Potential for €10 congestion charge, parking increases of 400% and a 20kmh reduction in speed limits

MrMusician18

The government are currently investigating increased parking, congestion charges and speed limit reductions in order to help the country meet its climate goals. Looks like a split in the coalition is emerging over the proposals, which are likely to be deeply unpopular. Do you see anything of the proposed that could be considered politically palatable?

https://www.irishtimes.com/environment/climate-crisis/2023/03/06/coalition-tensions-over-options-to-reduce-private-car-usage/

Royale with Cheese

I drive an EV, can I go 20km/h faster than everyone else?

US3

Why can't we just buy enough carbon credits off of other countries to meet our targets ?

GLaDOS

Can we get a functioning public transport system so? Getting a bus these days is a gamble on when/if it will show up, and that's the only public transport available near my house.

heres a wild idea

Instead of bankrupting people for using their fcuking cars why don’t they make it more feasible for people outside Dublin to use public transport to travel to work etc?

i used to take the bus, problem is if I finish after 8:30pm (every shift i finish at earliest 10pm) I can’t get home on the bus before 1:30am.

But yeah I’m the fcuking problem. Sure I will just quit work and go on the dole, that’s what they want then I guess? Cos I’m starting to lose the will to live at this stage.

Work 70 odd hours a week to have money sucked out of me wallet left and right between tax on the wage + the car, paying for the fuel (with tax), paying for parking (about to go up apparently) and then the ridiculous grocery bills and massive ESB lately.

But yea I’ve been saying for weeks now I need more money taken out of my wallet cos I generally have a few pound spare and heaven forbid I try to save that or buy something nice.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058287056/potential-for-10-congestion-charge-parking-increases-of-400-and-a-20kmh-reduction-in-speed-limits

Do you see anything of the proposed that could be considered politically palatable?

Nope, nothing.

Say one thing though - the thread title is doing some impressive mileage! 😳

ednwireland

I was in for a gastroscopy yesterday , general hospital 45 mind drive away . I could have got a bus there for a midday appointment would have got me there at 9.30am.

also the appointment specifically said don't go home on public transport ......

BoxcarWilliam99

Less than 7% of the population voted for the greens. They have no mandate.

So much for democracy

Thelonious Monk

Hopefully this can reduce some of the mess in our urban areas which are completely dominated by car traffic and cars dumped everywhere. Wont be popular decisions but this is why having Greens in government from time to time is a good thing, they'll push for unpopular decisions that are better for all down the line. People really shouldn't be driving into city centres in this day and age.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319888#Comment_120319888

Congestion charges are usually just certain zones during certain hours, if you're leaving late it's unlikely you'd need to pay anything.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319916#Comment_120319916

The problem is that their policy approach is all stick and no carrot.

Of course less cars in the city centre is a good thing , of course less emissions are a good thing but it can't all be penalties and increased charges.

The vast majority of the focus should be on creating viable alternatives - In fact it should be 100% focused on alternatives.

If there are public transport alternatives to use , people just end up having to pay more to use the only viable option they have. It won't stop them using the car if there aren't any busses/trains available

Have the greens never read Aesops fables?

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319915#Comment_120319915

Could we get a sticky put up on the homepage for people who don't seem to understand our system of government and how coalitions work etc? It's genuinely a serious issue as it comes up regularly. Not enough is taught in schools about this stuff clearly.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319992#Comment_120319992

Absolutely but stuff like this just causes backlash when you see the likes of Metro, Navan rail, Cork Luas etc. are all at least a decade away and more from delivery. The real urgency to deliver big public transport infrastructure simply isn't there in this country.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319985#Comment_120319985

Lots of rail and bus improvements coming down the line, also metro gone for planning permission but that's still years away. I doubt they'll drop all these new measures upon us at once though.

CPTM

I like the idea in cities that have some sort of modern transport system. But in Dublin there is no underground, no Uber, and the buses are unreliable. And even worse their realtime position is worse than it was about 7 years ago.

At least allow us a sort of second tier taxi service like Uber which is available when the licensed taxi drivers are all busy. It's a basic update to the apps that are there at the moment - First check for availability among all the primary taxi drivers with taxi licences, and if no one is there, check for lift sharing drivers.

The licensed guys can't complain about that because they're getting first dibs.

Homesick Alien

What's your point? There are of course going to be exceptions. Not every measure is going to work for 100% of people 100% of the time. The idea is to target those journeys that can be easily made by alternative means.

Tenzor07

Usual guff from the Greens, we can blame the Avocado munchers in Ranelagh for this one...

Sleepy Eamonn is trying his best to limit air travel too by having one of his chiefs of staff tell one of their many special advisors to send some Memo's instead of actually fixing the issues...

BoxcarWilliam99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319992#Comment_120319992

Nobody voted for this.

Well 93% didn't.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320038#Comment_120320038

You understand how constituencies work? And ministerial positions?

BoxcarWilliam99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320051#Comment_120320051

You understand nobody voted for this bar a handful of leafy South Dublin well to do urbanites.

These policies effect everyone. Nobody wants this.

No mandate

archermoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320009#Comment_120320009

Yeah, but last I checked most of them don't have anything for those of us that work in Dublin county but live in a different county. I drive in currently because taking any of the transit options would more than double my commute time and cost a lot more even with the current high diesel prices. For public transit to be used it has to be either more convenient or cheaper, preferably both. Currently for me at least it is neither.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320062#Comment_120320062

I voted for this as did many others and im not from southside. Lots of people want less cars in cities. Pretty much only one demographic is represented on boards.ie nowadays so it's not a great barometer.

ednwireland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320009#Comment_120320009

everything's always coming down the line has been for decades at this point.

I could only a get one bus from donegal town to letterkenny on a Sunday morning. so much for that idea.

archermoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320062#Comment_120320062

I'll take that as a no then.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320079#Comment_120320079

Well why do people in Donegal keep voting for the same muppets who have zero interest in public transport? Anyway these measures wouldn't affect places like Donegal.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319927#Comment_120319927

I’d still need to pay for parking and I still pay for diesel to travel there.

My overarching point here is more that they’re trying to price people out of using their cars rather than offer a suitable alternative.

If it was easier to take a bus I’d take a bus. Most people would. I hate driving home after work. I’m tired, I just want to listen to music and tap on my phone mindlessly on the journey home (I used to enjoy the bus ride home honestly except for the whole waiting til 1:30am..).

I’m not a die hard car or bust person at all but I can’t stand this shite. Build it and they will come is out the window here it’s “price them out of cars and they’ll be forced to come”.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320072#Comment_120320072

So it'll probably cost people like you a bit more to drive in. At least you're not paying dublin house prices/rent.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320091#Comment_120320091

Yeah so people like you will take a hit, but we'll have less cars in cities and buses etc will run better as there'll be fewer cars. Dems the breaks.

Marcos

Eamon Ryan isn't a democrat, he's a wannabe autocrat. Remember his statement about wishing for a one world dictatorship so he could push his agenda?

Also wanting to restrict air travel unless it's for himself and his cronies flying business class.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320102#Comment_120320102

Did he really want to restrict citizens from air travel?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320092#Comment_120320092

Ah here lad are you joking

Who cares what someone’s rent is? It doesn’t excuse charging people up the wazoo to travel as opposed to offering a functional, reliable & regular bus service outside of the capital city.

It shouldn’t be this way it’s a disgrace it’s been allowed to happen. I remember years ago (at least 15 now) there was a bus into Gorey (Co Wexford) from a village (Ballycanew). This bus went twice a day, early morning (around 9am) and afternoon (around 3 o’clock).

For a lot of people in the village this was the only way into Gorey to do their grocery shop and whatever else they needed outside of taking a cab or a car. Bus Eireann scrapped it because there wasn’t enough money off it.

So the people who were using that service had no choice left to them than to use a car. It’s easy to think of a big town or city with decent enough public transport but smaller villages and whatnot (not necessarily just stand alone houses in the middle of no where) are more affected by poor transport links and subsequently even more affected by policies like these.

I’m not opposed to more people using PT, but the fact is if you want people to use it it needs to first of all exist & then also be reliable and so on. If you rob people of the affordability to use their cars without offering a reasonable substitute you are screwing them not helping them.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320122#Comment_120320122

None of the measures would affect people driving to Gorey etc. to purchase groceries, I would imagine this is mostly Dublin related.

cnocbui

Emigrate.

ednwireland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320087#Comment_120320087

I've never seen a decent muppett to vote for up here in 26 years. I think everyone's given, the reason sf are so strong is that other parties just thought they could keep picking up there traditional vote no one else has ever bothered seriously campaigning.

could have built all the new roads to be wide enough to take light rail / trams you would have tullaghan to donegal town/the gap available for rail now.

the n2 link to letterkenny got wiped out with recession/ institutions collapsed in the North.

we did have green candidate but she went off to live on a commune.

all old raillines are due to be turned into greenways.

I wouldn't be so sure these sort of measures won't keep to the main cities.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320091#Comment_120320091

That's because must people won't switch until they have no other choice.

I'll will agree the available alternatives could be better. It's improving though.

whisky_galore

Another Eamonn Ryan brainfart, all sticks and no carrots. Let's punish people and not give them viable alternatives anyway.

He's not passing up the Paddy's Day junket either, do as I say, not as I do seems to be his mantra.

magicbastarder

it's pretty much just kite-flying at the moment, a 'these are possible options open to us'.

i probably could look it up, but i wonder how many people drive their private car into the city centre anymore. it'd affect them (and since nothing is set in stone, it may be rush hour specific)

the problem with things like this is that the people who benefit (bus passengers, etc.) essentially have no voice. you could add ten minutes to each journey of 1,000 motorists, and in doing so save 10 minutes each of 10k PT users, and it's the motorists whose voices will be heard.

re the story of driving around donegal, i doubt the congestion charge or parking would be affected, as i believe usually when they talk about raising parking fees, it's spaces on public roads they are referring to.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320038#Comment_120320038

Every single political party in the Dail voted in favour of the Climate Act in 2021. Every single one. It passed 129-10. Every single party had climate change actions in their last manifesto for the 2020 election. Were you not paying attention for who you voted for and what they stood for? It is readily arguable that measures like these are one of the few things that all political parties actually agree on.

This was on the SF manifesto in 2020 "...much greater priority should be given to these modes [bus lanes, cycles lanes] over private car use".

CalamariFritti

If you introduce such measure before creating viable alternatives you're not only going to piss people off but you're also putting basically all city retail and gastronomy businesses out of business.

Especially when you make it unaffordable to live in the city at the same time.

I mean what's idea here? Don't live in the city but do business in the city but close all ways off to actually get there?

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320189#Comment_120320189

yes because people drive into dublin in the evenings to go for dinner lol. also who drives into town to go shopping these days? if you're driving you go to shopping malls with their huge car parks.

Flinty997

I think because Eamonn is a red flag to a bull for most people, any half reasonable initiative is thrown out with the dishwater..

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320201#Comment_120320201

we can only hope that he can get as many things as possible over the line that can't be rolled back on before the next government is formed

CalamariFritti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320197#Comment_120320197

But is that what we really want? I know we want to reduce individual traffic, but do we want empty cities?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320091#Comment_120320091

If it was easier to take a bus I’d take a bus. Most people would.

The fact there is such a high proportion of car journeys that are <5km, or <2km, suggests otherwise however.

Even with current price points, a significant number of people continue to choose to drive into and around cities when there are, in fact, other options available.

Anyway, these proposals will all change but a congestion charge and parking cost increase/reduction in parking I would broadly support.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320207#Comment_120320207

Empty of cars, as much as possible, yes.

This "turning places into ghost towns" thing is rolled out every, single time restrictions on private cars are suggested and when the restrictions go forward it is shown to be fear-mongering nonsense every single time. People massively overestimate the proportion of shoppers/diners who come via private car. Probably because we have given over so much space in our cities to them and it seems like there are more of them than there are.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320207#Comment_120320207

I'm not following you at all

Kimbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319888#Comment_120319888

Since your giving it away already, throw some my way :P

archermoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320092#Comment_120320092

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320098#Comment_120320098

Sure, sucks to be you but at least it is better for me is an easy position to take. I mean why bother making things better for everyone?

Currently the N7 is packed every day for the commute. You'd think that people interested in getting climate change under control might be interested in getting some of them off the road. Just making it more expensive for them isn't going to get many of them off the road. Giving them a viable alternative might.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320232#Comment_120320232

well there's all sorts of things in the works to improve public transport, i would imagine they're not going to impose all these new measures at once

redlough

This is a proposal

"One Fine Gael source said the suggestions are “as of now, nothing but options”.

Another said “it is modelling, not policy.”

For this to be implemented it would need to go to a vote and for the majority to approve it, so complaining about Eamonn Ryan doing his job and coming up with proposals is a bit odd.

If he wasn't coming up with option what would you say then?

The word "mandate" seems to be confusing a lot of people online. Every TD that is elected has a mandate for the people that voted them in.

The plan would see priority given to public transport, cycling and walking, as part of Government aims to give people viable alternatives to using the car for every journey.

No matter what the complaints on I think we should all agree the following should be implemented, especially in cities

Oscar_Madison

All well and good if you live within cycling or walking distance of your workplace and you have a 9-5 or even a flexi time arrangement in work, as many of the Green Party do - for the rest of the unfortunates it’s just placing even more financial burdens on to them - not everyone can afford to live close to cities and their workplaces.

This is a distraction blaming car drivers when in fact the real issue is pizz poor public transport services which couldn’t even cater for a fraction of the increased numbers if just a few left their cars at home