You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the Left - read OP

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120356180#Comment_120356180

Thats what years of taking ganja will do, but I doubt he will be there after the next election seeing as he turned on the very people he needs to vote for him.

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120363745#Comment_120363745

He didn't turn on anyone. Fascist scum are not welcome and he did the right thing and stood up to that. Very commendable. Let the scum go back to their fake migrant crime stories like Dungarvan.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120363712#Comment_120363712

Didn't the guy who killed the Detective Garda who was sentenced today (Stephen Silver, was all over the news at dinner time) cite the George Floyd, BLM situation as justification for him emptying a clip of bullets into that man?

I'm pretty sure had he been a looney of the right wing variety more would have been made of his political leanings during his trial.

Edit. Just want to clarify that I'm not trivialising that case for point scoring. The whole thing as awful.

nullzero

..

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120363824#Comment_120363824

The far right element at he protests was very small, most of them were ordinary local people concerned about unvetted males coming into their communities and their fears were well founded based on assaults that have been happening but ignored by the lib media.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120363824#Comment_120363824

This Lineker like “everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler” isn’t landing anymore.

And constantly using the word scum to describe and demonise people you don’t agree with is actually what is really like language used in “1930’s Germany”

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120365508#Comment_120365508

Most of the assaults are made up by those scumbags and people are starting to see that thankfully. We've seen those things pushed on here too. You yourself have stated every refugee is a liar and economic migrant which says it all about you.

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120365810#Comment_120365810

Scumbag fascists will get called such. Sorry if it struck a nerve.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120365810#Comment_120365810

So the nazi's were the real victims all along?

Here's the thing about nazi's and totalitarian states. They targeted people because of what they were.

They hated jewish people because they were jewish. It didn't matter what their political beliefs were, or even their religious beliefs. They hated them just for existing. It's not something that they could ever stop being. If they changed religion, changed their names, it didn't matter.

People who were anti nazi hated the nazi's but because of what the nazi's believed. They didn't care what they were, the cared who they were.

The alt right in the culture war go after gay people. They go after trans people. They go after emigrants and people of different races. They go after women. They want to remove or restrict the rights those people have. It doesn't matter how nice those people are. It doesn't matter how harmless they are. It's what they are that matters to right wingers, not who they are.

And a key point of the nazi's beliefs is that they targeted certain groups and scapegoated them. See that group? they're the reason your life is crap. They're the source of your pain. We need to get rid of them. Once they're gone, the country will be so much better.

So yes, the language around migrants is very much like the language that nazi's used. And calling that out doesn't make someone totalitarian. it makes them the enemy of totalitarianism

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120368720#Comment_120368720

The first sentence of this post isn't based in anything resembling fact.

To be honest I'm confused as to where to drew that conclusion from (that Nazis were the victims all along).

This thread isn't about Far Right v Far Left. It's about the fact that the far left pose a risk also. In fact we have far left politicians in the Dail right now spouting wacky things about potential far right coups and whatever other fever dreams they decide to commit to paper or any other medium. These people could realistically form part of a coalition government in the near future. Yet we're led to believe that the miniscule number of far right activists in Ireland are the real problem which is nonsense.

If you want to have a go at the far right I'll nod along in agreement but ignoring the insanity of the far left is a mistake and one that could be extremely costly to this country in the short to medium term.

The Irish left need a far right to rail against, but this also masks their own short comings, because we're not predisposed to far right ideology in Ireland the spectre of it horrifies us and that spectre is raised by the left so we end up focusing on the awful far right and not on the left and their insanity.

Run Forest Run

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120368720#Comment_120368720

Labelling people as Nazis because they're against illegal immigration and would like stronger measures to tackle it, is needlessly aggressive language that only serves to polarize and divide groups of people in society. Something the Nazis themselves were very keen on...

Apart from anything else, it's a pointless strategy. It achieves nothing worthwhile... when you throw around these lazy generalizations, you've clearly lost the argument. And you actually feed the sort of movements that you claim to dislike. When people see the left behaving like morons, with these sort of brain dead opinions, it doesn't drive more people towards their loony worldview.

We are creating deeply polarized societies. And the worst part about it, is that so many people not only don't seem to care about the long term consequences of this, but in fact are actually enjoying the tribalism.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120368720#Comment_120368720

Except that’s not what I said at all and you know that.

Pretending people said things they didn’t and pretending people are nazis when they’re not is all part of the basic tactics of liberalism these days. It’s easier to shut down discussions because you can’t accept pluralism. You see everybody as with you or against you.

You think you’re heroes, on some sort of crusade of righteousness. But instead you go around acting like the people you imagine you’re fighting. Low brow, low calibre, low tolerance, low class group think. Tipping at windmills on the internet.

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120369400#Comment_120369400

We know that people on the far right will do anything to downplay the far right so that it appears like there is no far right in existence. We have actually seen that leaked from telegram chats of the far right in this country. One of their biggest aims is to downplay the far right on twitter and forums. So it's quite suspect when someone comes along with that exact M.O.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120369420#Comment_120369420

The only response you have is to label me far right. You proved my point. An absolute parody of yourself. I’ll leave it there.

BruteStock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120369420#Comment_120369420

People who think the government should focus on the housing crisis first and mass migration second = far right 😬😬

francois

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120369579#Comment_120369579

Strawman central

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120369420#Comment_120369420

Nobody has said the far right don't exist.

We're illustrating that the far left exist and are enjoying a greater amount of support than the far right could dream of in Ireland.

Take the 2020 General election for an actual measure of the support for left/far left versus the far right in Ireland. More than 40% of the votes cast were for left/far left parties (Sinn Fein, Labour, Greens, Doc Dems, PBP Solidarity).

The right accounted for 0.5% of votes cast (Renua who are no longer a real entity , Irish Freedom and the National Party). Only one of those parties (National Party) are an avowed far right party.

Even if we take just the extremes, the far left PBP solidarity vote was 57,420 (2.6%). The Far right National Party vote was 4773 (0.2%).

This demonstrates that just accounting for the extreme ends of the political spectrum the far left is massively out muscling the far right in Ireland with no sign of any gains being made by the far right.

This demonstrates that what you are describing above is little more than scaremongering.

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120365508#Comment_120365508

The Garda addressed this yesterday...

"And the force also said there was a significant amount of fake news circulating – and reminded people that they are the only body responsible for law and order in Ireland.

A Garda spokesman said: “An Garda Síochána does not comment on third party material posted online.

“An Garda Síochána in Dungarvan is not investigating any other similar alleged assaults at this time nor are Gardaí aware of any alleged spate of attacks by foreign nationals as suggested.“An Garda Síochána is acutely aware of the significant volume of misinformation, disinformation and fake news in circulation in relation to public safety."

Unless of course you have any evidence to back up your claim.

Rothko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120368720#Comment_120368720

"So the nazi's were the real victims all along?"

"So, what you're saying is...."

growleaves

Lol @ thread title

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120369608#Comment_120369608

Take the 2020 General election for an actual measure of the support for left/far left versus the far right in Ireland. More than 40% of the votes cast were for left/far left parties (Sinn Fein, Labour, Greens, Doc Dems, PBP Solidarity).

You just label these parties far left. I label them far right. See how easy that is.

Can you substantiate how each of these parties is "far left" and how that delineates from simply "the left" "the sort of left" and "the middle?" etc.

Your thesis seems to hinge on defining this well.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120369918#Comment_120369918

They classify themselves and are identified by their policies/manifestos as centre left, left and far left.

People Before Profit are the far left element, one of their TDs recently proposed that the ruling parties are far right, are organising grass roots far right activism and are preparing to use the Gardai and Defence Forces to launch an armed coup in the event of a left wing government being elected.

Irish politics over the last decade has been fiscally right of centre and socially left of centre whilst being led by slightly right of centre parties in FG and latterly FF. The less progressive elements of FG split and formed Renua, but that entity is essentially a husk at this point.

I'm not pulling these things out of thin air, these aren't my opinions and I'm not sharing a thesis. These are facts.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120369952#Comment_120369952

They classify themselves and are identified by their policies/manifestos as centre left, left and far left.

Can you please link to these manifestos you have indicated, thank you.

People Before Profit are the far left element, one of their TDs recently proposed that the ruling parties are far right, are organising grass roots far right activism and are preparing to use the Gardai and Defence Forces to launch an armed coup in the event of a left wing government being elected.

This seems like its paraphrased, what's the source for all this, and how does calling something out as far right make them far left?

By that logic, you're as far right as they get, for calling out a far left. Bananas, right?

Irish politics over the last decade has been fiscally right of centre and socially left of centre whilst being led by slightly right of centre parties in FG and latterly FF. 

Needs citation and substantiation. How do we verify these policies were all indeed fiscally right of centre and socially left of centre. And how does that make the other entities who are not FG or FF "far left" - it's not a zero sum game, you can have as many moderate parties as there are stars in the sky. The existence of an allegedly middling FG or FF does not make SF or whomever else, by exclusion, the far left.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120369968#Comment_120369968

No. You have an internet connection find them yourself. I'm not your butler.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120369975#Comment_120369975

You made the claim. Your burden of proof.

What you say without evidence will be dismissed without evidence.

Clearly, these entities are not the far left based upon their manifestos or you would be more than capable of proving your point. A failure of you to prove your point is not a homework assignment of mine - I'm not your butler.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120369988#Comment_120369988

I didn't make a claim. I stated a widely accepted fact.

Your lack of understanding of Irish politics doesn't put any burden on me to furnish you with anything.

Just two days ago Paul Murphy was in the papers talking about his new born child (I'm not commenting on that story BTW) and how being a socialist activist made him feel having kids wasn't something he'd ever do because he was always so busy with his socialist activism.

You think I'm paraphrasing Gino Kenny talking about FF and FG using the Gardai and Defence Forces launching a coup against a left wing government? The man was on national radio two weeks ago talking about it at ten to nine in the morning on Newstalk breakfast. Newstalk have their shows archived online so go and listen to it.

I also never stated Sinn Fein, Labour, Social Democrats are far left, the only group that identify as such are Solidarity People Before Profit. The others are centre left to left wing.

It's not on me to prove obvious truths to you, everything I've said here is easily proved to be factual if you care to look.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120370021#Comment_120370021

I didn't make a claim. I stated a widely accepted fact.

Widely accepted by whom?

Your level of argument is like someone shouting the Democrats are a far left party (which is a laughable statement). You'd actually want to be able to substantiate how exactly your labels stick properly to each of these. If you can't, that's fine, you picked an uphill battle today trying to make boogeymen of the far left from which there is apparently no dangers coming.

Any political activism can take up enormous amounts of personal time. Is not wanting kids evidence of being far left?

Socialism is such a broad stroke that's simply 'left' to me, not 'far left.' Unless you know of Paul Murphy's intention to seize the means of production and collectivizing private property? That's Bernie left, not burn down Milwaukee, occupy Portland far left.

Newstalk have their shows archived online so go and listen to it.

Then it should be easy for you to prove your own claim. Dismissed without evidence.

I also never stated Sinn Fein, Labour, Social Democrats are far left, the only group that identify as such are Solidarity People Before Profit. The others are centre left to left wing.

In case you forgot what you said:

"Take the 2020 General election for an actual measure of the support for left/far left versus the far right in Ireland. More than 40% of the votes cast were for left/far left parties (Sinn Fein, Labour, Greens, Doc Dems, PBP Solidarity)."

By lumping them all together you made no effective distinction between the 2 classes of "left" and left it as a labor for the reader to interpret which of these groups are left and which are "far left" from your single parenthesized data set.

It's not on me to prove obvious truths to you, everything I've said here is easily proved to be factual if you care to look.

But it's an online discussion and I literally don't have the care or the onus to look. The burden of proof lies with the claimants. Why should the person making the argument be expected to put in less work than the person listening? I must remember next time I sit down for someone's dissertation defense to come prepared with their slides and samples.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120370036#Comment_120370036

If I told you McDonald's sold hamburgers you'd ask me for evidence.

I'm not talking about things that aren't easily substantiated so your nonsense about burden of proof holds absolutely no water. Use Google find these things for yourself.

I could post all the things you're asking for and you still wouldn't be satisfied, so why bother with the exercise?

It's not like I'm saying something extraordinary that requires proof to be entertained on any level, these are things the dogs on the street know.

You mentioned the Democrats for some reason, this isn't a discussion about American politics so why you're talking about laughable descriptions for America political parties is beyond me.

You're challenging the notion that any of the parties listed are left wing, Where's your evidence?

We don't get to demand the bleeding obvious from each other on this site. This isn't a court of law or a debating society.

The way you're reacting to this is more akin to asking for evidence when someone claims they've seen a UFO or bigfoot. All I've done is offer accepted discriptions of political parties and you're acting like it's unacceptable to do so.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120370111#Comment_120370111

If I told you McDonald's sold hamburgers you'd ask me for evidence.

If you told me they sold them in India I'd certainly have an ask.

https://mcdindia.com/#happymeal-app

Also,

https://nypost.com/2016/09/16/mcdonalds-opens-a-restaurant-that-doesnt-sell-a-single-burger-or-fry/

How dare we be scrutable - we might learn something new!

I'm not talking about things that aren't easily substantiated so your nonsense about burden of proof holds absolutely no water. Use Google find these things for yourself.

Simply stating you don't have a burden of proof doesn't mean you don't. Simply saying it's easily substantiated doesn't mean it has been - as demonstrated by your lack of being able to substantiate it so easily, now instead just filibustering rather than substantiating.

You wish to make an argument that dangers are coming from the far left and your most impressionable and substantiated example thus far has been Paul Murphy having a baby. And your 2nd best attempt is waving at a parenthesized set of parties and saying 'yep, they're the danger' and scoffing that such a weak argument is being quite modestly challenged for soundness and we've found it lacking.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120370132#Comment_120370132

Paul Murphy having a baby = dangers coming from the left?

Who is this "we" that has found my "argument" lacking exactly?

I haven't made any argument, I posted election results of left leaning to far left parties and compared them to the far right parties and their results.

I used facts to illustrate the difference in support for these two ideologies in Ireland and nothing more.

According to you I need to prove these parties do as much as glance in the direction of left wing ideology in order for these facts to be acceptable to you.

All I'm seeing is an unrealistic set of demands from an openly hostile and condescending individual you for some reason has taken to referring to themselves as "we".