LGFA welcome Transgender players.

greenspurs

LGFA again..... 😲

Transgender policy - Ladies Gaelic Football

https://ladiesgaelic.ie/lgfa-hub/clubs/transgender-policy/

Please click on the links below to access the LGFA Transgender policy and associated application forms. Transgender policy Application form A

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://ladiesgaelic.ie/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/LGFA-Transgender-Policy.pdf

Transgender can now play Gaelic football from the age of 12 upwards?!

One of the requirements :

"Confirmation from a General Practitioner or suitably qualified medical practitioner confirming the Applicant’s total testosterone level in serum during the previous 12 months is equal to or less than 10 nanomoles per litre (nmol/L)"

Typical total testosterone levels in children and adolescents

AgeMale (in ng/dl)7–10 years old 1.80 to 5.68 Female (in ng/dl)2.69 to 10.29

AgeMale (in ng/dl)13–17 years old208.08 to 496.58 Female (in ng/dl)16.72 to 31.55

Typical total testosterone levels in adults

Testosterone levels change throughout a person’s lifetime. Below are typical total testosterone levels in males Trusted Source

 and females.

AgeMale (in ng/dl)19 years and older265–923 Female (in ng/dl) 15–70

Seriously... WTF is going on !?!?!?

davidx40

This is absolutely sick ...... what have the Gaa become

Rosita

Not sure much of that policy would stand up to challenge under the Gender Recognition Act.

Strumms

People will just end up voting with their feet. And not engaging with the sport.

biological men are generally significantly stronger, faster, taller then women.

Ladies matches only last 30 minutes per half. Aside from weather influences on play… men statistically make far more scores then the ladies, are generally taller, faster with more all round physical attributes and ability to perform…

what happens when girls start loosing places in teams and squads ? The shît is going to hit the fan.

this is a massively dumb as fûck OG by the LGFA…. Trans rights seem to trump anyone else’s rights and wellbeing.

I’m sure nobody consulted the girls, players, coaches, etc….

Fr Tod Umptious

Just to be pedantic.

The organization that runs ladies (Gaelic) football is the LGFA, not the GAA.

Jack Daw

Clearly this is wrong and anyone who argues otherwise is a zealot who doesn't understand basic biology.

My sister plays rugby at a high level and I would't be happy with her having to take the risk of playing someone who is biologically male. Women are nowhere near as strong as men.I have younger cousins who play ladies football.

It's bad enough having biological men competing against women in non-contact sports but to allow it in a contact sport is a disgrace.

NIMAN

Thought it had already happened

rebel girl 15

I would have thought something like that would have had to go through Congress before it being allowed? This is a significant change to the rulebook surely, so it would need a special congress surely?

Also, putting limits on it - what happens if we have a case similar to Caster Semenya playing inter county, testing positive for testosterone by it isn't because of doping? The 10 nanomoles per litre is the same limit the IAAF set.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120262161#Comment_120262161

Congress is a GAA thing. This is nothing to do with the GAA. It's the LGFA who have proven to be a joke since they broke away.

threeball

The world is upside now. Minorities are now more important than majorities. The smaller the minority group the bigger their voice. Politics is dictated those who shout loudest. It no longer matters what the democratic consensus is. Hardly worth voting on anything anymore as some minority group or other will take over the agenda anyway and twist the narrative to suit their agenda.

The government would live up your hole with health and safety legislation in the workplace or schoolyard. But a biological male now has licence to physically challenge a 15yr old girl as long as she's carrying a football. It's time for this nonsense to stop.

big_drive

Between this now and the camogie carry on last week around UL in college fiasco, I'd say the GAA are better off without any amalgamation of the associations

rebel girl 15

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120262191#Comment_120262191

Just a couple of things here.

1. LGFA have an annual Congress as well - I know, I've attended it a number of times.
2. LGFA never broke away from the GAA - they formed independently as GAA at that time was seen as a male only sport

billyhead

The LGFA trying not to be seen as old fashioned and being more progressive. This is madness pitting someone with male strength and stamina against a female. They didn't even put it to vote.

farmingquestion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120262248#Comment_120262248

Was it JFK who had the slogan "for the many, not for the few"?

evolvingtipperary101

Any one know of any transgender people wanting to train and play at their club? Maybe I'm out of the loop with the rest of the country, but I can't see there being much of a take up. I know its not the point. I mean is there a demand out there that this has been brought to a head (no pun intended)? Surely, it's a city issue (more population/clubs) where there's more possibility of this happening?

Gusser09

Mod Edit

Warning issued.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120262907#Comment_120262907

Id imagine the decision makers are basing this on their own personal motives and interests.

FoxForce5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120262248#Comment_120262248

People were warned when we voted for gay marriage there would be unintended consequences. The GRA was tagged onto the legislation underpinning the yes vote.

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120263301#Comment_120263301

Gay marriage is one thing as that was improving the life's of a not insignificant amount of people but now we're gone down a road of 10 or 20 people in a thousand demanding that the rest of the population address them in a certain way, kicking up a fuss when it doesn't happen, expecting certain privileges and facilities that are not afforded the rest of us.

Any of us involved in a club with kids have to fill out a garda vetting form. Can you imagine the response if some of these minorities were asked to do the same. There'd be carnage.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120263516#Comment_120263516

It's disgraceful isn't it. Imagine have the cheek to except someone to call you by your preferred name, just outrageous. What is society coming to when people think that is acceptable?

celt262

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120263626#Comment_120263626

That is the least concerning thing about all this.

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120262339#Comment_120262339

"The LGFA said its new policy followed “a lengthy and detailed consultation process, which took into consideration worldwide international practice and legal advice”. It declined to say what consultation it undertook."

I'd have a feeling there were talks with the GAA, and they were encouraged to go down this route if there was to be a chance of an amalgamation in the future.

LessOutragePlz

What an absolute joke, it will never been a fair competition if biological makes are allowed to compete against women.

They will always have a physical advantage this is an undeniable, undisputable fact anyone that claims otherwise doesn't understand basic human biology.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120263516#Comment_120263516

Check out the riddle scale for what the aim is. What the minority want is full affirmation and nurturing. Even acceptance is seen to be against them.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120263301#Comment_120263301

Really? Was the GRA mentioned in very small print on the referendum ballot paper or something?

Because I don’t remember any connection between the two entirely separate pieces of legislation, so maybe you could explain exactly what was “tagged on”?

Or is this just a weak attempt of retrospective reframing of a situation? It makes it clear who the mob is coming after next, if they succeed in their attacks on trans people.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273536#Comment_120273536

The existence of a scale doesn’t tell you anything about what the aim is. I have a 3M measuring tape, does that mean my aim is to be 3M tall?

This is purely inflammatory stirring things up.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120263516#Comment_120263516

How large does a minority have to get to before they get treated with some basic respect?

Gay people and trans people are subject to exactly the same Garda vetting rules as everyone else. Are you trying to hint that there is some connection between trans people and criminal activity?

Buddy Bubs

Call yourself whatever you want, that's your business. But don't tell me I have to believe it or respect it.

I'll decide for myself if I agree with it.

LGFA made a bad call here but I doubt there will be much uptake. If men start turning up to play women's football there will be such a scene each time it wouldn't be worth it.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273544#Comment_120273544

You’re welcome to your own opinions, but if you’re part of any organisation, such a a voluntary group or an employment situation, you’re going to have to treat people with respect, in line with organisation policy. Ask Enoch Burke if you don’t believe me.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273538#Comment_120273538

It tells you that even acceptance and tolerance is seen as a negative and the only thing acceptable is affirmation and nurturing.

The cry initially was to show tolerance and accept me for who I am. That's now deemed as hatred.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273539#Comment_120273539

Are you saying Transgender will become a large 'minority' in Ladies Gaelic Football?

I will not allow my teenage daughter EVER play Ladies GF if theres a transgendering (?) man/boy on the opposition, for her own h&s , as a person gone through male puberty will be stronger than her, always.

Also, will the Ladies Gaelic Football Association now have to change their name ? No doubt they will HAVE to .......

I wonder would the Camogie Association take note and follow the LGFA and allow people that used to be male play camogie against girls/women?

Its just crazy stuff .....

celt262

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273652#Comment_120273652

The chances of them been any use at football would be slim enough they are more than likely be in the category that start leaving the game before they get to U-13.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273719#Comment_120273719

Its from U12 up to Adult.

So you could have a 18yr old 'man' tackling a 16 yr old 'girl' in a Minor match !

Or a 25-30 yr old tackling a 18yr old in a Senior/Intermediate/Junior match !

Theres no legitimate sporting reason for it to happen.... not 1.

Same as the transgender males competing in swimming/basketball , whatever sport, its not right .

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273652#Comment_120273652

Does your daughter often play against players who are stronger than her at present?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273634#Comment_120273634

It’s funny how you have to make up stuff about “hatred” and “only thing acceptable” to have something to complain about.

celt262

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273755#Comment_120273755

What i'm saying is anyone who is likely to be transition to a woman likely has little interest in playing football.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273755#Comment_120273755

You realise that today you have 16 year old girls playing against much bigger, much stronger, much faster 18 year old women at present, and smaller, lighter 18 year old women playing against bigger, heavier, stronger 25 year old woman at present?

There are no weight categories in football.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273759#Comment_120273759

She plays against biological girls, the same age and have similar testosterone levels.

Theres not many that are stronger, of course theres a few.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273773#Comment_120273773

Why ?

Wasnt there a man playing against women in Dublin a few years ago?

There will always be some that when they become a woman/girl will then want to play sport against other women/girls.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273780#Comment_120273780

That is true.

But they are physically a woman. The vast majority of women cannot hit you as hard in a tackle. Thats basic physiology.

Do you not agree?

celt262

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273790#Comment_120273790

Yes there will be a few isolated ones but i can't see the players taking kindly to it.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273821#Comment_120273821

The LGFA is already a poorly run organisation and this will turn girls that play the game because theres no camogie match/training on, away.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273784#Comment_120273784

You do testosterone testing for visiting players? That must cost a bit and delay kick off times. What kind of testosterone readings are you getting for players, compared to the levels set out by LGFA?

It’s interesting to note how you’re quite happy for your own daughter to have a strength advantage over her peers, but getting your knickers in quite a twist over the idea that another player would have the same advantage.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273794#Comment_120273794

It seems to me that size, weight, bulk, fitness, strength would be the key characteristics that would impact how hard a tackle may be, rather than gender. A weedy, skinny, light 16 year old boy or trans girl isn’t going to have much success going up against a powerful, fast, bulky, heavier 18 year old young woman. We can all pick extreme examples, but if there measuring for testosterone, they seem to have the key points covered.

It’s hard to see the rational basis for these concerns when they’ve never restricted players by size or weight or strength before.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273864#Comment_120273864

Theres limits set out by the LGFA.

"Confirmation from a General Practitioner or suitably qualified medical practitioner confirming the Applicant’s total testosterone level in serum during the previous 12 months is equal to or less than 10 nanomoles per litre (nmol/L)"

Typical total testosterone levels in children and adolescents

AgeMale (in ng/dl)7–10 years old 1.80 to 5.68 Female (in ng/dl)2.69 to 10.29

AgeMale (in ng/dl)13–17 years old208.08 to 496.58 Female (in ng/dl)16.72 to 31.55

Typical total testosterone levels in adults

Testosterone levels change throughout a person’s lifetime. Below are typical total testosterone levels in malesTrusted Source

 and females.

AgeMale (in ng/dl)19 years and older265–923 Female (in ng/dl) 15–70

....

No, the GP's are supposed to check...

And a boy transitioning into a girl is not simply 'another player' ...

In soccer, girls cannot play on boys teams after U16 level..... Why would that be ?

farmingquestion

I blame twitter for all of this.

Tiny minorities have a much louder voice than they should have, resulting in greater power and influence.

I never used to use twitter and then I started browsing it and the started to realise just how much influence it has. The likes of Chu, O'Riordan, Murphy pander to twitter audiences.

The problem is people are coerced into thinking a certain way now or else you're racist, transphobic, homophobic etc.

It seems the needs of a few are more important than the needs of the many nowadays.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273939#Comment_120273939

"It’s hard to see the rational basis for these concerns when they’ve never restricted players by size or weight or strength before."

Really?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/arid-40937567.html

RUGBY -

"The IRFU references ‘recent peer-reviewed research’ which it says ‘provides evidence that there are physical differences between those people whose sex was assigned as male and those as female at birth, and advantages in strength, stamina and physique brought about by male puberty (which) are significant and retained even after testosterone suppression’. The English RFU recently

decided to no longer allow transgender women compete in female contact leagues. Sporting organisations, to one extent or another, have been considering their position in the area and formulating a position for several years."

SWIMMING -

FINA, swimming’s world governing body, has a policy which states transgender women can only compete in women’s competitions if ‘they can establish to FINA’s comfortable satisfaction that they have not experienced any part of male puberty beyond Tanner Stage 2 (of puberty) or before age 12, whichever is later’.

CYCLING -

Cycling’s governing body, UCI, has updated its rules and brought in stricter eligibility criteria including lowering the maximum plasma testosterone level permitted for transgender female athletes.

Yeh so size or weight doesnt matter ??

https://womeninsport.org/statement/transgender-inclusion-in-womens-sport-july-2022/

"It concluded that the inclusion of trans women in female categories in most sports could not be balanced with fairness, and in some sports, safety. "

On average, compared to age-matched females at any given body weight, adult males have:

• ⚬ 40- 50% greater upper limb strength
• ⚬ 20-40% greater lower limb strength
• ⚬ 12kg more skeletal muscle mass 

At full growth females are an average of 5-6 inches shorter than males. NHS 2018 states average young adult heights in England as:

• ⚬ Female 5ft 4 1/2 inches
• ⚬ Male 5ft 10 inches
• ⚬ 50% of males are taller than some 97% of females [when plotted across population]

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273939#Comment_120273939

I replaced tv in the house last week. The missus picked up and tried to move the old tv from where I left it and said 'Jesus that's heavy' and stopped trying to move it.

It didn't feel remotely heavy to me. There's your difference

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274824#Comment_120274824

But....But..... but..... but .........

theres always a but ......

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274824#Comment_120274824

Try asking a fit forward from a LGFA club team to lift your telly.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274016#Comment_120274016

So you’ve no actual idea of the testosterone levels of the players your daughter is currently playing against then, that’s what I thought.

Are you suggesting that there’s something wrong with the levels set out by LGFA?