The eviction ban

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120465233#Comment_120465233

The problem in the Irish rental market is that the government and support groups wanted to change the system immediately which was dependent on small LL. It was the equivalent of trying to do a U-turn with the Titanic.

They started the U-turn and started to applying sticking plasters where there was an issue. The boat is beginning to take in water and it's an unholy mess.

We all hear about rental situations in Germany or Italy or Holland. There are institutional rentals. There is 15 year contracts. Most are apartments with management companies managing the general area.

I am not sure if the LL has to do an electric cert every five years. If the LL has to put window locks on windows even if it's a one bed apartment. Is the LL responsible for smoke alarms, washing machines, cookers, cookers goods, Freezers and a microwave

After the 15 years the LL will get there property back newly painted either in white and magnolia. Neither will the LL have to spend two days cleaning out the apartment and need a skip for the rubbish.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120465598#Comment_120465598

Some good points there. If the current exodus can be leveraged in order to bring about a more favourable rental environment such as exists in The Netherlands, Germany and some other countries, then at least some small good can result from the current situation.

It seems to me however, that all the thinking at the government level is simply about reversing the current crisis back to the longer term dysfunctional system we had before. Better than nothing but a shame all the same.

SwimClub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120465233#Comment_120465233

I think a lot of this 'other country' stuff is a myth. There are problems in most big cities. Just google Berlin housing crisis, Amsterdam housing crisis etc.

Renters hear about idyllic conditions with rent freezes etc. abroad and ignore that controls have invariably led to worse conditions for everyone in those markets (except perhaps those on frozen rents and even those have been caught out and charged the difference over a number of years in Berlin after legal challenges).

It's supply and demand, you'll have plenty of demand for idyllic renting conditions in the cities everyone wants to live in, but the supply on those terms is going to be hard to find. If you make renting terms favorable to tenants only supply will disappear. Some people in situe might benefit from terms that scare off new supply but outside of that everyone else and future renters will all be worse off.

BoxcarWilliam99

There is no real increase in houses and apartments for sale in daft , my home etc

This supposed tsunami of evictions because the landlord wants to sell up is a myth

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120466287#Comment_120466287

It will take 6-10 weeks to see any increase. The first of the termination's were the start March.

Give it a week for the LL to clear out the Rubbish. Another 2-3 weeks to give it a clean, fix an issues and paint it to make it presentable. Then a couple of weeks for to arrange an auctioneer.

Remember as well not all properties will will come up for sale as owners nay need them for a family member. As well the termination dates for houses held up by the termination ban is spread over 8-10 weeks I think.

Finally the opposition like to shout and scream about up to 7k families facing eviction. The truth is a bit different. Some of these rental termination were were 2-5 single people were renting a property and the LL had to give each tenant an individual notice to the RTB.

newmember2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120466287#Comment_120466287

I wonder can number be ascertained, but with the scarcity in accommodation, I'd imagine any tenant in situ with nowhere to go is going nowhere.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120466287#Comment_120466287

Lets be real. An awful lot of people who receive eviction notices aren't going anywhere in the short to medium term. They'll overhold, stop paying rent etc. safe in the knowledge that it'll take the landlord two, three or four years to get them out.

Flinty997

They reckon it takes "on average" 3-6 months to sell a property.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120466287#Comment_120466287

If it's a myth then there's no need for any legislation to prevent evictions due to selling up.

SwimClub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120466287#Comment_120466287

Don't forget it's stated policy of the government and local authorities to buy off landlords exiting also.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120465824#Comment_120465824

However we've managed to achieve poor security for tenants, sky high rents AND hardly any available supply.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120466532#Comment_120466532

What do you mean by ''buy-off''. They do want to get LA to buy properties where there is termination notices and LL is selling.

The problem for LL is if there is a situation where there is a family in a two bed house with a parent and a male and female child or a large family with 5+ children in a three bed. This creates an issue for a LA if they buy the house.

On top of that many of these properties may have significant issues to bring them up to the generic LA standard.

newmember2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120466371#Comment_120466371

What reason do you have for thinking they'll stop paying the rent?? Shur if they were that way inclined they should've stopped paying rent 2 years ago. If there's nowhere for them to go then try and let that sink into your head there for a minute and then tell me where they should go.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120466842#Comment_120466842

What was the legal position if a tenant if they didn't pay rent during the eviction ban?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120467067#Comment_120467067

They could have been served notice within a month of starting non payment

newmember2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120467067#Comment_120467067

It was a no fault eviction ban...if a tenant wasn't paying their rent then they were at fault so the ban did not apply to them.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120467076#Comment_120467076

This is true. The legal position with regard to non-paying tenants did not change during the no fault eviction ban.

carveone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120466842#Comment_120466842

My Dad wants to sell the small apt he's had for 40 years on the basis that he's getting a bit too old to deal with this. Any raises in rent just come off my mother's qualified dependent payments (and SW nicely take the rental income as "your means", not rental less mgmt fees etc). So they haven't raised rent in 6 years. Not complaining, just saying a lot of small landlords aren't necessarily in it for riches and fortunes like.

I did the RTB stuff for him (very straightforward, no matter what anyone says) and served 6 months notice. No reply or interest from the LA. The family are on a housing list - 550th I think, down 34 places in 3 years. Good going DCC.

Last week we went over, knowing that it was likely the family there had nowhere to go. They've been looking every day for months and were now in a panic so we told them to ignore the end date and overhold. We might withdraw the notice, not sure yet. It's just simply unacceptable to us to put a family on the street.

There's really is nowhere to go. It's awful. It's a betrayal.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120466842#Comment_120466842

Because now non payment has no effect on an eviction due to selling the property.

It's the result of the govt inept tinkering with the legislation without ever actually fixing it.

Bobtheman

The eviction ban was a mistake. Just kicking the can down the road.

The government a few years ago should have made renting property much more attractive plus had a vacant property tax as well for properties left vacant over a number of years.

I know there are people on this site who will say renting a property means you want the state to pay a mortgage etc etc

If its so God dam attractive why are so many landlords leaving

These same people - people with no accommodation issues come up with all sorts of excuses for this

Cut taxes for landlords radically in return for a commitment not to evict a tenant for 3 years.

If it works to slow exodus great

If it doesn't reverse it.

newmember2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120467267#Comment_120467267

I'm not following you...if a tenant stopped paying their rent, before the eviction ban, during the eviction ban, after the eviction ban - there's no difference - the landlord can serve notice and when the day of eviction comes the tenant can overhold. This thread is about the eviction ban, not non-paying tenants. There are people now who have paid their rent and continue to do so, who are now overholding properties because there is nowhere for them to go.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120467485#Comment_120467485

Are we perhaps conflating the predicting of overholding with "encouraging" overholding?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120467407#Comment_120467407

I can see your default position will be over holding regardless of any legislation. Over holding only kicks the can down the road for so long.

There is a correlation between promoting overholding and there being no places to rent.

Seems to be working well though.

SwimClub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120467535#Comment_120467535

Who will ever rent a place to that woman again?

Once a tenant overholds and the property owner starts proceedings at the RTB there will be a record of those proceedings, future landlords will request previous RTB registration number and won't rent to the tenant.

DownByTheGarden

I posted this in another thread. Probably fits here better

I really dont understand why anyone is surprised at all.

Ive seen this video and several others like it, posted every now and again for the last decade or so. There were more even older ones basically saying the same thing going back to when rent controls started in Ireland. There used to be great examples around the world of what rent controls did. But now Ireland is the poster child for this folly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBragREvqXg

Flinty997

Look at the people promoting overholding and not paying rent then wondering why theres no where to rent.

Best leave them sort it out themselves.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120467779#Comment_120467779

I think you can ask to have your name taken off the RTB site.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120467250#Comment_120467250

Have you looked into inheritance planning? Who would get the property if, God forbid, your father passed away?

If he has a need to sell to prop up retirement income that’s one thing- but if there’s no monetary need to sell, would it be worth exploring putting your name also on the property? You’d need to seek tax advice around implications but if he ever sold, he’ll have a large property tax bill - that in itself is worth trying to legitimately and legally avoid.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120466842#Comment_120466842

You aren't sure you'll be kicked out until you receive an eviction notice. Stop paying when you don't have an eviction notice and you're sure to get one.

Once an eviction notice is served, what's there to lose by not paying. They are getting evicted anyway, might as well save a few bob in the process.

Regarding where should they go? This will sound harsh but that shouldn't be the landlord's problem. If the landlord acts within the law, then they are entitled to get their property back. It's not the landlord's fault that not enough properties were built to cater for demand.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120468226#Comment_120468226

Most eviction notices are six months plus. A tenant dose not have to go e notice of disputing that notice until a few weeks before that. If the stop paying rent the LL can start eviction notices within 30 days of caseation of payment.

Another trick was to stop paying the LA there there stipend by those on HAP. However if you are in serious arrears to the LA they will not allow you back on HAP for two months after arrears cleared