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LGFA welcome Transgender players.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,375 ✭✭✭celt262


    The chances of them been any use at football would be slim enough they are more than likely be in the category that start leaving the game before they get to U-13.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,236 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    Its from U12 up to Adult.

    So you could have a 18yr old 'man' tackling a 16 yr old 'girl' in a Minor match !

    Or a 25-30 yr old tackling a 18yr old in a Senior/Intermediate/Junior match !

    Theres no legitimate sporting reason for it to happen.... not 1.

    Same as the transgender males competing in swimming/basketball , whatever sport, its not right .

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... "



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,415 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Does your daughter often play against players who are stronger than her at present?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,415 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    It’s funny how you have to make up stuff about “hatred” and “only thing acceptable” to have something to complain about.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,375 ✭✭✭celt262


    What i'm saying is anyone who is likely to be transition to a woman likely has little interest in playing football.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,415 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    You realise that today you have 16 year old girls playing against much bigger, much stronger, much faster 18 year old women at present, and smaller, lighter 18 year old women playing against bigger, heavier, stronger 25 year old woman at present?

    There are no weight categories in football.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,236 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    She plays against biological girls, the same age and have similar testosterone levels.

    Theres not many that are stronger, of course theres a few.

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... "



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,236 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    Why ?

    Wasnt there a man playing against women in Dublin a few years ago?

    There will always be some that when they become a woman/girl will then want to play sport against other women/girls.

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... "



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,236 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    That is true.

    But they are physically a woman. The vast majority of women cannot hit you as hard in a tackle. Thats basic physiology.


    Do you not agree?

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... "



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,375 ✭✭✭celt262


    Yes there will be a few isolated ones but i can't see the players taking kindly to it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,236 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    The LGFA is already a poorly run organisation and this will turn girls that play the game because theres no camogie match/training on, away.

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... "



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,415 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    You do testosterone testing for visiting players? That must cost a bit and delay kick off times. What kind of testosterone readings are you getting for players, compared to the levels set out by LGFA?

    It’s interesting to note how you’re quite happy for your own daughter to have a strength advantage over her peers, but getting your knickers in quite a twist over the idea that another player would have the same advantage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,415 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    It seems to me that size, weight, bulk, fitness, strength would be the key characteristics that would impact how hard a tackle may be, rather than gender. A weedy, skinny, light 16 year old boy or trans girl isn’t going to have much success going up against a powerful, fast, bulky, heavier 18 year old young woman. We can all pick extreme examples, but if there measuring for testosterone, they seem to have the key points covered.

    It’s hard to see the rational basis for these concerns when they’ve never restricted players by size or weight or strength before.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,236 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    Theres limits set out by the LGFA.

    "Confirmation from a General Practitioner or suitably qualified medical practitioner confirming the Applicant’s total testosterone level in serum during the previous 12 months is equal to or less than 10 nanomoles per litre (nmol/L)"


    Typical total testosterone levels in children and adolescents

    AgeMale (in ng/dl)7–10 years old 1.80 to 5.68 Female (in ng/dl)2.69 to 10.29

    AgeMale (in ng/dl)13–17 years old208.08 to 496.58 Female (in ng/dl)16.72 to 31.55

    Typical total testosterone levels in adults

    Testosterone levels change throughout a person’s lifetime. Below are typical total testosterone levels in malesTrusted Source

     and females.

    AgeMale (in ng/dl)19 years and older265–923 Female (in ng/dl) 15–70

    ....


    No, the GP's are supposed to check...


    And a boy transitioning into a girl is not simply 'another player' ...

    In soccer, girls cannot play on boys teams after U16 level..... Why would that be ?

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... "



  • Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭farmingquestion


    I blame twitter for all of this.

    Tiny minorities have a much louder voice than they should have, resulting in greater power and influence.

    I never used to use twitter and then I started browsing it and the started to realise just how much influence it has. The likes of Chu, O'Riordan, Murphy pander to twitter audiences.

    The problem is people are coerced into thinking a certain way now or else you're racist, transphobic, homophobic etc.

    It seems the needs of a few are more important than the needs of the many nowadays.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,236 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    "It’s hard to see the rational basis for these concerns when they’ve never restricted players by size or weight or strength before."

    Really?

    RUGBY -

    "The IRFU references ‘recent peer-reviewed research’ which it says ‘provides evidence that there are physical differences between those people whose sex was assigned as male and those as female at birth, and advantages in strength, stamina and physique brought about by male puberty (which) are significant and retained even after testosterone suppression’. The English RFU recently

    decided to no longer allow transgender women compete in female contact leagues. Sporting organisations, to one extent or another, have been considering their position in the area and formulating a position for several years."


    SWIMMING -

    FINA, swimming’s world governing body, has a policy which states transgender women can only compete in women’s competitions if ‘they can establish to FINA’s comfortable satisfaction that they have not experienced any part of male puberty beyond Tanner Stage 2 (of puberty) or before age 12, whichever is later’.

    CYCLING -

    Cycling’s governing body, UCI, has updated its rules and brought in stricter eligibility criteria including lowering the maximum plasma testosterone level permitted for transgender female athletes.


    Yeh so size or weight doesnt matter ??


    "It concluded that the inclusion of trans women in female categories in most sports could not be balanced with fairness, and in some sports, safety. "

    On average, compared to age-matched females at any given body weight, adult males have:

    • ⚬ 40- 50% greater upper limb strength
    • ⚬ 20-40% greater lower limb strength
    • ⚬ 12kg more skeletal muscle mass 

    At full growth females are an average of 5-6 inches shorter than males. NHS 2018 states average young adult heights in England as:

    • ⚬ Female 5ft 4 1/2 inches
    • ⚬ Male 5ft 10 inches
    • ⚬ 50% of males are taller than some 97% of females [when plotted across population]


    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... "



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,483 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    I replaced tv in the house last week. The missus picked up and tried to move the old tv from where I left it and said 'Jesus that's heavy' and stopped trying to move it.

    It didn't feel remotely heavy to me. There's your difference



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,236 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    But....But..... but..... but .........


    theres always a but ......

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... "



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,415 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Try asking a fit forward from a LGFA club team to lift your telly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,415 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    So you’ve no actual idea of the testosterone levels of the players your daughter is currently playing against then, that’s what I thought.

    Are you suggesting that there’s something wrong with the levels set out by LGFA?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,415 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    It’s not me saying that size and weight don’t matter. The current rules specify that size and weight don’t matter. Players play against players of a range of sizes, weights, strengths.



  • Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭farmingquestion


    Might be some different answers when the coach asks "how many balls did we take out to training"



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,717 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Men have approximately 90% greater upper body strength than women (Bohannon, 1997, Murray et al., 1985, Stoll, 2000)

    "Human sexual dimorphism has been widely misunderstood. A large literature has underestimated the effect of differences in body composition and the role of male contest competition for mates."

    "The sex difference in upper-body muscle mass in humans is similar in magnitude to the sex difference in lean body mass in gorillas, the most sexually dimorphic primate" (Zihlman & McFarland, 2000).

    Link

    I'm not sure people in general appreciate this. Also women have softer bones, including the bones in their faces, which is why you should never hit a woman.

    The key statistic is that 99.9% of human females fall below the male mean for upper body strength. So literally only approx one in a thousand women are as strong as the average man.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,469 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    I don't have to make anything up.

    I disagree with a narrative and next thing I've a host of mods and admins accusing me of having phobia. Says it all really.

    Only 1 opinion is allowed and any dissent is intolerable



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,236 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    U12 girls play against U12 girls. U14 - U16 - etc

    U12boys play against U12 boys. etc etc.... Based on age because of the onset of puberty ...

    (i cant believe i have to spell all this out !)

    why? Because are different, physically, and mentally.


    Why have the sporting organisations ruled against transgenders playing their sports then?

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... "



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,236 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    I would guess whatever the medical experts would say she has.

    i know boys during puberty could have up to 5times as much testosterone as girls after 10years of age ....

    FRom the link i posted earlier :

    Typical total testosterone levels in children and adolescents

    AgeMale (in ng/dl) 7–10 years old 1.80 to 5.68  Female (in ng/dl)2.69 to 10.29

    AgeMale (in ng/dl) 13–17 years old 208.08 to 496.58 Female (in ng/dl)16.72 to 31.55


    Do you see any dangers at all allowing transgendering boys to play a contact sport against girls?

    And no one mentioned changing rooms etc yet ...

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... "



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,177 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    It's not just about testosterone levels though, it's the process of going through male puberty that makes the difference, that advantage carries through even after transition and despite whatever testosterone suppressing hormones are being taken



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,083 ✭✭✭✭How Soon Is Now


    Your wasting your time arguing this issue on here the outcome is always the same and it always goes in one sides favour. The best way to deal with this is for women to leave the clubs and stop funding them and see how they react.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,236 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    Isnt that sexism ? Shur yaa cant do that.... 😲

    I just think it a very silly route for an organisation to down and allow happen when other organisations (swimming) allowed a transgender man to come into womens swimming and beat the majority of women swimming, get a (deserved) backlash, and then back track and say 'Sorry, no more'.......


    It can/will only end badly, because theres no way it can work , either on the field or in the dressing rooms etc

    Like for example - if an U16 girls team are in the dressing room putting on jersies etc, using the toilet before the game, would they feel comfortable with a transgendering boy in the dressing room , because if she is entitled to play ladies football, she must be entitled to get changed with the girls?

    Or a minor team, or a Junior team ....


    Someone tell me how it supposed to work...... @AndrewJRenko

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... "



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,083 ✭✭✭✭How Soon Is Now


    None of that matters once the small amount of transgender people who may join a women's club are happy then boxes have been ticked. That's all that seems to interest certain people these days is to be seen as progressive in some way which is at the expense of the vast majority of the other people in these situations!



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