Sibling explosion

Clara B

Hi All,

Well I come to you with the age old question….”Am I the asshole?”

I have an older sister. Lives in Uk with her husband and 2 boys. She visits ireland regularly-as mum is thankfully alive and well. She also wants to see both her siblings and her nieces and nephews.

when she is home I always drive to my mums in Galway to see her with the kids. I have collected her from airport and driven her to Galway on occasion. When I visit her in Uk I try and be useful and help her out as she has a busy life. I do too I might add.

During the summer my nephew made his confirmation. I bought the food and catered the event.

I am always on time with my nephews Christmas/birthday gifts and am generous. More so than her to my kids.

I don’t mind that-I can do it and it’s for the boys.

when I call here she rarely picks ups and when she calls me it’s not to say hi-it’s to moan about an issue and ask for a solution. She does this when she is out walking. As soon as she gets home she ends the call.

I don’t talk to her about my personal issues as theres never an opportunity.

she is home this weekend and we made plans yesterday. She FaceTimed me at 9am-while I was in a compromising position with my husband-so I didn’t take the call. I returned it 5 minutes later and asked if she would give me a heads up when she’s FaceTiming me. She was indignant and said it was 9am and I should be up.

anyway-she was planning the day and asked I be there at 2pm. I said I would try but I had some work to do.

as it turned out-work too longer and I had to fix an issue with me car insurance-so I let my mum know I’d be late and wouldn’t arrive until 5.

when I arrived with kids I was met with a very passive aggressive sister. Having just had a passive aggressive phone call from her I decided I needed to address this.

I pulled her aside-as our combined 5 kids were present. I asked if I could have a word. Immediately she went on the attack. Telling me I was always letting her down (we have a brother that makes zero effort to see mum, her or kids). Id let her boys down. I was always late . She made the effort to come. From uk and I couldn’t manage to be where I was supposed to be. This snowballed into her always defending me with the family (I was shocked by this). She roared and shouted and if I got any opportunity to speak she told me I was talking **** and to calm down.

I went outside for some air and to compose myself and decided it was better i take the kids and leave. I wasn’t going to be able play nice for the night and I didn’t want that atmosphere for them. She then said I would upset her boys and our mother.

I have her 2 choices, we could all go or i go and kids stay with hubby collecting in morning.

Mum came home and tried to convince me to stay-but the damage was done. She had said some hurtful things that I couldn’t believe and couldn’t unhear. I did not engage with mud slinging as honestly I was too upset and didn’t want to say something i couldn’t take back.

I cried out of frustration-something I never do and decided to drive the 2 hours back home-leaving kids to have fun with their cousins.

she text on the way home to say sorry for overreacting-but I just wasn’t in the frame of mind to reply. Other half is en route to collect kids now as I just cant face her today.

so, did I over react leaving. Should I just let it go-having let her clear the air and not me.

I know I need a few days to pull myself together. She’s family and I’ll have to move past this-but I don’t know if she I’ll ever have the same relationship with her again.

jackboy

Next time you have an opportunity to see her face to face meet her about this. Just stay calm and give her the opportunity to explain. If she apologises then forget about it, if she goes on the attack again then just write her off.

Your instincts told you what she was like and she finally proved it. It appears she has no respect for you but as she is family I think it is worth giving her one more chance.

Dial Hard

Tbh, I think you both overreacted. She was out of line but you storming off, needing days to get over it and then saying you don't think your relationship will ever be the same again is very melodramatic. I've had waaaaaaay worse rows than that with my sister over the years and our relationship is rock solid.

Take your few days to calm down, then ring her and get it sorted.

TheadoreT

Fair play to your husband for lasting five minutes.

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1 point warning for Breach of Charter. Offer mature, sensible advice to the OP or don't post.

NSAman

Your husband sounds like a great guy.

one thing in your OP, has she a partner? No mention of him/her at all. Also the fact she calls when out and never when home. Is some else going on?

you are sisters. No point in writing her off yet. Next time you meet, meet alone. Talk it out. Simple.

shalom

If you can stand back and read your original post, Your sister in my view makes you carry all her own short comings.

Everything that is a problem about herself is projected onto you.

I'm sure you are not perfect, but take what you own and leave her with what she owns.

Most people in these family predicaments (imo) try and fix the situation, to make everything ok again and in doing so they again set themselves up for the same pattern.

I hope you can find some resolution for yourself, that keeps YOUR self value and worth intact. Leave her to find hers.

Big Bag of Chips

I don't know if I agree with Dial Hard. Some families argue and bicker and seem to just move on and forget. Some families don't or can't. I have a very difficult sister. Very difficult. Out of all the siblings she's the one that causes the most issues and brings an atmosphere with her.

I can completely understand you wanting to walk away from that atmosphere and not wanting to stay the night pretending not to be bothered. I had an argument with my sister a few years ago that resulted in her not speaking to me for 5 years! And honestly... It was very peaceful. We now talk again but I am very wary of her and our relationship is very superficial. I discuss nothing of any importance with her. She's always right. End of. Even our mother tells me to just agree. "If she says the sky is green, agree with her". It's not worth the argument.

I wouldn't necessarily feel the need to forgive and forget. But I wouldn't carry on the argument just for spites sake. Allow yourself the time to feel upset over being attacked and having the weekend ruined. Your sister seems to think life revolves around here and her visits when the reality is life carries ok for everyone else, work other commitments etc. Maybe reply to her text later telling her that you were very upset but that you have no desire to drag the argument out. But in future don't be so quick to jump when she calls. She doesn't expect it from your brother because he doesn't do it. She expects it (and doesn't appreciate it) from you because you've always done it.

Don't not talk to her just for the sake of making a point. But don't be too quick to dance to her tune either. Suit yourself when she's around. If something is convenient for you, do it. If it's not then say "Sorry, not around".

Was there something very specific on at 2pm yesterday that you needed to be there for, by the way?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120256773#Comment_120256773

Needing days to get over something is not melodramatic. People have different levels of sensitivity. Personally if I have an argument with a loved one I can feel almost sick for days. It's like a hangover.

To the OP, take a step back and ask yourself where the patterns are, with you, with your sister and with your mother. Be honest with yourself and own your own flaws. By the same token, do not put up with abuse of any kind or character assassinations or accept untrue accusations to keep the peace. Then decide how you want to proceed. Best of luck with it all.

I don't think you were the asshole.

While I agree with most of what BBOC says above, I'd leave her off and let her stew in it. I wouldn't be making first contact.

If you left: .

"She then said I would upset her boys and our mother."

Nothing about how upset you or your kids would be? Doesn't that say it all?

And then on top of it she throws a load of passive aggressive BS about "defending you" to the family?

It's obvious she takes you for granted. Stop letting her.

No way in hell I'd go to her to fix this. Let her come to you, and if she doesn't come with a big fat apology, leave her off.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257510#Comment_120257510

But the sister already tried to apologise and the OP ignored it. The ball is in her court, imo. Ok, a text apology mightn't be everyone's idea of ideal but it's the only way some people *can* apologise.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257526#Comment_120257526

She didn’t apologise, she said sorry for overreacting, which implies she stands by all the complaints she made, just that she complained too vigorously.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257526#Comment_120257526

After a row like that, a text is a token apology, plus, it was a qualified apology.

She didn't apologise for hurting her sister, she apologised for "over-reacting" which means she still feels she was right to say the things she said, just not in the way she said them.

I'd actually say it makes it worse.

However, the OP may feel differently, and shouldn't feel rushed into fixing this.

Clara B

Hi All

i appreciate the feedback.

Firstly-I did not run off in a huff. I am not a melodramatic person and I NEVER cry in front of ANYONE. I was so overwhelmed and having both my mother and sister tell me to stop shouting, when I wasn’t, and calm down just caused a rush of emotion-which I did in the laundry so the kids would not see.

I left because all our kids deserved a night of fun and I could not stay and pretend I was ok with what had just happened. My sisters outburst devastated me and having cried I felt weak and vulnerable -she looked up to heaven when she saw me cry. There was no love….nothing. Her only concern was that o had not slotted into the window she had allocated me.

She did text and ask to talk. She doesn’t want to go home with bad feelings.

That isn’t an apology-she is trying to make herself feel better.

she mad excuses about being annoyed with my brother and getting her period etc. again, excuses not an apology. I have replied and said I appreciate the token gesture-but I’m not inclined to try and make her feel better so she can go home happy.

she said she said things she shouldn’t have, as did I. I don’t have rose tinted glasses….I said nothing as she wouldn’t allow me to speak.

She was immensely disrespectful-she talks to her husband that way. I see it and I have pulled her up on it. She knows what she’s doing when she does it and she did it to me.

I have told her we will speak in a week or so. I have a lot happening in my life lately, and to be faced with that from her and a mother who doesn’t take sides but ultimately takes hers is enough **** for 1 week.

i have no interest in speaking to either of them until I am feeling less emotional and can adequately express how I feel without balling.

Clara B

I cant write her off. We lost our dad and family is everything to me. Hubby always says I let her away with murder-but I do it to keep the peace.

The thing is, I know , even when calmer heads prevail I won’t tell her how I really feel because what’s the point! She will turn it on me, I’ll be the villain and ultimately our kids will suffer. Cousins need each other. I bite my tongue because it keeps the peace.

I saw a side of her yesterday I’d never seen before.

Clara B

What’s that supposed to mean

Jarhead_Tendler

Your sister sounds like a self centred control freak. You did nothing wrong. She kept nipping at you and you eventually bit back a little. No harm to stand up to her.

Clara B

Yep-I’m finally realising she’s the only person in the world I have allowed to walk all over me. I am no shrinking violet-yet with her I’ve been conditioned to accept behaviour I would never accept from anyone else

raclle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257292#Comment_120257292

I have the exact same superficial relationship with my sister so I know what you mean. I don't know if its her bi-polar or just her general personality but we'll never be close because of the way she is.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120259017#Comment_120259017

I lost my dad last year but that wont bring me any closer to my sister. If family means that much to you try and find out what's going on in your sisters private life that maybe causing these issues even though she should not be taking it out on you.

HildaOgdenx

when I call here she rarely picks ups and when she calls me it’s not to say hi-it’s to moan about an issue and ask for a solution. She does this when she is out walking. As soon as she gets home she ends the call.

It's worth bearing in mind that we train people in how to treat us. I'm not saying that as a criticism, by the way. There can be family dynamics at play too where one person is somehow regarded as the saint (one of those in my own family), the one who has to be minded, or the one everyone else kowtows to, out of habit. And so on. Those things can be very hard to break away from. Plus there's the wish to keep the peace for the sake of parents and so forth.

She has been so used to having you dance attendance on her, take her phone calls while she doesn't bother to pick up your calls, you rushing to be wherever she decrees and at what time, that when that didn't happen for once, she lost the plot.

Hubby always says I let her away with murder-but I do it to keep the peace.

I think a lot of resentment has built up on your part (understandably imo) and that's why things escalated like they did. She was probably genuinely taken aback that you didn't jump to her bidding to be there at 2 pm and had the cheek (in her eyes) to turn up at 5 instead.

Btw, the stuff she said about defending you to others was most likely just said to hurt you. Nothing more, so try not to dwell on it.

I think you are right to let things cool down all around. I think it's a good opportunity to think about what you want from this relationship in the future. You know the expression about how you can pick your friends but not your family.

I'm not for a minute suggesting that you cut her off or anything drastic like that and I know that is not what you want.

But have a think about your own feelings and boundaries when it comes to her behaviour.

Then start afresh by doing what suits YOU in relation to her.

Clara B

You are right and I’ve always known that. She dominates her marriage and i don’t think she is currently very happy in it, which I hate.

She tells me arguments she has with hubby and the way they speak to each other is horrible and degrading. She has learned this behaviour as a defence mechanism and that’s not good.

Her hubby is quiet and nice and pleasant-but no match for her. She spoils for fights with him and picks and picks until she gets one. I think she does it because she’s unhappy and it’s her outlet. I don’t like visiting them in the UK as there’s always an argument you have to watch and there’s so much tension in the house. My brother says the same.

She needs to address the root cause of her unhappiness and tackle it. Her boys deserve a better environment than they are currently getting.

Hannibal_Smith

 I don’t know if I’ll ever have the same relationship with her again

When you say you'll never have the same relationship with her again, maybe she'll have learned that she can't speak to you the way has and so the change in the relationship won't be all that bad.

You don't actually seem to like her very much, your relationship seems to be a lot of biting your tongue and you don't enjoy visiting her. You seem to like the brother in law more than you like her. Some siblings don't get along. It's perfectly OK to keep the ones you don't get along with at arms length. Maybe instead of going back to the relationship you had, which clearly wasn't working for you, you develop a new one from here?

Big Bag of Chips

I agree with Hannibal above, it's no bad thing that you think your relationship won't ever be the same again. 'The same' means you going back to being at her beck and call, biting your tongue, tying yourself in knots and stressing to be where she says at the time she decides. Feeling uncomfortable in her house listening to her spoiling for a fight.

You admit that you have let her walk over you when you wouldn't accept that from anyone else in your life. So now is your chance to draw your line. Draw up boundaries of what you are willing and not willing to accept. You don't have to openly discuss this with her. But you can show her through your actions what you are now no longer willing to tolerate.

Cousins don't "need" each other. Cousins will have a relationship one way or another. They might not meet up for months, even years, and when they do they can slot very easily back into a comfortable relationship. If your nephews live in the UK then your sons' friends are going to be more important relationships in their lives than their cousins.

Clara B

Thanks guys. Between here and hubby I had the strength to tell my mother and sister how disappointed I was and how they made me feel.

I realise they are both narcissistic people and both have denied doing anything wrong-in fact they have blamed me.

Being honest-i loved my dad, I love my brother-we were buddies. I never felt good enough for my mam and sister. I was always trying to please them.

I put my cards in the table today. It’s up to them now. I’m not perfect and if they want to engage in productive adult conversation and have their say I’m ready and willing to listen . If not-I have them 40 years, the next 40 are mine!

raclle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120260433#Comment_120260433

Maybe instead of going back to the relationship you had, which clearly wasn't working for you, you develop a new one from here?

In what way? Do you mean just be civil with each other for family gatherings and cut loose everything else?

...Ghost...

You can't choose your family, but you can choose to cut them out of your life. I have concluded that it doesn't matter who people are....family or not; if they are trouble in your life, then cut them out. I have cut my parents and sister out of my life for various reasons, namely that they are back-stabbing liars with no respect for anyone. They are welcome to see my kids and all that. I just don't engage and make sure I have something else to be doing rather than breathe the same air as them. Best thing I ever did.

brokenbad

@Clara B - your story reminds me of an incident which occurred between my sister and i over 3 years ago (still unresolved)

My wife and i used to be very close to my younger sister and her husband - we both had young children in common and would have been regular visitors to each others homes. However, there was always a very narcissistic, short tempered and selfish side to my sister that i was aware of but didn't pay too much heed to it until it came to our doorstep.....

My sister struggled with PND after the birth of her second child and everyone was walking on eggshells around her for months after. My wife would often take her two kids at a moments notice to give my sister a breather and some time to catch up on sleep, housework, etc. I used to say to my wife that my sister took advantage of her good nature because there were other family members on both sides who had kids and were never asked to mind kids...

On one rare occasion when my wife could not mind her 2 children due to prior commitments, my sister threw a strop and ghosted my wife for 2 months. I confronted my sister about this and she of course flatly denied everything and accused my wife of being a drama queen. I said that other siblings had observed and noted the ghosting also but she denied it all.

Long story short - things quickly escalated into a verbal slanging match and hurtful things were said on both sides before all communication was cut.

She has my parents wrapped around her finger - their excuse was "you know what she's like - better just to apologise and make up!"

Following 6 months of radio silence and with Xmas approaching , i did what any decent person would do and extended an olive branch with an apology from things said my end - however i was met with a flat refusal to reconcile.. Words used were "they are dead to me" were relayed back to me from another sibling who had being trying to broker peace.

Fast forward a year later - my wife's elderly dad died after a short illness and there was no commiserations or attendance at his removal or funeral from my estranged sister or her husband....

My parents and another sibling who is close to my sister also did not attend the funeral for fear of putting my sisters nose out of joint.........

Both my wife and i were very upset at the fact that a death in the family could not bring her to her senses....

I now realise that she has poisoned them against us and communication from them has dried up also over the past 6 months (including Xmas!)

Two other siblings are disgusted by her behaviour and have made it known to her - however she won't hear about it.

It has caused a huge divide in our family and the outlook looks grim.

I am at the point now where i just don't care anymore and my wife and kids are just getting on with our own lives....

Sad thing is - there are young kids affected wo will grow up not knowing their cousins.

Its a horrible situation.

JoChervil

I find it weird that both your sister and your mum told you to stop shouting, when you say you didn't. Or that your sister always defended you with a family. I would investigate it. Do you think it is possible that you don't remember parts of what happened with them?

Larbre34

No, you didn't overreact.

It just goes to prove the old adage, that no good turn ever goes unpunished.

My wife and her sister had a similar dynamic for a long number of years and I always held my tongue until she insulted my wife in a really terrible way in front of me and I snapped and told her what I and everyone else thought of her.

It certainly reset their relationship and my wife doesn't go out of her way to do anything for her anymore and my wife's life is all the more serene for it.

Stick to your guns, you were being taken advantage of and you addressed it. How could that be wrong.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120259017#Comment_120259017

She's using you plain and simple.

If it were me, I'd limit yourself to attending family events, dropping the kids off, but be "busy" when asked to do anything else.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120269705#Comment_120269705

You hear about similar stories in a lot of families.

I think with anyone, family or not, same thing. If someone only ever contacts you when they want something, and never just to hang out. They aren't really your friend.

eusap

Its called Gas Lighting!

"Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation in which the abuser attempts to sow self-doubt and confusion in their victim's mind. Typically, gaslighters are seeking to gain power and control over the other person, by distorting reality and forcing them to question their own judgment and intuition."

Often people who Gaslight also follow the path of Attack is the best form of defense!

Your sister on the day was hormonal, somethings went wrong (she probably wanted you to make dinner for everybody and then she didn't bother, it can't be her fault so its all your fault and you got the brunt end of it! (unfortunately)

The best way forward is stop jumping/dancing to her tune, you can be friends but she takes care of herself and don't take on her responsibilities

Clara B

That’s so awful! What a horrible thing to go through. It is lucky you and your wife are a team. My brother said that the family between your 4 walls is what’s important and I realize now he’s right.

Clara B

I would always doubt myself 100% and I would question it were it not for my daughter, who’s 16. She was in another room watching the smallies, but she heard almost everything.

She told me she had. I asked her if I’d shouted or been out of line at all and she said no. I barely spoke.

Shes True North for me. She doesn’t sugar coat. We have raised her to always be honest with us.

I would have doubted everything were it not for her.

Clara B

I now k ow it’s gaslighting. I would never have seen it were it not for what happened.

She has reached out. She has apologised as much as she can. I’ve accepted but said I need time to process everything.

she has said she feels responsible for me being angry with our mother. I’ve said she should-she instigated the situation.

my mother has still not contacted me. She has rang my aunties to cry-but she hasn’t tried to talk to me.

It has nothing to do with her taking sides or now. It’s about her not stepping in and stopping my sister abusing me.

it’s also about her spending the entire weekend with my sister, helping her cope and not once checking in on me.

HildaOgdenx

Mod Note - As you appear to have reached some conclusions on the situation for which the thread was originally opened, OP, I will close it off at this point, in order that it doesn't become a blog.

Thanks to all who offered advice.

Hilda