Suing your Property Management company

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120428966#Comment_120428966

It’s not your roof, you aren’t the sole owner.

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120429048#Comment_120429048

no but the leak is damaging my property, so as the "injured party" am i not within my rights to pursue the MAs who have neglected to maintain it?

indeed all owners are "injured parties" as their properties and their values are being adversely affected by a leaking roof. would you buy into an apartment block and pay full market price, where you knew there to be a badly leaking roof?

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120428996#Comment_120428996

well the OMC of which i am a member may well pursue the MAs.

if we replace them then they have effectively been let off the hook, and we the OMC will have to start the whole process all over. Why should we, when in good faith we the OMC contracted them to maintain the property, and which by entering into that contract they agreed to do so.

let's not forget they have been paid to maintain a property, but have clearly failed to do so.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120429088#Comment_120429088

The MAs work for the OMC. Your argument is therefore with the OMC, which you are a member of.

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120429128#Comment_120429128

well that is a moot point.

i am of the understanding that if you contract someone (and pay them!) to carryout a service/job and the fail to do so, then you have legal recourse. the MA has been contracted (and PAID) by the OMC to do a job. they have FAILED to fulfil their side of the bargain.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120429174#Comment_120429174

But you personally are not contracting the MA, the OMC are. You’re grip is with the OMC, of which you are a member, the MA works for the OMC. The MA has no obligation to an individual owner, they have a contract with the OMC which is a separate entity.

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120429244#Comment_120429244

ok so assume i am a Director of the OMC. what then?

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120429680#Comment_120429680

Then you get together with the other Directors, find out why the MA hasn’t gotten a roofer to fix the roof, and sack the MA if they aren’t doing their job.

But as a Director, you would not have a contract personally with the MA, the MA is employed by the OMC, of which you are a Director.

Op, start with a registered letter to the OMC board of Directors demanding to know why the roof hasn’t been fixed. The damage to your property should be a matter of you claiming off the insurance which the OMC would have for the building, demand the details of the insurer from the Board.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120429174#Comment_120429174

Have you read the contract between OMC and MA? Any of mine didn’t hand over control or responsibility to the MA beyond routine, budgeted expenses. When we had issues like yours, the board and the MA would work together to get them fixed but the MA want expected (contractually) to do it themselves, especially if it requires spending a lot of money.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430022#Comment_120430022

The MA are usually the ones who get the quotes from builders, but yes, you are correct, it is the OMC Board who give the go ahead. As I said earlier, I suspect this is a case of either the money isn’t there, or they can’t get a builder to do it, either way, the OMC should inform the op as to the reason for the delay.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120429174#Comment_120429174

You only have recourse if they do something incorrectly, ie they hire someone to fix the roof and it's not fixed. If they don't do their job then your recourse is to fire them and hire someone who will do their job.

With the current state of trades I can well believe that they can't get a roofer. They have their choice of work so can pick their jobs, if your roof is a small and/or awkward job they won't be interested.

But you need to chase the directors of your OMC because it is their job to maintain your complex and they aren't doing that. You need to go to the AGM and make repairing the roof an item on the agenda. You might have to become a director though.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120429105#Comment_120429105

You don’t know exactly what the MA have been contracted to do, until you’ve seen the actual contract.

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430340#Comment_120430340

Hi Andrew

It is my understanding they are contracted to do these repairs, as it was discussed and agreed with them that they would do so, at the last AGM. I haven't actually seen the contract, no.

Also the funds are available to my knowledge.

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430277#Comment_120430277

Thanks Del2005. They the MAs did get their handyman to try and fix it last year, on a few occasions, but clearly he did not do a proper job as the leak reoccurred within weeks of his "repairs". My understanding is getting a professional roofer is proving difficult.

A fellow neighbour who is a DIRECTOR of the OMC has tried on numerous occasions to contact the MA to move things along, but he seems impossible to get hold of. The MA never gets back to emails, doesn't answer phone calls/return messages, and on those rare occasions (2 in all) when he does respond, all the OMC director has got is empty promises/assurances.

It seems the OMC are doing their bit, the money is there in the sinking fund, the proposed work was agreed at the AGM, the MAs are contracted to carry it out, but the MA are unable/unwilling to get the repair done!

Any suggestions?

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430673#Comment_120430673

They are not contracted to do the repairs, they may be contracted to find the people to do the repairs, the Board then signs off on it and pays the roofer.

I think you might be under the misapprehension that this would be included in the fee paid to the MA by the OMC and that they are responsible for the repair, they aren’t, the OMC (ie you) are. You elect the Board to look after these matters on your behalf.

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430022#Comment_120430022

well the repairs were discussed at the last AGM, and it was agreed by all(OMC & MA) that quotes for the work should be sought, and the repairs should be done.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430740#Comment_120430740

Yes, the MA gets the quotes, gives them to the Board, they agree to the fee and engage the roofer to fix the roof. That is how it works.

Do you actually know if the MA has sought quotes from roofers?

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430749#Comment_120430749

i understand the MA has tried 2 roofing firms, but because he(the MA) is impossible to get hold of, i cannot say what if any quotes he has actually got.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430752#Comment_120430752

Sean, that’s a pretty important piece of information, and begs the question, on what basis are you considering suing the MA if you know that they are indeed seeking quotes from roofers? The MA can’t make roofers give quotes, and if they have forwarded quotes to the Board, they are the people you should be contacting.

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430761#Comment_120430761

ok Dave. trust me i really do not want to sue anyone. the only winners in court tend to be the guys in funny wigs. i would much rather get the repairs done and focus on other more enjoyable matters.

my understanding is they may have tried to get quotes and have a survey done, but to my knowledge i do not believe they have been successful. i mean how long should that take? the roof is leaking for 2 years now.

Long Sean Silver

Again Thank you guys for contributing. Your comments have been most informative & helpful.

As I mentioned above I really would prefer not to have to sue anybody. A much better outcome is to get the repairs done. Eventually. I will speak with the Board of the OMC and write a registered letter and email to the MAs requiring an immediate progress update as to getting quotes, survey from roofers etc. We will give them a week to respond, and failing that we will need to consider sacking them.

The joys of being a LL ..... 😉

Count Dracula

Christ on a bike.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430740#Comment_120430740

I’m not talking specifically about your situation, I’m trying to explain that you can’t sue the MA for not doing something if the contract doesn’t cover that. It’s not enough to say that you think/know that maintenance and repairs are their responsibility, you need to see the contract to check if that’s true.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430840#Comment_120430840

You can write all the registered letters you want, the MA doesn’t report to you. Their contract is with the OMC and while you might be a member of that, the running of that company and the contractual interactions lie with the board of directors.

I appreciate that you are very frustrated but your contractual relationship is with the OMC and directors. That’s where you have to focus your efforts. Send the registered letter to them.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430711#Comment_120430711

While I understand the practicalities of the current situation, I'd expect the MA to have an arrangement with a roofer, just as they would with other trades. The MA should generally have arrangements with a plumber, an electrician, a roofer, a alarms provider and a few more. They should be prepared for situations like this, and shouldn't be starting from scratch in the way an ordinary householder would be.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430277#Comment_120430277

The suggestion that you've gotten in a few different ways now is that you work through the OMC to get the MA to do the job. You have no relationship with the MA. Your relationship is with the OMC. Engage with the directors of the OMC to get them to progress the matter.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430711#Comment_120430711

The only option is to replace the MA, either call an EGM or at the AGM if its due soon. If they won't reply to the directors then they are useless and not doing their job. Even to say that they can't get anyone would be acceptable, ghosting their employer isn't.

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120431178#Comment_120431178

I totally agree Andrew. Any MAs worth their salt should have a list/book of contacts, eg plumbers, electricians, roofers, gardeners to be contacted in these circumstances. I mean i'm just a LL and i have such a book. I expect every other LL does too. One would have thought that they have built up a working relationship with these tradesmen over a period of time. They really shouldn't be trawling through the Golden Pages. After all they are being employed/contracted for their experience & "expertise".

I appreciate the OMC are the ones who have a contract with the MA. I am quite happy that the Directors are doing the job to the best of their abilities, and are pursuing the MA to move things on. One of the Directors is writing to the MA this weekend by both email and registered letter asking to get immediate feedback on what is happening. I have a copy of the letter. I agree if the MA does not respond in a meaningful way to this, then we need to move to sack them.

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430913#Comment_120430913

Thanks Mark. I appreciate it is the Directors of the OMC who must pursue the MA, not individual owners, in order to move things on. If the MA cannot respond to explain why he has made no progress, then he's as much use as a chocolate teapot and needs sacking.

martingriff

Is the leaky roof the roof of the building of apartments or the apartment above you. If the 2nd have you talked to that owner

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430874#Comment_120430874

fair enough, but does HE know anything about fixing a leaky roof?