surrender' ~~ { Spoilers Within }

Stark · 08-04-2023 1:43am

Shrike was impossible to destroy with shields up and portal weapon in use. But even the most powerful ships are easy to destroy with shields down and no-one piloting the thing.

Expected Vadic to reassemble herself T-1000 style after being shattered but hopefully the destruction of the Shrike put pay to that possibility.

I fully expected Troi to be a changeling when Riker was confessing about the compromised codes to her. I guess her Betazoid abilities and Riker's "imzadi" connection to her make it easier to distinguish the real thing from the Changeling version.

Evade · 08-04-2023 2:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453486#Comment_120453486

Whatever was done to these changelings seems to indicate they can only take humanoid forms so no Laas style spaceborne creatures for them.

breezy1985 · 08-04-2023 7:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453517#Comment_120453517

He would know it's the real Troi because they can speak to each other telepathically 😁

08-04-2023 8:12am

@AMKC they stole the cloak from the Bounty, at the museum

So Sisko to come fight a pah wraith... joking but strange that they've completely blanked the DS9 crew in a season about changelings (Worf doesn't count)

Did anyone notice how quiet and still Dorn was when Data entered the briefing room? Like he wasn't expecting to be in shot.

Also, **** you guys for killing Hammerhead

Evade · 08-04-2023 8:34am

Minor nitpick from this episode, Picard's vineyard isn't in Bordeaux so his wine can't be a Bordeaux and if they've retconned his vineyard to be in Bordeaux all his wine would be Bordeaux.

Cookie_Monster · 08-04-2023 8:36am

That's just the typical lazy writing that has dogged the series since the start, no effort, no thought. Just as long as whatever it is sounds better at the time

Rawr · 08-04-2023 8:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120450043#Comment_120450043

Of course, it all makes sense now:

Those dark, dead eyes. Hands rubbing in glee with the horror that will come The Federation. We were warned to “Be careful with the scissors”, but we weren’t…and now humanity is in space, doing all kinds of things with scissors. Diabolical. RTE tried to warn us what will come, showing us Bosco’s Iconian Gateway to Dublin Zoo, but we just didn’t listen!!!

Damn!

:P

Stark · 08-04-2023 10:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453620#Comment_120453620

I wonder was that ever retained from a canon point of view. It was shown once back in the weird early days of season 1 and then never mentioned again despite there being many occasions in subsequent series where a telepathic message between the two could have saved the day.

breezy1985 · 08-04-2023 10:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453857#Comment_120453857

It's just one of those funny pilot episode things never to be seen again.

Greyjoy · 08-04-2023 11:36am

A good episode overall but with only 2 eps to go the crew are still none the wiser as to what the Changelings' plan for Founders day is, how does Jack fit into it and what's behind the red door in his vision. Getting a peek behind the red door would have made a much better cliffhanger for ep 08. I'm wary that they'll keep dragging this out until the final episode.

breezy1985 · 08-04-2023 12:30pm

Still don't know who Skeletor is either or what exactly those bird people were (did we see them shapeshift)

Rawr · 08-04-2023 12:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454064#Comment_120454064

In fairness to them, they have used the previous 8 episodes establishing the stakes and getting the characters in place. Could have been done in 4, but at least they did it in the first 8. Previous seasons of Picard and practically all seasons of Discovery had the horrendous habit of cramming all of this setup into the final 2 episodes.

Everything is established this time, we just need to know Jack’s secret and the final 2 can be about how the TNG crew save the day based on that. If they manage their time well we might even get a decent fairwell from them.

EltonJohn69 · 08-04-2023 12:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453702#Comment_120453702

Confirmed: Golem Picard is a changeling. Someone should have vaporised him then and there.

Rawr · 08-04-2023 1:00pm

One thing that made wonder. Worf getting all poetic and fresh with Troi when he sees her again. Riker exclaimes “Inappropriate!”, which I agree…

But Worf…you see your ex-girlfriend from TNG S7…who I guess wasn’t worth hanging around with to sign up for the Enterprise E….get all poetic in front of her husband (and apparently Worf’s friend)…while in the meantime he had married another woman…who died during the Dominion War. Was he also counting the days since he had seen Diana when he was with Jadzia?

As I said in the DS9 revisit thread, I like Worf, but he’s a horrible person.

Bet you anything he hasn’t seen Alexander all these years either.

eadrom · 08-04-2023 1:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454280#Comment_120454280

I didn't really see that as Worf coming-on to Troi, or trying to rekindle any romance. It was friendship, he was just expressing it in ways that he hadn't been able or comfortable to before. I felt like all 3 must know each other well enough to know that, Riker's comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek -- at least insofar as him thinking Worf is trying to steal his gal or anything.

But otherwise yeah, generally not a great person.

Didn't Alexander die?

breezy1985 · 08-04-2023 1:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454349#Comment_120454349

Alexander isn't dead. He just might as well be as far as Worf is concerned.

Evade · 08-04-2023 2:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454251#Comment_120454251

Geordie too then.

CramCycle · 08-04-2023 3:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453486#Comment_120453486

That's what I thought, all an act, she knows the truth so could sound like she "felt" the darkness. Whatever the door thing is, it's what the changelings wanted and this is them having a back up plan. It's not going to be the case as it opens up even more plot holes but I think the writers are just hinting at it to give another thing to chat about.

Slydice · 09-04-2023 6:40pm

Strange. I wasn't feeling it for most of that episode.

It kinda ticked along and then felt like the ending was the point.

That it needed to get Jack and Deanna to the red door together.

So.. an episode of whether red door is a big deal or not coming up I guess.

Slydice · 09-04-2023 6:43pm

Maybe my lighting settings were off.. like a bit too bright. I might give it another go.

breezy1985 · 10-04-2023 9:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120459076#Comment_120459076

Not much happened for most of the episode. Just a drawn out cliche I'm gonna shoot the hostages bit.

TheIrishGrover · 11-04-2023 4:50pm

Thank God Evil-Perry's gone. Worf just walks on through the ship and saves the day? (Although, again, Riker. Hilarious). And the aliens? Are they all shapeshifters that can't take one little stab through the back through the chest? Not much of an evolution if you ask me 😀.

Data/Lore reminded me of Aang vs Ozai in Last Airbender. Almost gone but then. But it was good to see Spot and Tasha.

So now they have 2 episodes to wrap everything up? Oh God.... They are gonna look for another season, aren't they?

So far it's definitely been infinitely better than last season's terrible cheap season. With some very enjoyable performances (Riker, Shaw) and an interesting idea of the Federation being compromised but let Patrick Stewart etc just rest for God's Sake.

There ya go, THERE is your Section 31 series: No Michelle Yeoh now she is getting the acclaim she has deserved for years. No Discovery camp or over-emotional handwringing: Have S31 fighting against a Compromised Federation. Cheaper (Not tied to a starship. Can use repurposed sets, redressed locations) can tug on the memberberries as they can bring in random known characters for "Are they/aren't they" like Tuvok. Could have a darker tone that would suit S31 more: Sort of a paranoid Invasion-of-the-Bodysnatchers vibe. Think more Spy series rather than pew pew pew.

But they'd never "handover" to another show. The only way they would do that is if they ended this series in failure (Picard dead, the rest assumed dead - but with enough leeway to make it plausible that they survived if they need to boost ratings). But, as I've said before, about the only show that would have had the balls to do something like that, would have been DS9 and it was a touch too early to pull it off. And the US simply wasn't ready for that (Hence the backward steps that were the mostly episodic Voyager and unfocused mess that was Enterprise)

TheIrishGrover · 11-04-2023 4:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120450043#Comment_120450043

That ACTUALLY made me laugh out loud

Brian? · 12-04-2023 9:32pm

ok episode, some truly silly bits but ok over all.

The only bit that annoyed me was “Give it everything we’ve got! FIRE!” They launch 4 torpedoes. 4. I don’t know why it annoyed me so much.

I’ve decided Jacky boy is being controlled by the Pah wraiths. Sisko is going to appear and save them all.

AMKC · 12-04-2023 10:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120471031#Comment_120471031

The only bit that annoyed me was “Give it everything we’ve got! FIRE!” They launch 4 torpedoes. 4. I don’t know why it annoyed me so much.

Maybe because it was pathetic. A Miranda Class would have more firepower or even a constitution class and they are much older than the Titan-A and we know the Galaxy class had a lot of fire power as we often seen it fire 8 to 10 torpedos at a time.