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Is it a bit disrespectful to excercise a dog at the grounds of a war memorial ?

  • 09-03-2023 8:11pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,765 ✭✭✭


    I was wondering others opinion

    I happened to visit the national war memorial garden in dublin a fewvt8mes recently. Every time i visited ,there were dogs there with their owners. One time with a Frisbee, another time a dog was lifted 5 feet to play in one of the empty fountains, another time a big Alsatian walking through the rose garden area


    Would you consider that a bit disrespectful or would you consider it much ado about nothing

    Is it a bit disrespectful to excercise a dog at the grounds of a war memorial ? 155 votes

    Disrespectful
    19%
    BrianD3jackofalltradesNeilwJupiterKidStrummsMrs OBumblecoolbeanscallaway92mountainJamBurbigwillieSchnookseasygoing39SVI40HorseSeafrancis1978mattserwhisky_galoreRollieFingerspgj2015 30 votes
    Not Disrespectful
    80%
    SpearjhegartyAnnasopralintdrummerPherekydesKilOitmobbyhighdefGregor SamsaionapaulCatInABoxGaspodeNermalchubba1984Macker1yoyodam099Iompairphill106CrookedJack 125 votes


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    Not Disrespectful

    Why would it be disrespectful? Dogs have served in wars for a long time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,765 ✭✭✭sxt


    It just wouldn't feel right to me to bring my dog to a place like that to play



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 609 ✭✭✭HazeDoll


    Not Disrespectful

    Such a strange thought process.

    Baffling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,393 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    As long as they pick up dog feces I can't see a problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,975 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Yes it is imo. No one should be playing frisbee at a war memorial or messing around in the water fountains.

    But it is so normal now for people to draw a blank when it comes to any sense of the sacred that I wouldn't get too worked up about it.

    Exiting this thread now before some mouth-breather asks me for "evidence" that war memorials are meant to be treated with an aura of silent dignity.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Disrespectful

    No problem with walking a dog, but throwing frisbees around is not appropriate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    Not Disrespectful

    Would you be ok with people playing on the green or enjoying themselves?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭spakman




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Disrespectful

    Why wouldn’t I ? We are discussing a war ‘memorial’ as opposed to a green though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭pauliebdub


    Not Disrespectful

    It's a nice park and people are free to use it to walk dogs and have picnics and generally to just to relax. I don't think many people go there to bow their heads and contemplate the devastation and loss of world war 1.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 948 ✭✭✭thegame983


    Not Disrespectful

    Soldiers are made of sterner stuff. I'm pretty sure they would be fine with it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,426 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    My sister had her wedding photographs taken there on a bitterly cold November day ,

    one of pictures is of herself on her own taken in black and white,

    weeks later when she collected her album , in the background of her black and white picture , there was a ghostly image in the distance of a WW1 soldier,

    and a dog , with a frisbee.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭Deregos.


    By that logic we should ban all children from going anywhere near the monument, especially if they're happily running around playing hide and seek.

    You'd prefer to see that we all bow our heads in faux solemn grief as we slowly trudge by . . . Nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    Not Disrespectful

    We don't have a military we sent on imperial escapades, so no need to make up fairy stories about heroic cannon fodder or hide behind pious tabloid jingoism around military monuments.

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,140 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    Not Disrespectful

    The Heritage Ireland website (The OPW's heritage section) has a "Restrictions" tab for each location that they manage.

    The page for the National War Memorial Gardens (https://heritageireland.ie/places-to-visit/irish-national-war-memorial-gardens/) mention no restrictions.

    Some others, such as The Garden of Remembrance (https://heritageireland.ie/visit/places-to-visit/garden-of-remembrance/) say "Assistance Dogs Only" or "Dogs On Lead" (Grangegorman Military Cemetery: https://heritageireland.ie/visit/places-to-visit/grangegorman-military-cemetery/)

    Obviously people can have their own opinions, but the body that manages the Gardens clearly have no issue with dogs being there. That said, the presence of dogs and the behaviour of dogs are two different things. One should always be sure that one's dog behaves in a respectful way anywhere in public.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,765 ✭✭✭sxt


    There is definitely at least one "no dogs allowed " sign at one of the entrances to this area, I presume there are more...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,140 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    Not Disrespectful

    Google Street View shows an "All Dogs Must Be Kept on Leads" sign




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,765 ✭✭✭sxt




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,239 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Not Disrespectful

    I regularly walk my dog in the war memorials (early) and have for many years. Rarely go to the actual war memorial part at the top...but I do occasionally...I don't see what the issue is?! I pick up after my dog obviously I am not an absolute tosser.

    During the summer people regularly drink, play games (even play music...which is a bit annoying to me tbh because the music is awful) etc in that part is that disrespectful too? Are you going to give out to them?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,503 ✭✭✭Riddle101


    Not Disrespectful

    Bring a dog for a walk in the memorial park sure, but just try to be sensible about it. Playing frisbee or letting them play in a water fountain is a bit too much, and make sure to clean up if it goes to the toilet. Other than that, as long as it's kept on a leash and is well behaved then I would have no problem with having dogs in a memorial park.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭85603


    Disrespectful

    Went with disrespectful. But only barely. I probably wouldnt notice without it being pointed out.

    As a rule the public will always eventually end up taking the piss. There will have been a time where having the dog in the fountain was a bit much.

    Next it will be a barbeque and some bluetooth speakers, only having some craic like, whats the problem ye spoilsport.

    So yeah, if theres to be a line drawn at all then its probably around about now, or just dont bother and redesignate it as a barbeque disco park.

    If its a memorial then the whole point is for it to be a place of a certain separate atmosphere. If its to be a barbeque disco park then fair enough, but just put the memorial somewhere else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,448 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    Not Disrespectful

    I would guess,that soldiers would be glad to see happy people and their pets..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,950 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Disrespectful

    Being cynical, people may have more of a problem with someone playing with a dog in the Garden of Remembrance as opposed to the War Memorial Gardens...some conflicts seem to matter more than others.

    Anyhow many people with "fur babies" seem to ignore signage telling them to have their "babies" on leads in designated areas. Ah but my "doggo" is very well trained...cue owner shouting themselves hoarse while dog gleefully ignores them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Not Disrespectful

    ........

    Post edited by Graces7 on


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,718 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    The people whom we are remembering laughed, played, had dreams and did all the things we do. Do you think they’d want a place dedicated to their memory to be a sad boring place where nobody goes? It would be a God awful place. So enjoy all the park has to offer, but spare a thought and a little prayer, if you wish, for those who did not get share it with you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Not Disrespectful

    Couldn't have said it better, have a great uncle buried there and knowing what little I know of him, I'd be thinking he liked his dogs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,737 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Not Disrespectful

    One of about ten gazillion laws that are routinely broken in Ireland (Hello urban speed limits!!).....


    people in glasshouses etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,965 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Not Disrespectful

    What better way to respect the people who died for the country than to enjoy yourself in said country.

    I would have some serious problems with the behavior of people and their dogs in parks but that's all parks not just the "sacred" ones.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,426 ✭✭✭corner of hells




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  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭artanevilla


    Not Disrespectful

    It's not a graveyard like.

    I'm sure lots of the war dead were dog lovers and would love nothing more that to see dogs having a laugh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,766 ✭✭✭cml387


    Thanks for that, coffee spitting out excepted.

    As a dog owner, I think it would be a bit disrespectful to have a dog widdling up against a memorial.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭85603


    Disrespectful

    From time to time they also would have drank cider, pissed in various bushes and walked around topless with a fag hanging out of their gob kicking a ball to Damo.

    Doesnt mean you should do those things in a memorial area.

    The whole purpose of a memorial park is to be something different than the usual park, where you behave differently than in a normal park. Otherwise they would have just called it 'something park'. Without the 'memorial' bit.

    Almost everyone when asked will say they respect those that fought in the wars associated with the memorial, because words are cheap. And thats the right answer.

    The way to put a price to those words, to prove you actually mean it, is to briefly refrain from walking around barefoot while rolling joints and washing your dog.

    Then again I suppose there will be those who just dont care, and dont care if its known they dont care. Just the way things are going. The original builders probably should have foreseen that putting an enjoyable facility in a public area would lead to people eventually doing whatever they feel like.

    Is there any area which you can design as a memorial which wont be taken over. I was thinking of a memorial room, at the top of a long stair case, but theyd just start doing coke in it. Memorial lake? Jetskis.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,222 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Not Disrespectful

    The green line is the Gardens, the yellow line is the memorial area within.

    While I haven't walked my dog there, I would have no bother doing so, but I would make sure there was no interference to the memorial area in terms of leaving dog waste or playing with the dog within it. I would pass through it with a dog though no problem and I would, as I always do, stop a moment at the monuments and give a little word of silent thanks for the sacrifice.

    Likewise, as the Covid restrictions opened up, we met with extended family in the WMGs to picnic and chat and kick ball, but we did it outside the memorial area and we took the opportunity to walk the kids through and explain the memorial to the ones who were old enough to understand the reference.

    The WMGs are one of Dublin's hidden treasures, in my opinion, but when I was a kid they were left to rack and ruin, because at the height of the Troubles on this island, nobody wanted to take on the care of a testament to the sacrifice of Irish men made while Ireland was ruled by Britain. It might seem petty now, but at the time it was very serious and divisive.

    Anyway, in time they received the remediation and care those men deserved and we have that beautiful space to remember them by today.

    I don't think they or their families would especially care if they brought a dog along with you, as long as you have respect in your heart and in your actions.

    Far better an active living memorial of people stopping by and reflecting as they do, than some dusty cenotaph behind a locked gate. They did die, after all, so that others may live on. Even their pet dogs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 754 ✭✭✭Kurooi


    Not Disrespectful

    Those memorials are put in middle of parks specifically to be part of the city life, with all the people, screaming children ball games and indeed dogs around them. If the intention was to put them somewhere somber then we must wheel them out to some remote island off the coast.

    Usual rules and human decency applies. Clean up after your dog.



  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Not Disrespectful

    I haven't been to the WMGs since I was a child - we used to go there regularly at the weekend with my grandparents who lived not too far away. My grandmother lost six of her brothers to WWI. They used to bring their dogs along for the walk. I remember it as being quite big, there is a lot more to the WMG then just the memorial area itself.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,426 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    That’s a record, because originally it was 5 Collins brothers from Waterford.CWGC would be very interested in that.

    when the 5th Collins brother died , the 6th brother was sent home on compassionate leave



  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Not Disrespectful

    Who are the CWGC and how do I get in touch with them?

    That's what she always said, six brothers, and I think it was all on the same day, or in one battle? Obviously she is long passed away herself now and only 1 of her own children is still alive, though elderly and has dementia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,426 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    Central Wargraves Commison.

    they have details of where all soldiers died , memorials if they’ve no grave , along with basic service records.

    CWGC can googled, also have an app.



  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Not Disrespectful

    Great, thanks, you've piqued my own curiosity now! I never had any reason to doubt her....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,037 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Not Disrespectful

    I think the men they are commemorating, if they had once chance to go back would be firmly focused on wine,women and song in the terrible knowledge the moment they were shot down how short a life it can be

    I don’t think a dog knocking around the party would annoy any of them



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 609 ✭✭✭HazeDoll


    Not Disrespectful

    I don't think anybody is actually buried there, are they?

    Are they, Furze?

    I used to spend a considerable portion of every day there with my dog and I thought I knew every inch of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,627 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    I suppose if you behave yourself and keep the dog on a lead that should be enough.

    For the frisbees, footballers and picnics the Phoenix Park is nearby.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,360 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    Quote from the heritageireland website:

    They are dedicated to the memory of the 49,400 Irish soldiers who died in the First World War.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Not Disrespectful

    Apologies, my mistake - looked at it quickly and assumed talking about Blackhorse Ave



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 601 ✭✭✭iffandonlyif


    Disrespectful

    I’m going to be controversial and alienate myself from both sides by saying it’s not objectionable because it’s a war memorial but because it’s just generally antisocial to allow your dog run wild in a formal garden.

    One of the reasons I so like the War Memorial Gardens (which commemorate a relative of mine) is that they are open and welcoming. Unlike Parnell Square, you are invited to relax and enjoy yourself without the expectation of solemnity. Obviously there are limits to that – no children should be climbing on the cenotaph, for instance – but the prevailing rules are just those of any park, which are for the enjoyment of others.

    And chucking a ball to your dog in a formal gardens is against those rules! Like OP, I have seen someone situate themselves at one fountain in that memorial section and catapult a ball almost as far as the other fountain. I was standing at the cross, at the foot of the ceremonial steps, and couldn’t enjoy the effect of the symmetry when there was a dog zipping back and forth. Another poster shows on a map that the memorial is just a small section of the gardens. There is ample room to unleash your dog outside of that (not to mention Royal Hospital down the road and Phoenix Park across the river).

    On the same day a large family had left their possessions strewn across a wide distance while they were off exploring the rose beds. As they moved between the levels, their dog ran between bushes. That to me isn’t disrespectful to the dead, it’s disrespectful to the living. I left the park early because I felt that it had been taken over by these people without regard for others. That disregard is all too common in Ireland, and the response of posters in this thread gives me no confidence it will change any time soon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,950 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Disrespectful

    There is plenty park space outside of the actual gardens themselves, it wouldn't be too much to ask to keep the doggy hi-jinks out there, bearing in mind to clean up your dog sh1te and not to annoy other park users.

    If it was a similar memorial garden in an overseas country, you'd be at least told off, or having to explain yourself at a police station or at worst, be given a few kicks up the hole from ex servicemen for doing whatever you feel like.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,766 ✭✭✭cml387




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,426 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    i have the app on my phone and still got it wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,920 ✭✭✭blackbox


    I'd have no problem as long as the dog was kept on a lead and the owner picks up its faeces.



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