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Burning..

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    In 1986 mapped the mountains in Mayp from Croagh Patrick to Killary Harbor...the whole Erriff Valley. The hills were covered in sheep. There was gullying, eroded peat stacks, overgrazed mountainside and worn paths. In summer 2022 I was back in those hills and I estimate the sheep numbers are down by 90-95% compared to back then, and the hills can carry those few sheep without damage to the soils.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,315 ✭✭✭Anto_Meath


    I believe that in the early 2000 there was actually less sheep on them mountains than there is now. They had to encourage the local farmers to restock the mountains to a certain extent as briars & the likes were taking over killing the native heathers and flowers that they were trying to protect. Its all about getting the balance right when working with land, animals & the environment. We want to improve all 3 and leave then in a better place than where we found them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭Jonnyc135


    Frightening what some eco warriors come out with on these threads. On paper my farm is carbon neural, in fact I'm sequestering more than I'm emitting, unfortunately anyone like me gets no credit for this and there's alot of farmers out their like me - instead these mud slingers try too portray many farms in this boat as an environmental disaster to that I say f@@ck right off.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,030 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    It's all well and good until someone's house goes up, or worse.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,186 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    we're talking specifically about upland farms, no?

    what these eco warriors want is this map not to look like this. ireland noticeably the worst in europe for ecological integrity.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,980 ✭✭✭alps


    Bet you haven't the foggiest idea what that map depicts..



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,186 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    umm.. ok? you want me to respond to that? i don't generally respond to vacuous ad hominem.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Sure, but prosecute those who commit the arson. Is it proper or improper if someone is knocked down in your area and you get prosecuted because you're local and own a car?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,000 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    ok but what has that got to do with setting uplands on fire?



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,186 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    this is one issue with conservation, in that often it adopts a 'frozen in time' approach; you have areas of land, say with heather, which are like that due to human intervention; and the approach is 'conserve what's there' - which often means conserving the human intervention too. it's the approach of 'conserve what we know is there and we value' rather than 'what should this place actually look like'.

    whereas another approach would be to try to let the area return to what it would have been if there had been no human intervention in the first place. but AFAIK there are concerns that many areas may have irreversibly flipped - i've seen commentary that swathes of molinia may be self-sustaining, so to speak, and they're the result of burning, etc., but left alone would stay that way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭Jjameson


    sesquipedalian prose cuts no mustard here. Bullshitting with elongated elaborate language. These are extensive grazing areas which has brought unique biodiversity for millennia, burning is part and parcel of this.

    Who complied the map and what exactly should the uplands look like in your imagination and how doe it benefit people?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭80sDiesel


    Every field wants to be a forest.

    If left alone , scrub, then trees would grow and shade the gorse thus preventing its growing. You would get birch hazel holly at the beginning and end up with an oak forest teeming with life. It takes patience in both growing and acceptance.

    But it will be a forest eventually. We can either stand in it's in way or be a part of it.

    A man is rich in proportion to the number of things which he can afford to let alone.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,186 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    me use small words for you so.

    and the point you make is amply demonstrated in the map i posted above, i assume?

    the paper the map appears in, is here; the ecological integrity score is combined from three factors - loss/prevalence of megafauna, fragmentation of habitats, and how pristine or degraded the environment is.

    https://www.idiv.de/fileadmin/content/Files_BioCon/wildereurope2020.pdf



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,642 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    Burning isn't the issue, it's the attitude of some farmers, (most farmers in kerry) who set fire to the land without any consideration of its effects and just walk away and leave people and property at risk. The hills of kerry were ablaze this week with property at risk and the fire service and the tax payer picking up the tab. There was absolutely nothing controlled in what I saw while I chocked on the smoke.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,577 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Same in Louth. Fires were started in Cooley and just left for the fire service to get a call to come and get it under control. It's not the burning, it's the lack of attempts to keep it controlled and no consideration for damage to other property.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,768 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    There you have it from two ends of the country.

    It's not anti farmer to say this must stop.

    We all know the hills have to be managed but that's an argument for another day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,198 ✭✭✭Packrat


    It is beyond belief that the blatant attacks, generalisations, and general denigration of farmers is allowed on this - supposedly a farming forum.

    This kind of trolling is allowed on exactly NO other topic specific forum on this site.

    The lack of forum bans is shameful.

    Moderator/s - hang your heads in shame, you are no friend to any farmer while you allow the likes of magicbastarder and his open hate of farmers air here.

    Are you afraid of his status on the site or what?

    If you have any integrity - Act.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,577 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,186 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    If you think any of my posts are objectionable, your best bet is the 'report post' function. I was being reasonably polite, I thought.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,470 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Not too far from me there'll be gorse fires galore over St. Patricks weekend on a hill. The same hill which has been walked into the ground by humans traipsing up it to have a fine view across the countryside. It's a farmers private land, but can't do, and doesn't do a whole lot to stop the daily pilgrimages. There's fences in shite from people climbing over/through to go up the hill. It's not the landowner who starts all these fires but the people who descend on the place for the tradition of climbing it on March 17th. Going by the logic here, this farmer should be hung drawn and quartered for causing the fires and then billed for any expense to control them if they go out of control. Do posters here think the fire starters in this scenario are setting up a controlled burn or worried about what happens if it starts to get out of control? They are well gone off the hill and enjoying parades/pints/something if it goes to shite.

    What's been stated here around these fires is pure speculation as to who started them. It's pure speculation (wrong in my opinion too) that if a farmer started a fire to manage the hill that he/she would simply walk away once they threw the match down. That's absolute fantasy thinking really and boils my piss of this attitude of farmers of been piss poor at anything and not giving a **** as long as they sit back and collect fat cheques from someone for doing "nothing"

    Post edited by roosterman71 on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    ..



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,642 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    So all the uncontrolled fires around kerry were set by unknown persons who weren't farmers and derived no benefit from their actions and the innocent landowner just happens to get the benefit of it to enhance grazing.... Am I right in parsing what you wrote?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,470 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    You are not but fair play for asking for clarification 😀

    I gave an example of what's happening 5 miles from me, and will happen on the 17th again.

    What I am saying is that any fires a farmer sets for reasons is unlikely (not guaranteed) to be just some one throwing a match and walking away. Firstly they'd have to inform the council, the fire brigade and maybe others of their intention. I know ya have to do that if yer burning bushes and I presume it be the same for a bigger fire such as we've seen. Furthermore, a farmer will lose all payments on that land (if they are claiming) as a result of an illegal fire.

    I suppose my post was more about people jumping the gun and straight away blaming farmers. These people don't have a notion as to who has done what. And don't seem to know the actions needed by farmers in order to light a fire in the first place. The council and fire brigade have to be told.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,642 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    Well fires that come within a whisker of homes and valentia lifeguard station were nothing but uncontrolled, reported to the fire station or not. No one has come out from any side to say they had been reported. I'm sure it would have been shouted from the rooftops, as would a fire lit by someone other than the landowner(I've heard no farmers on radio kerry shout arson.) So it's fair game to say it was a farmer and was uncontrolled.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Dog on the street mob justice hey, who needs evidence, just hang them after a "fair" trial.



  • Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭Unidentified user


    My brother was witness in a court case last year over wildfire done near kilorglin. Man in audit hopped out of his car and lit the fire then took off. They got his reg# and few photos and reported the incident. The ahole was no farmer and from the outset the non farming people(lovely people that they are) blamed it on farmers.. look it up, was in the papers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,470 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Fair game to say uncontrolled. Anything else is speculation.

    And it seems this was legally started, with permission and it spread uncontrollably.

    There were fears locally that sections of the woods in Killarney National Park could be destroyed after a large fire — started as a controlled burn in a designated area of special conservation — spread.

    The National Parks and Wildlife Service had been notified and had given permission for a control burn in the Mangerton area.

    What actions were done to control it before starting is open for discussion here.

    According to the article farmers are penalised if they don't clear the land.




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,186 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder




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  • Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭Unidentified user


    Not sure if he was a fireman, could have been.



This discussion has been closed.
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