You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the Left - read OP

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762243#Comment_120762243

Yeah - prioritised - butvyour claim implies that they should be ignored.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762480#Comment_120762480

Someone else made that claim. I just replued to it

That said the Irish establishment is still scated of them (no idea why).

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120763794#Comment_120763794

I never said that.

Why do some people here feel compelled to purposefully misrepresent others?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120764091#Comment_120764091

Was your point not that we should do other things instead? Should we do these other things at the expense of my suggestion, or at the expense of ALL other issues?

If just mine - why? Why just that? Why should this be unprioritised?

If all others. Then yes ypu did.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120764091#Comment_120764091

With all due respect: He didn't say you "said" it, he said you "implied" it.

(Why do some people here feel compelled to purposefully misrepresent others?)

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120764324#Comment_120764324

My point was that while issues of greater importance exist they should take precedence.

I have no problem with removing ties to the church in the education system when it's practical to do so.

You stated that I said that the issue should be ignored, I never said that at all.

I'll await your apology.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120761318#Comment_120761318

I think we fully understand each other on principles here.

My commiserations to Ireland regarding the establishment of a state religion to such an insipid degree.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120764406#Comment_120764406

It's a crap situation but the bottle neck is substantial in this case unfortunately.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120764396#Comment_120764396

You made NO reference to the point I made. It could be copied and pasted and used to.counter any - and every - issue anyone raised.

It was dismissive because it was all.you gad and deliberately vague. So no - no apology. You know this.

Now either respond to the point I made specifically, or I'll accept your submission.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120764641#Comment_120764641

Because I didn't coddle your suggestion I therefore dismissed the value of tackling the issue at any point?

Jesus Princess, just because I didn't validate your opinion it doesn't mean you can accuse me of things I've done nothing to associate myself with.

You crossed a line saying it what you said, if you don't want to apologise that's your problem but I've lost respect for you as a result.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120764662#Comment_120764662

No reference to point again, just condescending ad homeonems.

Next time, if you can't respond to a point, don't. Your just wasting time.

Were done here.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120763813#Comment_120763813

Here is a direct quote from you

“Nowadays, they've lost most of their influence, but people still believe the message”

I don’t see how you believe an organisation that has lost most of their influence can still murder ( again your words) 800 children with impunity.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120766183#Comment_120766183

Don't remember that, but my apologies - if I did I did.

In answer to your question, though as I said earlier: it's because the State is scared of them.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120766183#Comment_120766183

Really? I don’t see how you CAN’T believe that an organisation that hid over 800 bodies for that long that only came to light because of a local historian doesn’t have any influence nowadays.

Also, they definitely had the power and the influence to cover up over 800 deaths at the time that it happened. And that’s also only one place, the deaths they covered up of infants could easily be in the thousands.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120766370#Comment_120766370

And the sale of babies. And the fact that the other M&B homes haven't been dealt with (Bessborough). And the Magdalene laundries for which the RCC still owes money.

WRT to the Tuam investigation, how long has the State dawdled on getting some forensic archaeologists in place excavating? It still needs to happen, and the remains are disintegrating fast. Very convenient for the RCC.

The RCC has enormous influence; schools, hospitals, government. Despite a decline in mass-goers, they have so much unaccounted for wealth they pretty much can do as they please. At best they pay a pittance in fines.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767086#Comment_120767086

The Catholic church only has influence as a lot of parent prefer to send their kids to Catholic patroned schools, have their kids baptised and have weddings in their churchs. Apart from that though with the most recent pope visit being a damp squib and the two referendums going against church teachings I dont think the church feels that powerful, definitely much reduced from the first 90 years of this state.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767346#Comment_120767346

*bangs head off wall*

My kid (unbaptised) attends Catholic School as there is no choice in my area.

89% of schools are Catholic.

Baptisms are culturally ingrained (and I wish they weren’t!) but it is what it is. My sister got her kids baptised to get into the local school, even though I told her the law changed. She didn’t trust that her kids would get in, so got them baptised anyway.

People don’t necessarily prefer to send their kids to Catholic School, but at 89% patronage, we don’t have a choice.

I think the church knows it’s days are numbered, but they don’t care. They still own the land so can operate however they want, and that’s all that counts to them.

I would love to see no baptisms (of any religion, but especially ones that won’t let you leave - ever) until the kid is 18. That way they can “officially” make up their own minds. I’m sure we’d have people in uproar, but so honestly don’t care. We have failed the children of this country so often, we could do something good by not getting them trapped in the Church’s web.

Goldengirl

Yes. State ( Bertie's gang) did a deal with the Catholic Church back in the noughties (2002 )which restricted the amount of reparation money the Catholic Church had to pay for any abuse .

Sure they're probably doing novels for Bertie now to get him into the Áras .

In fact the church haven't even paid out that restricted amount of redress yet ..

Irish Mirror

https://www.irishmirror.ie › news

Government left €235.6 million short of redress by religious orders in whose care children were abused.

This shows the appetite the state has for chasing these criminal defaulters down for this or anything else .

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767402#Comment_120767402

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767405#Comment_120767405

Christ my brain hurts. This thread is supposed to be about the perceived threat of some danger coming from ‘The Left’, and the last few pages have been about y’know, the whole Church thing, but then nullzero who was complaining earlier in the thread about the left’s political representation in the Dáil, comes out with this -

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120761551#Comment_120761551

It’s as though this whole nonsense notion of ‘The Left’ being any sort of a threat is being made up just to rabble-rouse!

Nahhhh, hardly? 🤔

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767460#Comment_120767460

I think the problem for people who are supporting the idea of a threat from the Left is that they mostly have to use examples from either the US or UK to highlight where the Left has got too far. Socially, I think the Irish are mostly Left of Centre outside of perhaps the immigration issue. It doesnt help that the immigration issue became more precedent during a time when FF/FG were in power- so not when dyed in the wool Leftists are in power. They cant point to trans issues in schools as the only teacher that seemed to be falling foul of that issue is Enoch, who is the worst poster boy for any cause, ever.

If Sinn Fein get into power, I think the Left will be seen as a bigger threat but maybe they will actually introduce a building campaign for social housing and prove me wrong.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767803#Comment_120767803

If they do fix the housing issue, there’ll be a lot of people in negative equity as house prices are probably at least 50% over value, due to demand (at a complete guess)?

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767824#Comment_120767824

At a certain stage you have to support those trying to buy a single house to live in over those involved in property speculation. it is perhaps a left wing economic policy that most would support.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767402#Comment_120767402

Why stop at not allowing children to join a religion until they are 18?

Surely a curriculum that they may or may not agree with should not be imposed on them until they are 18.

Also sports. It’s so damaging to children being forcibly made members of sporting organisations like the GAA, FAI, swimming before the age of 18, after which they can officially make up their own mind.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767875#Comment_120767875

Im against Atheism being forced on kids but this is one of the worst bad faith arguments I've read in a long time, no pun intended. Exercise is good for the body, it has no downsides and doesn't involve a belief system. How can you compare that for someone from the age of 4 to usually as a minimum 12 years old being repeatedly taught dogma that they should unquestionably believe in a supernatural being that is monitoring and judging them based on rules set out 2,000 years ago. Substitute religion with say communism and I'd say you would be against kids being taught that topic in the same manner.

ancapailldorcha

So, exercise is now a danger from the left? FFS.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767948#Comment_120767948

The only bad faith argument here is your own.

The poster suggested baptisms should not be allowed until an individual reaches the age of majority, 18.

Parents make decisions on behalf of their children and enroll them in organisations before the age of 18 all the time but the only such decision the poster takes exception to is in terms of religion.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767948#Comment_120767948

Flaneur isn’t suggesting forcing atheism on children, they’re making the suggestion that membership of a religious community should be a matter for the individual alone upon reaching the age of 18. It’s completely impractical for numerous reasons of course (not the least of which is that it is the parents who would make any such decisions), but I get where they’re coming from.

SS is obviously highlighting the ridiculous nature of such an argument by suggesting why stop at religion? Why not sports, membership of other clubs and associations, etc…

Essentially - “Child, raise thyself!”

It’s an impractical argument from any perspective as nobody is going to agree that children should raise themselves.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120768203#Comment_120768203

One is a belief system, the other is a member of a sporting organization. How can you seriously compare them? The GAA doesnt involve a belief in something supernatural, throwing logic out the window.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120768207#Comment_120768207

It is not comparable though that is why i chose the communism example, that actually happened in the soviet union. One involves being taught over many years to believe in something that is not scientific or logic based, the other is exercising your body.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120768269#Comment_120768269

They’re both organisations, and they have associated activities and all the rest of it. One memorable description was the ‘Catholic Pilates’ referring to mass 😂

I’m guessing SS probably isn’t comparing them on the basis of the rampant abuse of children within the organisations they referred to, because they left out the Scouts!