Picard 3x07- 'Dominion' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

ilovesmybrick

Picard 3x07- 'Dominion' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** } Warning: This thread will contain spoilers

AMKC

OK so a lot in this episode that is either wrong or does not make sense.

For one wheels on trolleys in the 24th or the 24th or 25th century Federation lap lol I doubt it. They would hover. Also about the virus Starfleet did not officially use it on the Changelings Section 31 did and yet not a single mention of them and again they did not bring the cure to them Odo did though help from Doctor Bashir and Chief O' Brian by getting it from the mind of the section 31 officer who's name I forget.

Ye I really think they should have just called this episode "Vadic" as its mostly about her.

Oh and bringing that Data/Lore thing on board the Titan really was not clever.

So now Jack is telepathic too.

Oh the Bridge fell far too easily.

So ye not perfect and no where near as good as all the episodes before it.

Spear

It's a bit of a frustrating episode.

The surprise cameo, well, pseudo cameo, didn't add to the plot in the way Ro Larens did.

It fills in quite a bit, yet also still leaves other main threads dangling, or teased further. Jacks passenger is repeatedly teased again and again, but looks like it's just to setup that reveal in the next episode.

Ship in the bottle episodes like this must be fairly cheap though, something that seems to also apply to the season as a whole.

eadrom

Pretty crap, to be fair. Forty minutes of people standing saying plot to each other. Some of the plot sounded interesting, some of it didn't, but may as well have been reading the wiki article.

Definitely missing a lot of energy without Riker. Hang on, wasn't he and Troi in Vadic's custody at the end of the last episode? Where'd they go? Bit of a setup without pay-off there, or maybe I missed a bit of the never-ending exposition dialog that explained it away.

Killing Lore with friendship didn't work for me. Felt entirely like the writers writing for the Reddit comments, giving the fans the Data / Geordi goodbye scene they always wanted. The writing and performances just didn't sell it.

Obviously a bit of a bottle episode anyway, with all the action (and not much of it) taking place in a single location and without some of the usual bigger names (Riker, Worf, Rafi) or fancy extras. Just wish they had done something more singularly interesting with it and converted some of those plot points into actual visual story-telling in some other episode(s).

Not quite insultingly bad, but definitely the weakest of the season so far.

FutureGuy

I have mixed feelings about the episode. A good episode and one that was needed (plot explanation and Vadic reveal -she had been a very one-dimensional character) but not as good as what we have seen so far. Some of the camerawork with Jack and Sidney being chased was comical. They should have been captured/killed in seconds.

Enjoyed the Geordie/Data moment. The forced Picard/Data friendship was painful in S1.

We need an answer to what is up with Jack next week. I feel next week will probably be a similar vibe (explaining and revealing more) and will get everyone back together for a two-part finale.

7/10

corkie

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Dominion_%28episode%29

Enjoyable but as others have said a weak episode.

@AMKC Odo did though help from Doctor Bashir and Chief O' Brian by getting it from the mind of the section 31 officer who's name I forget.

Ironically, it was a Federation doctor who was able to cure the Founders. Julian Bashir, the chief medical officer of space stationDeep Space 9, realized that Section 31 was responsible for the disease. He captured Section 31 agent Luther Sloan and used a multitronic engrammatic interpreter to extract the cure.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Morphogenic_virus

eadrom

@AMKC --

and again they did not bring the cure to them Odo did though help from Doctor Bashir and Chief O' Brian

Vadic did correct them on that later in the episode. Picard and co. said that they gave the changelings the cure, Vadic snaps back that they didn't, they only developed one and "one of our own" had to bring it to the link.

AlmightyCushion

One thing I don't get is earlier in the season when the Titan was dead in the nebula and was falling into the gravity well, Vadic just let it happen and didn't try to stop it even though she is trying to capture Jack. He would have died if the crew of the Titan didn't figure out a way to get enough power to get away from the gravity well. So, why was she ok with the Titan being destroyed and Jack dying if she needs him.

Why does she even need Jack. Picard said she need Picard's DNA and Jack's blood to make a perfect copy. Why not just take Picard when he was chilling in the vineyard. His blood would surely work as well as Jack's.

Spear

Now that we've gotten Vadic's back story, there's still a major chunk I don't get. If she was the one who first developed the new abilities, and led the breakout, upgraded the others and is leader of them, then who's the big bad that she's reporting to?

If there were only 10 changelings at Daystrom, where did the rest come from? Is she making them with the use of transporters? And if so, why was she unwilling to use transports to board the Titan, as if she was afraid of them too?

FutureGuy

There's more to the Picard body. I don't think a replica of Picard is needed to pass Frontier Day instections.

We know that the Irumidic Syndrome was actually something fare more and Jack is manifesting that in ways that are like a super power. Noty sure I like where this is going, that Picard is some evolution of humanity?

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120419292#Comment_120419292

One thing I don't get is earlier in the season when the Titan was dead in the nebula and was falling into the gravity well, Vadic just let it happen and didn't try to stop it even though she is trying to capture Jack. He would have died if the crew of the Titan didn't figure out a way to get enough power to get away from the gravity well. So, why was she ok with the Titan being destroyed and Jack dying if she needs him.

Yes she is not really the cleverest of Villians is She?

She could have easily beamed Jack out there and made sure the Tiatan got sacked into the Wormhole. Did not make sense at all for her to go awe well sure I will just let them all die including Jack and Picard.

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120419353#Comment_120419353

Yeah just beam him out and then destroy the Titan instead of waiting for it to be crushed by the gravity well. You get everything you need and you don't have to worry about the Titan and its crew becoming a thorn in your side. It is just really bad writing.

eadrom

@Spear --

If there were only 10 changelings at Daystrom, where did the rest come from?

Think she said she was converting more, offering a life of pain and torment for the ability to deceive and get revenage on the Federation.

So then the things that are walking around (including Vadic) are like human/changling hybrids? The human "hosts" are presumably still in there waiting to be rescued by sucking out the change-juice somehow?

The plotting of these things is still really dodgy. They take on so much every time, and just can't pull it off.

ilovesmybrick

Yeah, agree with the previous. Weakest of the season so far, though I'm hoping that it's more to do with setting up for the final three episodes rather than indicative of a weak conclusion. It was slow and very disjointed.

As mentioned, a lot didn't make a whole lot of sense. I didn't particularly mind Vadics interpretation of how the changelings got the cure. It's not entirely wrong, and to be fair this was a federation cure for a genocidal virus they had given the changelings, so I can get that being given the cure might not help engender nice feelings towards the federation. But I will lose my nut if they go back and say this was another section 31 ploy to create these new changelings.

With the initial Jack reading peoples minds I thought maybe something to do with Betazoid DNA being used to fix a something something, or something to do with Picard and the Borg, but the whole controlling others bodies...better have a reasonable explanation for that one because I'm not buying into it at the moment.

I'm not as harsh on Geordi appealing to Data using their friendship, it has precedence in TNG, positive it happened in Descent, and in Generations we saw Data's guilt at letting Geordi get captured, so there is that. And I thought Spiner did a great job switching between Lore and Data. Of course there will be the inevitable betrayal again(temporarily).

The Tuvok scence was pointless.

On the upside, they didn't kill Shaw, for a second I thought he fell out of the turbolift dead!

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120420266#Comment_120420266

I'm not as harsh on Geordi appealing to Data using their friendship, it has precedence in TNG, positive it happened in Descent, and in Generations we saw Data's guilt at letting Geordi get captured, so there is that. And I thought Spiner did a great job switching between Lore and Data. Of course there will be the inevitable betrayal again(temporarily

Yes it did. That is what stopped Data really messing Geordie up in that episode when he was going to destroy his neurons.

The Tuvok scence was pointless.

Agreed.

On the upside, they didn't kill Shaw, for a second I thought he fell out of the turbolift dead!

Yes I thought that two at first and thought well there goes that opportunity for a new show then seen him coming around.

ilovesmybrick

Yes I thought that two at first and thought well there goes that opportunity for a new show then seen him coming around.

@AMKC That would have been a disaster. My immediate second reaction, since it came straight after the potential section 31 stuff, was s**t, are they going to try and use the death of one of the best new characters in Trek at the moment to drag Michelle Yeoh somehow into this time and do something garbage that way. And lets face it, not beyond the bounds of what we've seen the past few years.

corkie

@ilovesmybrick but the whole controlling others bodies...better have a reasonable explanation for that one because I'm not buying into it at the moment.

As they make eye contact, the same red glow in Jack's eyes can be seen in Sidney's, and they are able to read each other's thoughts. Though separated, Jack guides her movements against the lieutenant, allowing her to avoid its attacks while inflicting her own.

So not controlling others?

ilovesmybrick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120420466#Comment_120420466

Not sure, was that a review description or something? Maybe that's the case, but it really wasn't clear to me.

corkie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120420501#Comment_120420501

From the wiki, I linked earlier.

fritzelly

Am I reading what the Face said wrong or is it a different species to the changelings?

ilovesmybrick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120420592#Comment_120420592

I think the insinuation is that Vadic and her changelings are just tools, and can be readily destroyed. I initially thought this meant that the changelings had created some lesser version of themselves better adapted to infiltrate the Federation, we know that they're experts at bio-engineering and genetic manipulation, so wouldn't be too out of bounds for them.

Apparently it's whoever their handler is, so possibly section 31 or some corrupted star fleet group, but I still think it's an OG changeling involved at some stage.

Slydice

To be absolutely clear.. this episode had me from the word Chin'toka 🙂

Good episode. Stakes raised. Going to find out who they are working for now.

What their goal with the federation is. Whatever else they had planned too!

Thought Sidney might have been in trouble there.

Definitely Jack though.. still as wary as episode 2!

TheValeyard

I really enjoyed that episode. Filled in a lit of the blanks.

And I think Vadic is right to seek vengeance. The most dangerous of enemies, the one with a legitimate gripe.

Music worked well.

Not sure what's going on with Jack's sudden powers. Is this something Borg related from Picard ?

Thought the Tuvok cameo worked well for what is was, but hoping real Tuvok hasnt been killed off or anything.

I've a feeling Janeway will be in episode10.

FutureGuy

Oh I'd be stunned if Janeway isn't in the finale

breezy1985

Outside of the Vadic reveal this episode really bored me.

The shoot out really annoyed me. Suddenly everyone is shooting like a stormtrooper and hits disintegrate except when you shoot Vadic or henchman #1 because somehow they can take a bunch of hits.

Whatever is happening to Jack is also getting closer and closer to outright stupid too.

Cookie_Monster

The sudden warping around the galaxy in minutes is annoying, Daystrom station to another system and back in under an hour. Wherever to Chin'toka to earth in under 36 hours?

Makes you wonder why it took Voyager so long to get home 🙄

ItHurtsWhenIP

While it was good getting the Vadic background, I felt like we were back in the nebula, so slow was the pacing of this episode.

@Spear The surprise cameo, well, pseudo cameo, didn't add to the plot in the way Ro Larens did.

The Tuvok cameo, might be useful in the next episodes in that it shows the infiltrators have done a more thorough job in some situations, particularly where they are more established.

@ilovesmybrick With the initial Jack reading peoples minds I thought maybe something to do with Betazoid DNA being used to fix a something something, or something to do with Picard and the Borg, but the whole controlling others bodies...better have a reasonable explanation for that one because I'm not buying into it at the moment.

I was thinking Betazoid influence on Jack too at first, but the red eyes thing doesn't really match. Same with his ninja skills. Could he be a more advanced synth than Picard? 🤔

Evade

A bit of a meh episode. It felt the most like filler of the series it did progress the story a bit but I'd say at least half the episode was pointless. I'm of two minds about super Jack. If the subtitle spoiler from a few episodes ago is right it could pay off but it would be shoehorning too much in. I'm starting to thin Vadic doesn't have a boss and she's just a few drops short of an ocean.

So can we expect a DS9 cameo in the episode titled Kazon/Hirogen/Borg?

breezy1985

Why does Vadic smoke cigars ?

Did she just Google evil villian look on her tricorder ?

Some of the interactions are great between the crew but this series is making no sense to me plot wise outside of a vague Dominion revenge plot.

EltonJohn69

Shaw didn’t do much in the last episode. I would have liked him to go into that turbo lift with Vadic and then emerge on the bridge with her in handcuffs, but of course he just got battered and lost the bridge again.

Stark

Good luck keeping a changeling in handcuffs!

timetogo1

As soon as Seven figured out that Tuvoc was a changeling she told him. That didn't feel like Star Trek. It used to be much smarter than that. In the old days they'd have kept that information to themselves and used it.

Geordie doesn't feel like Geordie too. Maybe it's the eyes :) . I know the character is older but his genius and bravery aren't evident anymore. He doesn't seem too bothered about data either who was his best friend (from what I can remember)

I'm a bit tired of the old theme tunes being played to remind us of older better series too.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120428353#Comment_120428353

Yes and what was the point of shouting questions at the screen risking being traced. Amateur stuff.

Keep cards close to yourself.

corkie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120426780#Comment_120426780

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120428299#Comment_120428299

Episode 3, we had one in handcuffs.

Worf recognizes that Rikka is a Changeling,

https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/comments/1252o5a/the_forgotten_method_to_deal_with_changelings/

Tain presents a device that emits a quantum stasis field which should inhibit Odo's shapeshifting ability. While Lovok is angry that he wasn't informed about this device, Garak does not seem pleased with this news and Tain suggests the Tal Shiar should continue the interrogation. Garak is visibly upset and insists that Odo is his prisoner and that it is his duty and responsibility to question Odo further. Tain agrees, with skepticism.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/The_Die_is_Cast_(episode)

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120428361#Comment_120428361

She could have pretended she didn't know and fed him false information.

My least favourite of this season so far.

Really don't like the whole Data/Lore thing. The storyline has become very difficult to follow IMO. Also a lot of things that dont make sense.

One thing thats been bothering me. Last time we saw Riker he was living happy as Lary with Deanna on a planet with their daughter in Season 1. Now he's at least partially estranged from Deanna due his sense of loss of his son, but that was years ago, so what happened since then?

How did Data-Lore get free and take over the Titan if he was in a stasis pod?

To paraphrase Lily from First Contact Your crew fans are probably used to your orders storylines making sense!

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120431756#Comment_120431756

The Riker/Troi storyline would have been ripped to absolute shreds if it happened in the last 2 seasons but it's amazing how drunk people can get on memberberries.

Dragging Data up again (again) is an absolute disaster of a plotline. His death was about the only good thing from the final episode of season 1.

Evade

The Riker Troi split could easily be explained by her blaming Picard for their son's death and him not.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120432584#Comment_120432584

And him not what?

EltonJohn69

RIKER in season 1 was clearly an alcoholic who was addicted to making pizza, probably just drinking all day listening to jazz and burning pizzas…. he destroyed his marriage with his behaviour

Evade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120433040#Comment_120433040

Not blaming Picard for their son's death.

corkie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120420501#Comment_120420501

Others came to same conclusion as yourself.

Later in the episode, it becomes clear that Jack can do more than just read minds when he inhabits Sidney's body to fight off her Changeling assailant. Jack's impressive combat abilities, signaled by his red eyes, had already been revealed earlier in Star Trek: Picard season 3. However, it goes one step further in "Dominion" when he's able to transfer these skills and his consciousness into Sidney's body when they're separated by the force field designed to hold Vadic and her crew captive. It could be that Jack's abilities to remote control others, rather than his shared DNA with Picard, are what makes him so important to the Changeling plot against Frontier Day.

https://screenrant.com/star-trek-picard-jack-crusher-powers-explained/

Bit of a clickbait article, because they don't explain them.

breezy1985

Theres a growing theory that it's got to do with Dukat (skullface) and/or the Pah-Wraiths but I can't see them go that deep into DS9 territory.

Spear

Parts of this could easily have been the concept for a Sisko series in the same vein as a Picard one, but Avery Brooks wouldn't come back.

I do kinda like the reversal that Jack is irrelevant as the son of Picard, and only useful for whatever his passenger is.

Edit: I had to check, but Kassidy Yeats was pregnant at the end of DS9, making it even easier for this to slot into the DS9 continuity.

ilovesmybrick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120438420#Comment_120438420

I suppose it gets into a ssemantic argument about the difference between controlling/guiding/influencing. Either way it really wasn't clear, especially since it's a rather large jump from premonitions earlier to fully controlling/aiding/assisting anothers actions. Really hope there's a reasonable explanation in the next episode.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120438473#Comment_120438473

I think it would fit DS9 better but Brooks and Meaney are unlikely and 2 of the cast are dead.

Also DS9 never had the wide appeal of TNG or Stewart which thanks to never ending nostalgia is also the same reason this story wasn't just done with a new crew.

Evade

I'm just watching RLM's re:View of episodes 5-7 and I was reminded that there were only 10 Changelings, haven't six or seven of them been killed already?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120445634#Comment_120445634

It's almost like it makes no sense.

Spear

The changeling number was discussed earlier on the thread, and Vadic makes reference to converting others who were willing to join their cause. This is open worded enough to suggest she's modifying solids, not merely the other 9 changeling captives.