Why I'll say no to a united ireland

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121900714#Comment_121900714

Let’s not pretend you read the book either.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121900645#Comment_121900645

So Murphy and Ryan, nearly a century later "suggests" that the 13 farmers in the small area were all shot the same night because they were informers? FrancieBrady, that does not cut it, and well you know.

Quote from the slightly more Neutral Cork based Examiner in more recent times: the murders " continues to divide historians, some pointing to a sectarian agenda, others arguing that the victims were targeted for their real or perceived loyalist sympathies."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40857488.html

The hundreds of families who literally left that small area in West Cork immediately for England had no doubt it was sectarian. Even the Dáil Cabinet expressed its “abhorrence” at the violence perpetrated on the Protestant population.

The Catholic Bishop of Cork Dr Daniel Coholan added his own denouncement, setting the killings firmly in the context of the anti-Catholic violence in the North that had accompanied partition.

“Our country, north and south, is being disgraced before the world. When will it all end? And where shall we end ourselves if, in the north, Protestants continue murdering members of the Catholic minority, and in the south, Catholics take reprisals on the Protestant minority?” he asked.

“We shall find ourselves moving in a vicious circle of crime: we shall be involved in a succession of murderous reprisals and counter-reprisals.”

I am not surprised at you FrancisBrady saying those innocent Protestant were killed because they were "spies", when even the then Catholic bishop of Cork knew these plain decent ordinary country farmers were innocent.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121900819#Comment_121900819

Again your ineptitude at being able to process information betrays you; another report on the same issue was put forward and you fail to address it instead of having a go at the poster. Did you not post about “shooting the messenger only just this morning”?

Still struggling to correct your lies though I notice….

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121900729#Comment_121900729

I have not a clue what you are badgering about "lies" for. Many posts ago I asked you more than once did you condemn the murder of Billy Fox in Co. Monaghan by the pIRA and the burning of his girlfriend's house / bible... I do not think you condemned that (and still have not?) . Perhaps you can clear things up by saying if you condemned it or not. Or maybe you think there was "no alternative"?

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121900912#Comment_121900912

Again, you don’t get to demand I answer questions without addressing the lies you’ve clearly been directed back to address.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121900912#Comment_121900912

Then there’s the outright lies about Charlie Bird you used as some sort of half assed soap box

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121900912#Comment_121900912

There’s also the utter nonsensical lies you told about talking to a German about East Germans not “pulling themselves up by their boot straps”

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121898385#Comment_121898385

The blame for creating a violent sectarian start which, as we are discussing NI, was circa 100 years ago. We can go further and further back but that dilutes the current topic.

Edit: I’d also add the paymasters in Westminster for not dealing with their problem child correctly, instead they used the people of NI as the proverbial political football as/when it suited them.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121900920#Comment_121900920

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121900926#Comment_121900926

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121900931#Comment_121900931

I did not tell any lies. What I said about Charlie Bird is easily researchable. And you are after pulling that phrase about the East Germans out of context in a reply I made to another poster (Blanch152) who brought up the subject of German Reunification. Nothing lies about it.

One thing for sure, you are posting plenty of posts about "lies"....the last 5 at 12.47, 12.57, 12.58, 12.59 and 1 pm.

Some may be of the opinion you forget to take your tablets today or something.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901101#Comment_121901101

Your statement about me in post 6536 start there seeing as you need spoon feeding

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901106#Comment_121901106

And I replied to you before about that. I have asked you many times do you condemn the murder of Billy Fox, F.G. politician and the burning of his girlfriend's family home + symbolic burning of their bible. You refuse to answer that.

Now please stop harassing me.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121897901#Comment_121897901

@Francis McM Let me know what words you are struggling with in this short paragraph and I’ll happily help you.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901168#Comment_121901168

if you don’t correct you lies, you don’t get to demand I answer questions.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901171#Comment_121901171

I am not posting you posts every few minutes demanding you answer the question. It is quite obvious you did not and will not. So time to move on.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901193#Comment_121901193

Or you could have some semblance of humility and simply amend the post where you lied about what I said/never said

then admit your point about Charlie bird “not being right after” was contrived nonsense you have no clue about.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901101#Comment_121901101

And you are after pulling that phrase about the East Germans out of context in a reply I made to another poster (Blanch152) who brought up the subject of German Reunification. Nothing lies about it.

Except you clearly don’t understand that word “context”. The post you jumped on by blanch152 had context to the discussion.

Your (let’s admit it) made up discussion with some German stating West Germany recovered quicker because East Germans simply didn’t pull themselves up by their but straps is nothing short of fairy tales.

Like the topic of NI you fail to be able to recognise what happened in the prelude to the split of Germany and who was running East Germany. How the West assisted West Germany and why. Even location of prewar industry was a major impact.

But you have this irrepressible need to spout inaccuracies then double down on them.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901245#Comment_121901245

I was replying to someone else about Germany. I do not think you were in on the conversation. it was very amiable and civilised without you. I wrote "Even though living standards and technology etc have improved so much in most countries in the world in the past 3 or 4 decades, only six in 10 Germans overall see reunification as a success, according to a YouGov survey of 2,034 people. More than eight in 10 people in the former East Germany consider reunification incomplete, even after all these decades, and one in three see it as a failure." See post no. 6645. And i gave a link to back it up.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901206#Comment_121901206

What are you rambling about now, as the post no. 6536 you were complaining about mentions nothing about Charlie Bird. I never lied about what you said / never said. Many posts ago I asked you did you condemn the murder of Billy Fox in Co. Monaghan by the pIRA and the burning of his girlfriend's house / bible... I do not think you condemned that, and I gave up asking you, so please do not keep badgering me.

You have succeed in diverting the conversation away from my post of 6783 at 12.27 this afternoon, with your badgering about alleged lies a day or 2 ago.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121900819#Comment_121900819

What makes you think your sources are ‘neutral’?

You keep thinking Catholic priests and bishops are some sort of oracles in these matters. They aren’t and at that time they certainly were not neutral.

Like yourself who shouts ‘sectarian’ if someone looks sideways at a protestant they Catholic hierarchy were largely anti republican.

Now can you or can you not find any history that supports your nonsensical theory that the south was more sectarian than the north?

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901416#Comment_121901416

Post 6536 is not about Charlie bird. Never was or has been. It’s actually amazing you can’t re-read your own posts and distinguish this. You misquoted me and in true form you haven’t the humility to deal with it but have doubled down on your irrepressible need to “be right” above all else.

Your outright lies about Charlie bird are another issue.

droidman123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901473#Comment_121901473

The same poster was asked for proof when they claimed the multinationals were laundering money here,also the same poster was asked how they could possibly know that they have read more history books than miniegg.....same deafining silence.the poster keeps posting drivel then goes scurrying when challenged

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901786#Comment_121901786

Also made claims about secondary schools in Fermanagh and dodged the topic when thoroughly discredited.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901437#Comment_121901437

"neutral" ? Read what I wrote. You miss the point yet again. I wrote:

"So Murphy and Ryan, nearly a century later "suggests" that the 13 farmers in the small area were all shot the same night because they were informers? FrancieBrady, that does not cut it, and well you know.

Quote from the slightly more Neutral Cork based Examiner in more recent times: the murders " continues to divide historians, some pointing to a sectarian agenda, others arguing that the victims were targeted for their real or perceived loyalist sympathies."

Bandon Valley Massacre: The violent week that left 13 Protestants dead

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40857488.html

In 1922, midway between the ratification of the Treaty and Ireland’s descent into civil war, a spate of murders in West Cork saw 13 Protestants killed between April 26 and 29, writes Pet O’Connell

The hundreds of families who literally left that small area in West Cork immediately for England had no doubt it was sectarian. Even the Dáil Cabinet expressed its “abhorrence” at the violence perpetrated on the Protestant population."

I certainly do not think Catholic Bishops are some sort of "oracle" in these matters as you claim, but the point was even then Catholic bishop of Cork knew these 13 plain decent ordinary country farmers in West Cork were innocent, and he said so at the time. Everyone knew it. It does not surprise me that a SF supporter like you tries to justify the murder of civilians and the intimidation of so many people ( 40,000?) out of the country. I suppose you think the murder of other Protestants by the IRA, like the Pearsons in Offaly, was justifiable too?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901813#Comment_121901813

"So Murphy and Ryan, nearly a century later "suggests" that the 13 farmers in the small area were all shot the same night because they were informers? FrancieBrady, that does not cut it, and well you know.

Why? Not unprecedented. Collins killed 15 spies on one day.

Murphy and Ryan and others are looking at the actual evidence and going on the words of people who were there.

Again, have you any back up for your nonsense theory that the Irish state was more sectarian than the one party, one religion statelet in the north? One credible historian?

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901786#Comment_121901786

It’s one of the strangest posting strategies I’ve ever seen. The copy and paste efforts are something to behold.

pureza

The Irish state was cracky pot in its own way for decades to be fair

Take losing your job as a woman if you got married for example

Worse ,losing your home or farm if you had no children and your husband died

Ironically of course the once Rome ruled state is now one of the wealthiest per capita and certainly one of the most Liberal in the world and way ahead of the UK on many matters

The main anti unity sentiment in the North these days is a legacy one,a house built on straw and tumbling

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901850#Comment_121901850

There is no evidence the 13 Protestants shot , by local IRA, near the little village of Dunmanway in west Cork were spies. They were local small farmers etc, and one was just a boy. Sinn Fein and IRA representatives, from both the pro-Treaty side, which controlled the Provisional Government in Dublin and the  anti-Treaty side, which controlled the area the killings took place in, immediately condemned the killings. And here you are over 100 years later justifying the killings. Sick you are, as you are not even as honourable as Sinn Fein / IRA were back in 1922, and that is saying something.

I said the 26 counties was more sectarian by many metrics when compared with N.Ireland. The Protestant Minority % of the population greatly reduced south of the border : in N. I. the minority Catholic percentage increased. There were some Catholics employed in the police, army etc in N. Ireland : there were virtually no Protestants in such jobs here in the first 50 years of this state. The Catholic church had a special place in this state, as NeTemere was used to assimilate many of the minority. Irish language was used as a weapon of discrimination against job seekers for public sector jobs, and against those seeking entrance to courses in university eg engineering which had nothing to do with Irish etc.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901955#Comment_121901955

I said the 26 counties was more sectarian by many metrics when compared with N.Ireland. 

You were asked, can you back that up by quoting a credible historian that agrees with you? If you can't we just take it as more musings along familiar lines.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901953#Comment_121901953

The Irish state was cracky pot in its own way for decades to be fair

Absolutely. More sectarian than the one party one religion statelet in the north is a complete loony fringe fabrication

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901980#Comment_121901980

Look at the facts. Are you denying the minority population ( ie Protestant ) decreased from 10% of the population to 3 % in the Republic of Ireland, where in N. Ireland in the same period the minority population there ( ie Catholic ) increased from 31% to forty something per cent. What does that tell you ?

There was a huge controversy when a Protestant librarian was appointed in Co. Mayo. DeVelera said, and I paraphrase, if he had one job to offer and two applicants, one protestant and one catholic, he would always give the job to the catholic. When N. Ireland was set up, 3000 of the 7000 jobs in the police there were reserved for Catholics. Because of pressure from Republicans etc, those were not all filled. But some were.

In Co. Wexford in the fifties, when a Protestant partner in a mixed marriage insisted the child be brought up Protestant, the local priest arranged for all the Protestant shops in the town to be boycotted. Can you give me an example of the reverse happening in N. Ireland?

There were more than a few brave historians who studied the subject, but unfortunately they were attacked by Republicans. Read Buried Lives: the Protestants of Southern Ireland, by Robin Bury. He is a historian who lived / studied in Cork and Dublin, but who now lives in Canada.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121902045#Comment_121902045

So you just want to cherry pick stuff you have been absolutely hammered on before and try them again.

You cannot find a single historian that agrees with your pitifully biased nonsense, as I thought.

That'll do for me. Maybe write a history yourself.