Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Geert von Instetten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122488092#Comment_122488092

It absolutely indicates that the system is being exploited, that IPAT are capable of distinguishing between valid and invalid asylum claims is the bare minimum, to present that as evidence of a functioning asylum system is deluded. If the majority of those applying for a Government scheme are ineligible, the scheme is evidently unfit for propose and potentially being exploited - if the overwhelming majority of applicants for Jobseeker’s Allowance were being refused because they were in employment, the Department of Social Protection would be launching an investigation into the issue. At present estimates, between 50% and 70% of asylum seekers in the State are secondary movements from the rest of the EU, that is manifestly exploitation of the system. Policies of deterrence include limiting employment, which the referenced article notes has a “modest” impact, though I’m of the opinion that increasing the threshold for protection is the primary deterrent, these policies are effective, as Denmark demonstrates.

amykl_1987

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122488104#Comment_122488104

7300 rejected applications in last 20 months, under 100 deportations.

Surely the appeals process isn't that slow given there would already be a stack of rejected applications prior to that or could it be the government want it that way? Is the will to do it there at all.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122488139#Comment_122488139

The appeals process really is that slow.

amykl_1987

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122488165#Comment_122488165

Thqts nuts

Viscount Aggro

Dublin airport is pathetic.

I went through arrivals area recently... a few immigration officers standing around, joking and laughing.

Yes, they were stopping certain people on the tarmac, and it's racial profiling going on.

It needs to be more like Frankfurt airport. The self scanning entry gates on arrival. No passport to scan? You are not getting in.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122488120#Comment_122488120

It isn’t the least bit deluded to present evidence that the system is operating as intended by demonstrating that it is operating as intended, regardless of the number of applications, regardless of the number of applications approved or rejected. There is no indication or reason to suspect exploitation within the system. There is every indication of exploitation outside of the system, which is something which Denmark will find itself having to grapple with in the coming years as a result of it’s immigration policies which have been deemed to be in violation of international human rights law.

I don’t care one way or the other for your opinion if you haven’t any evidence to support it. As for your argument equating exploitation of the welfare system with exploitation of the immigration system, well that’s an argument that’s been put forward before, without any evidence:

https://archive.ph/yctAn

No mystery there, it’s David McWilliams.

Geert von Instetten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122488206#Comment_122488206

Assessing the validity of asylum claims is one aspect of the asylum system, that it is functioning properly is the minimum expected. It remains the case that between 50% to 70% of asylum seekers in the State are secondary movements from the EU - to argue that the system is functioning because IPAT are capable of issuing first instance decisions is absolutely deluded. As your own sources indicate, policies of deterrence are effective, Denmark demonstrates that and I expect that the EU will follow eventually.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122488004#Comment_122488004

I believe Ireland had the highest rate for one month recently, is that the case longer term?

Ireland's not in a position to implement the Danish approach for numerous reasons but the most obvious one is that we can't simply push people towards other EU countries, which is all Denmark appears to be doing.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122487279#Comment_122487279

There's been several posts on this thread of 'research' and 'facts' found to have come from eugenics sites.

All were under the guise of looking for reasonable debate while demeaning IPAs in some form as an inferior group.

Personally I just consider it hatemongering and don't think too much about whether it's from people who'd meet the criteria for eugenicist, far-right, xenophobic, white-supremicists, hard right, extremist cult etc

H_Lime

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469476#Comment_122469476

Purely as a counterpoint in the spirit of fairness....

What do you think fionnula and fintan would do if an ipas centre was to open up across the road in their leafy suburb of well to do folk? The suburb with tall electric gates, private education and private medical insurance.

They're not going to be draped in tri colours at a barracade being tear gassed. They're going to pick up the phone and ring the developer friend who's right with (insert any party) and whisper in his shell like that this just won't do.

Ten or twenty of those phone calls to the right ears is far more effective.

Never be dismissive of an angry proletariat, let them eat cake tends to lead to problems...

Just an observation :)

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122488902#Comment_122488902

Well if they have tall electric gates, they probably wouldn't be that bothered. There is social housing already in those areas. Some "natives" get lucky enough to live in places they could never afford on their own. If you want to kick them back to Coolock and replace them with IPAs then you can break it to them.

I just think it's kind of silly in this day and age to be falling for grifters' nonsense. It's not some mysterious bogemen of your "Fionnula and Fintan" sipping champagne and thinking 'how can we fuck with the plebs today my dear - oh, I know, wouldn't it be jolly good if we got some Syrians in claim asylum".

Thinking you would have some kind of victory by putting possible chancers up in expensive luxury accommodation to piss off those imagined bogeymen is bonkers.

Scar001

So the 7300 rejections in the last 20 months.

Have they to fend for themselves and paddle their own canoe??

amykl_1987

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122489086#Comment_122489086

NO. They appeal courtesy of the support of the NGO sector and drag it out forever. I didn't realise the appeals took so long

Geert von Instetten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122488346#Comment_122488346

Ireland has the highest per capita rate of asylum applications per recent EU statistics, yes. In as far as deterrence is concerned, Ireland is an island on the edge of the EU, Denmark is a country bordering Sweden and Germany, two perennial asylum destinations, the idea that Ireland is in less of a position to implement policies of deterrence is laughable. Between 50% and 70% of asylum applicants in the State are secondary movements, policies of deterrence would deter that majority from abandoning existing asylum claims in other EU Member States and exploiting the asylum system.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122489086#Comment_122489086

The majority will stay and eventually will be granted citizenship. They will get all the supports they need until then. Processing applications is a waste of time and money as we will never deport significant numbers. We would actually be better off scrapping processing as in reality it serves no purpose.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122487110#Comment_122487110

It's just when I'd think of somebody with no identity my first thought thought would be the hatebots spewing back whatever the algorithms have told them this week... 'bogus' asylum seekers, burn the mosques, Ireland is full, it's the NGOs, it's ROG, it's the hoteliers, it's the MSM, 'safe' countries...

Does Ireland even have the best welfare rate? I tried googling myself and actually couldn't find a comparison.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122489118#Comment_122489118

By recent statistics you mean that one recent month or were there more?

Ireland can't implement Denmark's approach because we can't simply push people towards other EU countries, we're too dependent on the continued success of the union. Not to mention the folly in investing heavily in something which has no long term future.

I'm not sure how Denmark even intends to continue it's approach anyway, now that it's had this about turn and wants into the migration pact

Geert von Instetten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122489237#Comment_122489237

Ah, interesting. I was under the impression you misunderstood your own article, it appears you understood it perfectly well and are engaging in disinformation - I expect it of you, though a little less blatantly perhaps. Please, point out exactly where Denmark has indicated that it intends to opt-in to the EU Migration Pact.

amykl_1987

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122489168#Comment_122489168

And where will we house the many hundreds of thousands of people that will inevitably flood in once that happens?

I'm currently trying to buy an apartment in Ashbourne. It's a soul destroying process, mental torture. I've been outbid significantly previously as there is huge demand and poor supply currently. This idea will just force an awful lot more Irish people to emigrate, your teachers, nurses etc. to chase better pay, better working condition, better work life balance etc. in the long run thats bad for us who don't want to live in Canada, Australia, new Zealand or Dubai etc

Govt policy Is just very short sighted.

amykl_1987

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122489210#Comment_122489210

What other European country is promising keys to own door accommodation within 4 months? Rent free too ......

Scar001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122489168#Comment_122489168

And therein lies the crux of the situation.

7300 scammers who should have all benefits cut.

They won't be long self deporting when the free handouts stop.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122489279#Comment_122489279

You'll no doubt be able to show me where that's being promised?

amykl_1987

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122489304#Comment_122489304

A govt minister actually announced this 3 or 4 years ago

https://gript.ie/watch-roderic-ogormans-video-promising-everything-to-asylum-seekers-should-never-have-been-made/

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122489269#Comment_122489269

My apologies, I thought Denmark was trying to join a migration pact 2.0.

Instead it's working with an alternate smaller group to create 'complimentary' measures.

Much of a muchness I'd think, neither points to Denmark being so happy with it's independent stance, as we had been led to believe. I guess they see the writing on the wall.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122489318#Comment_122489318

You should consider getting your news from a more reliable source.

No promise was ever made.

A white paper was published, saying they intended to move to own door rented accommodation, while making it clear it would be extremely difficult to do so during the housing crisis.

It was also made clear that whatever plans they had were dependent on numbers of arrivals not increasing. At the time there were only a couple of thousand IPAs arriving per year.

Geert von Instetten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122489321#Comment_122489321

You misread your own article? Augurs well for you interpretation of your other sources…

According to your article, Denmark is one EU Member State, of a majority of Member States, that is dissatisfied with the proposals contained in the EU Migration Pact and is calling for the adoption of measures of externalisation.

It is in Denmark’s interest to reduce asylum EU-wide, the effectiveness of policies of deterrence is evident and indisputable, however Denmark has considered closing the border with Sweden following an increase in crime committed by “Swedes”. It is in Denmark’s interest for other EU Member State’s to implement intelligent asylum policies, even if their own domestic policies work well.

amykl_1987

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122489350#Comment_122489350

And do you thing NGOs and Asylum Seekers will look into the finer details or the small print, or did they see the headline grabbers and think, yes I will get me some of that.

We now have asylum seekers taking legal action against the state for not providing them with accommodation to a certain standard.

OGorman's comments are wildly irresponsible. They are also pie in the sky nonsense. We will see a metro from Dublin airport to the city centre before we see a coherent effective and achievable plan for housing, education, gardai number and healthcare

He should not have been speaking in this way in public unless we as a country had the ability to back it up.

Francie Barrett

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ireland-applied-to-return-2758-asylum-seekers-in-the-past-four-years-but-only-31-were-sent-back/a593136726.html

Not much solidarity from our European "partners".

riddles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122489272#Comment_122489272

in a lot of cases people are outbid by NGO’s who are bogus charities funded by your tax payments. It’s outrageous.

Headshot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122489820#Comment_122489820

Who would blame them….