You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the Left - read OP

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122656798#Comment_122656798

The thing is that a lot of the people pushing for those things ARE women (both trans and biological).

Not getting into a trans debate here (especially with specific issues I know very little about) , just making a point.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122656978#Comment_122656978

Again - you just laughing at phrases is you not wanting to engage in debate and you not having fully accepted or defined what you think you want.

It sounds like you want to cherry-pick what you personally see as acceptable and permissable and take the piss out everything you don't see as personally valid and that's not the basis on which ANY form of organised rule is formed.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122656978#Comment_122656978

Because otherwise you have a patriarchy (where a subset of society controls it, based on their gender.)

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122656984#Comment_122656984

Can you show me where you are seeing that a lot of women are pushing for those things.

I would be shocked if a lot of women are in favour of losing rights they fought for, but I am interested in where you are getting the information.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122657011#Comment_122657011

And it's perfectly fine to address that with reasonable measures that will encourage better representation, but in the end the women have equal rights and them being 50% of the population will naturally result in that. But forcing it with quotas and the like is wrong.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122657019#Comment_122657019

Sure, but what kind of reasonable measures have yet to be taken?

I think the 'natural' way would be easy access to abortion and contraception for starters, with no weird rules like doctors going to jail in some cases, less restrictive term limits and so on. This will enable more women to be available for the work force and naturally balance out the gender-defined inequities.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122656945#Comment_122656945

I am talking about Ireland and abortion is legal here and the far rights stance on it is one of the biggest reasons they won't get elected, well I hope they don't get elected.

It would be great if common sense was applied and we didn't have any group trying to take back women's rights.

On your other point I don't know a whole lot about out it.

Considering most senior positions are filled by more elder and experienced people than it's not a surprise men hold more of these positions since not so long ago women were kept in the kitchen so to speak.

Certainly in my company their have been a lot more women move into senior positions the last few years and I would expect it to level out as years go on.

If you have proof of companies offering more money when hiring for a job if it's a man then it's something you should report, as far as I know that is illegal.

Can you show me some examples for that statement.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122657035#Comment_122657035

Sure, but what kind of reasonable measures have yet to be taken?

Here in Ireland? All reasonable measures are already taken. Gender quotas will be the start of unreasonable measures. If a party wants to impose their internal gender quotas then that's fine, but this should not come from the government or laws. As you said the the section about access to abortion and contraception, enabling women is a good goal, forcing them in isn't.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122657047#Comment_122657047

Can give you a whole report even: The gender pay gap report

Quote:

"The gender pay gap is the difference in the average hourly salary of women and men across an organisation. The Gender Pay Gap Information Act 2021 obliges this department to report on our hourly gender pay gap across a range of metrics.
Our snapshot date for the purposes of this report was 30th June 2023:
•
This year, our mean gender pay gap has reduced by 6.72%, from 20.42% in 2022 to 13.70% in 2023. Our results show that female staff members earn 13.7% less than their male counterparts, equating to a €5.09 difference in the mean hourly rate of pay.
•
Our overall median gender pay gap has reduced by 6.67%, from 20.79% in 2022 to 14.12% in 2023. There is a €4.82 difference in the median hourly rate between male and female staff members"

https://assets.gov.ie/279281/cd365198-e093-46f0-ba4e-3acc6cf92503.pdf

At least it's reducing - though, as the reduction started relatively recently, there were many decades of inequity probably worse than it is today.

As for workforce representation overall:

Note 'professional and technical grades.' And, although the patter is similar in university grads, STEM is something like 25% women/75% men, but note the employment story - 93% men - a patriarchy.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122657082#Comment_122657082

Yes it is reducing just like I said above about women will take up more prominent positions as time goes on.

Men have been in the workforce longer and in higher positions they will be big earners so of course they will earn more on average now.

That will again close as time goes on.

Now if you can show me jobs where men are offered a higher salary when the company is hiring.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122657012#Comment_122657012

You're thinking of the TERF commnunity who are against it.

Beyond that I'm not sure how to prove what you want? I mean a lot of it would be anectoal or personal but that doesn't really mean anything.

A lot of the support comes from all over the LGBT community a lot of whom are women. Are you looking for a survey (because I don't think one's ever been done), or are we just going to assuming that it's only men who are in favour of this until proven otherwise?

And if it IS all men, doesn't this prove the existence of the patriarchy?

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122657143#Comment_122657143

You claimed a lot of women are in favour of erosion of their rights.

I would say it's highly unlikely a lot of women want biological men in sports, safe spaces or to be referred to as birthing person.

You claimed a lot of women would be in favour of this, I find it bizarre so I'm asking where you are getting that information.

What is your definition of TERF, if a woman says she doesn't want to be called a birthing person, does that make that woman a TERF?

When you say support from women in the LGBT community are you talking about biological women or biological men who identify as women?

I don't think many men would want the mother of their child referred to as a birthing person, I am not sure what you are about.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122657172#Comment_122657172

No, I claimed a lot of women are in favour of trans rights.

I did not say most of or all of, I said a lot of.

TERF - a woman who dos not see a transwoman as female

The LGBT women are from both groups

You brought up "birthing position" as I hardly ever hear the phrase. "Vagina-bearer" is more common. Not one that I use myself, trying to answer your point. Nor am I saying that your phrase doesn't exist, I'm sure it does.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122657105#Comment_122657105

https://www.irishjobs.ie/careeradvice/female-graduates-expect-to-earn-11-less-than-male-counterparts/

This is starting jobs. So, nothing to do with being in the work force for a long time.

Why are so few women graduating with STEM degrees versus men?

whatever.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122656398#Comment_122656398

It's South Africa I expect. The industrial base is in danger of collapsing and never recovering because of rules on black participation. Instead of investing in education and training the criteria for a role is almost entirely skin colour, tribal background is also a factor but technical ability is almost not a criteria anymore

whatever.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122656945#Comment_122656945

Are you going to enforce the firing of countless female Doctors, Nurses, actually all healthcare plus education professionals because those sectors are female dominated

What are you going to tell the women who have to give up their highly skilled roles for men to accomplish your ideology

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122657272#Comment_122657272

A gender pay gap of 7% was observed in the Business & Economics sector, with men expecting an average salary of €39,264 and women expecting to earn €36,403.

That to me reads like jobs are advertised with a starting salary of €35 - 40 k, men will ask for the 40, women are more likely to accept 35

(Edit, I didn't even get to the next paragraph, which explains it better)

Workplace Priorities

The data also shows clear differences in workplace priorities between male and female students. Female students put a greater emphasis on job security (1st) and a friendly work environment (2nd) in career preferences, while male students are more focused on financial compensation in the form of high future earnings (1st) and a competitive base salary (2nd).

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122658465#Comment_122658465

Errm, there's an oversupply of skilled employees today for those positions? As far as I know, most countries including Ireland are desperate. Your fantasy negative outcome is just that.

Tony EH

A lot of the "gender pay gap" comes from companies using sleight of hand during the hiring process where they get the prospective employee to name their salary. Males, more often than not, will go for a higher rate, whereas females will tend to be more conservative in their approach (perhaps sensibly too). I've seen it numerous times amongst my female friends and even my wife, who often low ball their salary expectations. She's just done it again with another job she was interested in. This leads to a perception that there's one tier for men and one for women and that men are just "paid more" for the same job.

BTW, as an aside, I think that companies should be banned from that type of practice. It's a scummy way to pressurise people into low balling themselves in the hope that they land the job. Companies should be made to include their salary on the job advertisement and should also be made to write clear and honest job advertisements. Frankly, there's a lot of "practices" that companies engage in that they should be banned from using during a hiring process and HR should not be the first port of call when you apply for a job.

nullzero

You've got to love the left.

When there's no actual evidence to support their opinions they double down on their opinions and their perceptions of how they feel that things happen.

If anyone else enagaed in such behaviour they'd be all over them calling them all sorts of names and ridiculing them.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122660331#Comment_122660331

Yes, if only we could do that, globaly.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122660116#Comment_122660116

You mean in this thread or gernerally?

whatever.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122658627#Comment_122658627

It's your fantasy to have 50% share. As far as oversupply that's an incredulous statement, there is a distinct lack of personal for such skilled roles.

In skilled positions where there is less pressure but dominance of positions by women how you going to fire them or bar them from the positions and explain to them it's not sexist but because of their sex

Tell us how

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122661160#Comment_122661160

Perhaps you misunderstood. There isn't an oversupply of skilled staff - there's an undersupply. No one is going to fire some to make room to make some quota. That is the fantasy I'm ridiculing. Are there enough nurses? No. Will someone propose firing them to make more room for men? Laughable.

And no one's answered my question, why aren't there more female STEM grads? What could be preventing that?

whatever.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122661196#Comment_122661196

I didn't misunderstand anything you specifically stated an 'oversupply'

You still haven't explained how you get to 50% with nurses as you say without denying women skilled positions simply because they are women to make room for men

Back up your proposal or admit it's egregious sexism

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122661211#Comment_122661211

Answer is obvious. More positions opened. Plenty of work for all == lots of jobs for men and women.

Lesson to self: don't be sarcastic without the /s.

How do we get to a 50% ratio for doctors, engineers and scientists in your view so? And, won't we need more STEM grads as a result? How do you address that problem?

whatever.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122661226#Comment_122661226

With the more positions how do you correct the ratio without discriminating against women for the benefit of men

With regard to where there is not plenty of work do you completely bar women from being hired to benefit men

I don't need to explain anything, this is your ideology

Tell us how you are not going to be sexist

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122661196#Comment_122661196

And no one's answered my question, why aren't there more female STEM grads?

Choice, simple as

Quazzie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122661196#Comment_122661196

The obvious solution is that hospitals in Ireland should only be allowed hire make nurses until the quota is met. That was no one gets fired but we meet gender quotas.

Also regarding your question about STEM, the answer is simple, more males seem to be interested in those courses against females when leaving schools.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122661196#Comment_122661196

And no one's answered my question, why aren't there more female STEM grads? What could be preventing that?

Because STEMs a sausage-fest, is why. In just the same way as men aren't attracted to professions dominated by women, women aren't attracted to professions dominated by men:

Mens Rights Thread - Page 102 — boards.ie - Now Ye're Talkin'

Mens Rights Thread - Page 102 — boards.ie - Now Ye're Talkin'