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Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 5/1/24*

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭Run Forest Run


    Very often it's more interesting what we, as citizens, DON'T get to vote on. Rather than what we DO get to vote on. And it can be a very good gauge of just how healthy a nation's democracy actually is.

    As you rightly say, our country's immigration policies have a profound effect on all of our lives, and yet we seem to have very little say in the matter. Who could we even vote for in the next election, that might better represent the mood/concerns of the general population? Nobody... and that's a very worrying state of affairs.

    And as regards ever getting some sort of referendum on a crucial issue such as this one? Far too risky, they wouldn't dream of giving the citizens that sort of power over our own lives!



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,918 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Who could we even vote for in the next election, that might better represent the mood/concerns of the general population? Nobody

    If you don't like any of the options on the political menu, you or others of like mind need to get into the kitchen and rustle up something yourself. That's how democracies work...



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    New rules on party funding have made it extremely difficult for a new party with real capacity for change to emerge



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,834 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Yeah, and realistically, any new party would need years and years of presence in the system to eventually get enough support to get any sort of real power, and I'm not sure if we can wait that long considering how bad things are. Political monopolies are very hard to break, no matter how bad said parties are. The UK & America are great examples of that.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 18,850 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Unlike many others on here, I understand Ireland's obligations as it pertains to people seeking asylum.


    But have you any figures or evidence for the claim that "refugees have been extremely beneficial to the Irish economy" (emphasis added).

    Are you lumping in "immigrants" with refugees?


    We do have to accept IP applicants and we have to process them and we are obliged to grant asylum where it is warranted.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭clytemnestra


    Agree. It's ridiculous to make sweeping generalisations about "immigrant children" as we have had people from so many very different cultures settle here. In my experience (living in a town with a very high and new immigrant population) children from some cultures settle well and will fit in easily to Irish life and contribute to our society. Others: total disaster, do not integrate, take huge resources from us and give nothing back but trouble and future generations of wasters. This piece in the Indo today:

    I agree that Polish people could be represented more but her use of the word "invisible" is interesting. I think the fact that we don't see Polish people forming separate special interest groups and lobbying for resources and attention to be diverted towards them and claiming grievances and wrongs that are inflicted on them - surely that reflects how well they've settled in rather than the opposite? I've worked with and lived alongside many Polish people and found them hardworking, friendly and decent. I don't see their kids forming gangs or causing mayhem in my town. I expect that they will retain cultural and emotional ties to their ancestral land but in a generation will completely blend in with other Irish citizens. I wish this totally unremarkable kind of immigration was more celebrated and encouraged.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,059 ✭✭✭Packrat


    We truly are the most apathetic nation of utter turkeys the world has ever produced.

    No country in history has had ALL its elected political representatives advocating the destruction of its culture, customs, and traditions by way of population replacement on the scale going on here.

    Our young forced to emigrate whilst they invite in the dregs of the world to replace them at our expense and cost.

    Worse - a significant proportion of our indigenous population seem to hate themselves and their country men and women so much that they are cheerleading this and helping those who benefit financially from this in slapping down anyone who voices opposition or calls for a discussion on where our country is going.

    It's a mirror image of when the RCC controlled us and we happily acquiesced.

    I'm no far right voter - I was actually going to vote SF for the first time next election due to my anger at government corruption, nepotism and the balls they made of Covid, health, and the endless waste.

    Now they are actually worse but there's no reasonable party to vote for, unless you're a raving looney like the NP or the Freedom crowd who I won't vote for.


    For the first time in my life I'm ashamed to be Irish.


    It's truly disgusting.

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,849 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    Time for a zero refugee policy?

    Time for building houses?

    Fixed the thread. We don't have an immigration problem, we have a housing one.

    It's a year since this war started and FFG haven't even managed to get some prefabs up.

    Out. Out. Out.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There is genuine people fleeing horrific situations in the world and they need our help...and then there is people who are fleeing parts of the world that are not in conflict whatsoever. The chancers need to be weeded out in order to create a fairer system for those in need



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,461 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo




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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There is a cohort of lunatics out there who believe that a small island with considerably poor infrastructure, in the middle of a housing crisis, can house the whole world without any questions asked and unfortunately these same people dominate the conversation in this country in favour of a sensible debate on a well thought out immigration policy and they are backed up by weak politicians.

    Yes, i fully accept that there is people in dire circumstance that need our help and yes we do have skills shortages in certain sectors, but there has to be more scrutiny on those applying for asylum and also work/residence permits. Yes the Irish moved everywhere during the famine and were accommodated all over the world, but this doesn't mean that you abandon logic completely.



  • Registered Users Posts: 54,495 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    No… can we please quit this decades old used excuse. It’s fooking pathetic. “Shur didn’t the Irish travel everywhere.” Not at all relevant to what this debate is about: Refugees coming here seeking asylum due to not wanting to be living in their homeland.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Hes in great company in recent times, but surely one of the worst politicians this country has ever produced??? As weak a man as I've ever seen in power.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25 AIDAN8319


    Id be in favour of a zero refugee policy until we get our own house in order. If we cant even house our own people, how can we take Asylum seekers in.

    The irony really is the main people championing mass in-migration are the ones primarily responsible for the housing crisis currently. Fine Gael

    Another issue I have is these asylum seekers coming from other European countries. Farcical stuff



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,962 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Well advertisg for genuine refugees to come here and letting them live on streets isnt going to help them too much or a drafty warehouse or god knows what.

    Maybe letting go to a country that can actually house them would make sense and more helpful.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25 AIDAN8319


    The main issue with that though is, other european countries, especially Germany & Italy have much tougher immigration laws & they wouldnt be able to make appeal after appeal if they were found to be illegal there



  • Registered Users Posts: 977 ✭✭✭lmao10


    Fighting a losing battle lads.

    It's natural for people to want to help other humans in need and to see them as humans like yourself. You can never win when you're completely outnumbered by people like that. Spouting bile in echo chambers feels good but the end result will be the same because it's the right result.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25 AIDAN8319


    First of all, its not a losing battle, the protests have been growing since late last year.

    Secondly, no one has a problem helping others in genuine need if they can afford to, they have a problem though helping illegal asylum seekers who're tearing up their documents & coming from countries not at war.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Jarhead_Tendler




  • Registered Users Posts: 17,839 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Irish public opinion is not going to be of much help in the specific area of refugees and asylum seekers. There are global norms in place such as international refugee law which every democracy is expected to sign up to and adhere to. The government can certainly consult with the public how and where asylum seekers will be placed, but opting out of the refugee system is a total non runner, not unless the country wants to 'go rogue'.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,364 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    You’re starting to sound a bit anxious there Mark.

    It’s also natural for people to push back against others who are taking them for a ride. Those people ripping up their passports mid-flight, the Georgians, Albanians, Zimbabweans, South Africans making spurious asylum claims.

    People don’t like their generosity being abused. That’s entirely natural. There will be a correction to address this anomalous blip and we will return to admitting more sustainable numbers of asylum seekers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,611 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Its not about assigning blame.


    It is about dealing with the problem of reducing fraudlent asylum claims which are putting a burden on our society and reducing funds and goodwill to genuone refugees.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25 AIDAN8319


    How many times does this have to be discussed, we have an opt in/opt out policy in place with the EU so we dont need to go 'rogue' to address the issue.

    Secondly, if there was progress towards addressing the ridiculous delay & appeal process of the asylum application process, people might be a bit more relaxed about everything.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,834 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    It's natural for people to want to help other humans 

    Totally agree, but the basic principle is that you look after your nearest first, then others if you can. We're not looking after our nearest, so we can't look after others. If the first problem didn't exist, you'd have a point, but it does, so you don't. Humans are primarily self centered, and if they aren't being looked after, they'll care little about the fact that others aren't. You've a genuinely naive view of human psychology, as very few would allow themselves to suffer in the name of benefiting others, especially others that they've no real connection to.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 40,537 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Of course it is. You dont have people screaming "get them out" for no reason.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,611 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Unless you have concrete examples of posters who said that here you should remove that comment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,758 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Right wing governments in Italy, Sweden, Austria nowadays. Denmark aiming for zero asylum seekers n the Brits wanna send them to Rwanda.

    All countries enriched a few years earlier than us. Are those countries residents spouting bile in echo chambers n fighting a losing battle too?!



  • Registered Users Posts: 25 AIDAN8319


    Not to mention France nearly voted in Marie Le Pen who's far right, if she was a little more capable & moderate in some of her views, I believe she would have got in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,466 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Not to mention France nearly voted in Marie Le Pen who's far right

    No they didn't, the only time there was been a wider margin in a Presidential Election was her in 2017 and when her father was completely humiliated in 2002.

    Austria and Italy have had centre right parties in the recent past and the Swedish PM is about as right wing as Ryan Giggs. Here he is with his children.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,834 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Crazy, that "right wing" means racial purity to you. Most on the right don't care about stuff like that, some do, but most don't.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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