Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

Fotish

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122096720#Comment_122096720

Abraham Lincoln said, "Democracy is a rule of the people, for the people and by the people". It means that democracy is a form of government in which the rulers are elected by the people. The citizens of the country elect the Government to rule the country and the elected government work for the welfare of the people.

Nobody told our government !!!!

willyvanilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122096847#Comment_122096847

Not to start some political discourse, but it could well be argued that the likes of haughey and his apprentice ahern were utter charlatans, but at least the roguery could be forgiven to some extent as they got a lot of stuff done for the people while getting their silk shirts in Paris. Not great, but something.

This current crowd of political brass necks are just pure balls to the wall brazen in accumulating money for their mates. There's no upside whatsoever.

Whenever you're faced with a choice of picking whether its incompetency or conspiracy, just see if there are vast sums of money at stake. That's the deciding factor. And there are billions upon billions of euros tied up in this situation, all flowing freely like there's no tomorrow.

Its far too easy to laugh about conspiracy, but how on earth could any sentient being look at this situation and not question it to such extent? Whos fault is that?

As I said earlier, the optics, and indeed reality, of the difference between the government's response to the housing crisis for irish people versus their response to housing migrants is like a monty python sketch.

It's unbelievable. And therein lies the problem.

picturehangup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122096898#Comment_122096898

This.

willyvanilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122097027#Comment_122097027

The problem, or brilliance, of the situation is that there has been a successful, very successful, propaganda-like vilification of anything that goes against migration whatsoever.

It's the equivalent of putting a wall of the cutest kittens around an oil refinery spewing pollution left right and centre.

If you even try to get to the refinery, you'll have an army of people ready to brow beat you into the ground because you have to move the cute kittens out of the way.

Hands up who can go out on a march against rampant migration without seriously worrying about the impact on their job, or perceived views in their social life and so? Not many.

And therein lies the beauty of this from the industry's point of view.

Mass migration, I don't think anyone could disagree, is obviously a boon for employers and especially for larger corporations. It's fantastic for certain asset holders as it drives prices up, for smugglers, for traders, for contract givers and takers for "dealing" with the situation.

There is in fact dwindlingly little of benefit from mass migration unless you're profiting from it. Everyone else, including migrants, tend to lose.

It really is shocking how over X amount of time a vastly stupid premise has been twisted into being a virtue. You have to hand it to the them. "Them" being a multiple overlap of vested interests at odds with overall good of societies.

It's worth pointing out the simplicity of the problem.

If it wasn't for the kitten-like protection fostered, people would have been outside on the streets years ago.

Whether accidentally stumbled upon or constructed, it's really quite clever.

All that said, inevitability is inevitability, as evidenced by recent and increasing hostility to it all.

Danye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122096657#Comment_122096657

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2023/06/23/just-six-of-7700-asylum-seekers-accommodated-in-dublin-are-housed-in-d4/

Could any tell me if this proposed accommodation in Donnybrook ever happened?

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/former-nursing-home-in-ballsbridge-to-be-used-as-accommodation-for-asylum-seekers-1571589.html

SuperBowserWorld

Imagine being a young healthy man with no responsibilities and a country will pay huge money to put you up in the most salubrious accommodation, pay your bills, etc etc and you don't have to do anything in return ?

You don't even have to co-operate or tell them where you came from or what you are running from.

Who dreams up this stuff ?

joeymcg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122097168#Comment_122097168

And people give out about white male privilege

willyvanilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122097168#Comment_122097168

I honestly can't put the blame on some randomer being promised relative fortunes (to their current situation) marching forth to grab it.

Just imagine the levels of dishonest information being fed to them. Free homes, better society, free healthcare, and all you have to do is literally sneak in and then wait for a while to get it.

Imagine a fictitious country relatively speaking. An irish man or woman, if you simply manage to get a foot on their soil, will eventuallybe given a mansion, free healthcare hundreds of years advanced to what we have, zero social problems, 100% guaranteed safety, and even if youdo decide to do nothing but sit on your bum all day, the government of that country will give you, no strings attached, something like €5000 a week. And if you have children they'll give you thousands more per week.

How many Irish people would chance it? A lot!

The problem being, of course, that the fictitious country would soon sink beneath the weight of people. You might have such far flung consequences like a """"housing crisis"""", for example.

Hence ye olde fashioned concept of borders and legitimacy.

No, the blame entirely lies on those who profit from it at inception.

Imagine 20 years ago having a dilapidated building, and up rocks your best mate from your favourite political group, "ill make you a millionaire before the year is out if you get on board with this bull. Its the easiest money you'll ever make, no questions". And they'd be right.

The way I see it, you have an infinite well of migrants ready to risk it all, and a group of connected people ready to make a fortune off them. Talk about a disastrous duo for society.

If you like, migrants are the bullets for vested interests guns. Each separately on their own are of no concern. Put them together, however, and its a shooting spree.

Take away the ammunition, those vested groups are rendered harmless against society.

boetstark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122096487#Comment_122096487

They are more concerned with copying american universities support of Palestinians and blocking tourists from viewing the book of Kells.

willyvanilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122097253#Comment_122097253

We'll see how their priorities change once they try to find a home to live in of their own, or a creche or school place or are put on a trolley in a hospital.

It'll be fairly rapid once the luxurious idealogies become too expensive.

Can't blame them though. It's simply a case of growing up and maturing into an adult. Bit depressing in a way, but hasn't it always been the way!

prunudo

the march on Monday will shape how the country proceeds in the lead up to the elections. If the numbers are big and the authorities mess it up, lets see how soundbite Simon handles the week ahead.

Geuze

Do we ever actually deport anybody?

What do you have to do to be deported?

If an AS has been:

• refused asylum in three other countries
• uses a false passport
• then destroys that passport
• enters Ireland illegally

why does it take us two years to decide on his asylum application?

It should take less than two days!!

Yet people in Ireland defend these bogus AS!!!

After following asylum cases for 20 years, since the early waves of west Africans, I am convinced that all asylum-seekers are bogus.

We need to move towards a target of "zero asylum".

dalyboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122097213#Comment_122097213

”Take away the ammunition, those vested groups are rendered harmless against society”

This.. although I’d go all the way with this. I really hope there’s a hardline political party in the future that takes these vested interests to the cleaners.

Asset strip them (and their families) for their corruption. Publicly disgrace them too. When that’s complete move on to 10 - 15 years in prison for fraud and treason. Then justice will be complete and Ireland can properly move forward.

willyvanilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122097272#Comment_122097272

I said it before, the difference in government response to housing migrants versus tackling the chronic housing crisis for irish people is unbelievable.

Actually unbelievable.

Add in the no doubt billions of euros in this industry, and it is indeed an industry with inputs and outputs and profit and cost, and it looks mighty suspicious.

If you look at some of the companies and individuals involved it's like a parody of mafia.

Reading an article on that illegal development in wicklow, it was like "this site was registered to Joe, but Joe may or may not be corporeal, therefire Joe's cousin, Mary, owns a 14% of a fence that was previously owned by Mick. Mick lives in the seychelles where he makes 5 nails per month for wood sourced by Barry who owns the walls of the shed in the upper right corner of the field in wicklow that is half owned by George who used to run a business called "business inc" in the Bahamas but was bought out by Anne who sits on the county council who gifted it to her dalmatian who has semi legal obligation to do certain things perhaps. Anyway, someone somewhere is receiving €200 million from someone in government and its great".

Meanwhile you have people preaching about migration as a saintly and scholarly objective. Can they not look at the types of people profiting off this for God's sake, those are the ones they are truly supporting.

There'll be investigation into this debacle sooner or later.

Is it any surprise that now the magnifying glassed are coming out there's a whole load of public figures deciding to "move on"? That's funny!

Geert von Instetten

I agree that the threshold for protection has to be increased considerably, particularly in as far as it relates to lesser forms of protection such as Humanitarian Leave to Remain. In 2015 the McMahon report recommended extending Leave to Remain to asylum seekers with a deportation order, provided they were in Direct Provision for a period in excess of five years. In 2020 the Day Report recommended reducing that time period and extending Leave to Remain to asylum seekers with a deportation order, provided they were in Direct Provision for a period in excess of two years. In 2021, a year after the Day Report, a general amnesty was announced in the form of the Regularisation of Long-Term Undocumented Migrants Scheme. In effect, an asylum seeker with a spurious asylum claim is afforded the opportunity to manipulate the asylum system through a serious of vexatious appeals and is rewarded for this with the right to remain in the State. Denmark has limited secondary and tertiary protection considerably, as has Sweden, which extends tertiary protection to children or families with children only. Leave to Remain is granted at the discretion of the Minister for Justice, in that respect it is a form of protection entirely within the State’s control - from this point on it has to be a case of Refugee Status or a deportation order that is effected in a thorough and timely manner.

Glenomra

The latest opinion poll will certainly 'put the cat among the kittens'. Sinn Fein have realised, belatedly, that they were losing votes among their core support and have reactedly, racing to towards a far more stricter asylum policy. Being accused of treason etc by radicals must have been some shock to their system. They have received a consequent bounce. Now, ff and fg will be off in hot pursuit.

dublin49

There should be no money handed to IPA applicants,they should be fed .Sheltered and access to medical care until a decision is made on their status

Gen.Zhukov

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122096745#Comment_122096745

It got better though - much, much better. Michael Fitzmaurice gently pulled out the pin and lobbed the 2021 O'Gorman Tweets grenade into the studio - the first time it had been mentioned in almost 3.5 years, as Mary and Peader (not being au fait with internetty things) sitting beside the range in the kitchen, let out a simultaneous WTF!

29:40 mins in

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/saturday-with-colm-o-mongain/2024/0504/1447398-saturday-with-colm-o-mongain-saturday-4-may-2024/

dalyboy

Interesting video in regards to the for & against the immigration pact that has just passed by the dail. Surprised by some of the names that were not in favour of passing.

https://youtu.be/GAIYaGY2OZs?feature=shared

dalyboy

Here is the list of TDs in favour of passing the bill

IMG_4545.png

and here are the tds NOT in favour

IMG_4544.png

I’ll be keeping a screen-shot on my phone for when they come around looking for my vote in G.E.

Spanish Eyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122097437#Comment_122097437

Admit hand on heart that I switched off at the protest bit. Will listen back to the rest later. Good to hear the discussion moved on to the issue du jour.

willyvanilla

Further to the above, just read this and try to convince yourself things are above board. Its like the cinnamon challenge but 10 times harder.

"While Kippure Manor is owned by Tondo Limited, the property has been leased to another company called Seefin Events Unlimited, which lists the estate as its address.

The directors of Seefin Events Unlimited are Carol Dwyer, 56, and Sinéad Fennelly.

Seefin Events was paid €10,444,565 by the Department of Integration to provide accommodation for asylum seekers last year – in the top 30 accommodation providers in 2023.

Ms Fennelly, 38, is listed as the ­company’s sole shareholder. ­

However, she and Ms Dwyer are directors of several other ­companies that received more than a combined €33m from State accommodation contracts last year.

These firms include Edgewell Unlimited Company, which was incorporated in Ireland 14 months ago but is entirely owned by Bergvon LP Inc, which is registered in the Isle of Man, a tax haven.

It is listed as the sole shareholder for three of Ms Fennelly and Ms Dwyer’s companies that were paid €22,721,850 by the Integration department last year.

These include Gateway Integration Unlimited Company (€16,830,000), Airways Centre Unlimited Company (€5,474,000) and Arturo Ventures Unlimited Company (€417,850), which received its first payment last November. Gateway was among the top 15 accommodation ­providers in 2023.

Last month two of the companies – Kippure Manor-based Seefin Events and Edgewell – received a loan from a financial company controlled by former Anglo Irish Bank executive Tiarnan O’Mahoney, who successfully overturned his conviction for ­conspiring to destroy or falsify bank records.

In February, it was revealed how almost half the companies earning the most from lucrative State contracts to provide accommodation for refugees and asylum seekers are fully or majority-owned by entities based abroad."

Like come on!

And that's just one article of investigation. There are more, all with a similar quagmire of who?! Where?! What's that now?!

Any sane minded individual would have to ask the question, are these mafia-like cobweb businesses receiving hundreds of millions, billions perhaps, simply accidental beneficiaries of such a hilariously out of control migration situation?

Or, considering the genuinely vast sums of money involved, are they instigators and creators?

And who exactly is issuing these cheques of tax payer money, whos on the giving side of it? And why, given the information freely available that would make Don Corleone blush?

Time will tell!

Varik

If you look at the few years that the migration pact was getting negotiated it showed the growing difference as the countries shifted their own views election by election through the council but the parliament remained more unchanged bar a slight shift as the mood shifted at home.

When it passed in the end there was only a few countries Ireland of course included that objected to the more stringent parts of it. Some in the EU parliament probably hoped that passing and not fighting the council on it now would be better than allowing it to be passed in a very different form under a very different parliament after the election.

With Hungary taking the council presidency, and a new parliament.

I wouldn't be surprised with the amount of continued objection even now in the council that it doesn't go far enough that after the parliamentary elections the separate parts of the pact will become more strict on immigration.

My main concern isn't on the effectiveness of the pact ( I don't think it goes far enough) or the opt out payment on housing them, it's that Ireland will be paying all this money and still getting everyone who'd have shown up anyway but not using any of the tool the pact provides.

Like buying and paying for a monitored alarm, and then not turning it on and leaving the door unlocked.

pauly58

There was a good article in The Times this morning about the immigrant situation here, they pointed out that they are coming here via the UK, via France & probably via Italy, it's a fact that the EEC haven't got a grasp on things.

This new bill will absolutely stitch us up, based on capita & GDP figures, they're going to send stacks our way, the clip of the Barrister above clearly points that out.

This is a time where the Swiss system seems very attractive, what is it, 100k signatures on a petition & a referendum must be held.

DaithiMa

No shanty towns/tent cities wanted on the southside of the city centre because "wraparound services and support can't be provided in locations like this".

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2024/0504/1447397-residents-tents/

Are these wraparound services and supports available in the many small towns hosting IPAs around Ireland?

ShamNNspace

@willyvanilla ,very good post, what I like to see..... follow the money, puts in black and white the absolute fortunes being made in this industry…unfortunately the majority of our "journalists" prefer to browbeat us with soft articles fed to them by ngo's and at times complete disinformation and half-truth instead of doing some real journalism, get their hands dirty and do some rooting... Like during the financial crisis they are being shown up for the cowardly toe-the-line cads they are, an absolute disappointment for a supposedly educated nation of talkers and thinkers

willyvanilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122097494#Comment_122097494

"Ireland", cough cough, has a funny way of paying out hundreds of millions if not billions of euro to cobweb "businesses" based out of not-notorious places like the Isle of Man, the Bahamas, and other unreproachable places, with structures so simplistic it would challenge supercomputers to ascertain who's who to get housing to migrants they "can't" stop.

Its all starting to come out now, and just like a stinky fart, you'd be wondering about the people who just immediately left the room before it was smelled.

Meanwhile everyone else is pondering over the legalities and implications in a positively innocent manner, there are some obviously well connected groups making out like bandits.

And meanwhile meanwhile, many must be wondering at the lightning quick action of the government to house migrants any which way they can, while the Irish people and the existing housing crisis is treated like it doesn't exist.

Its a proper conundrum!

I wonder, if the wanton gifts of taxpayer money are allowed flow freely, will any legislation or law or vote or agreement or anything have any effect on the migration fiasco? I really really really really wonder. It's hard to be sure!

ziggyman17

Where is that weasel O'Gorman ? He is nowhere to be seen now that the **** is hitting the fan, he is the face and brains behind this failed immigration situation that the country finds itself in, yet he is in hiding, if he had anything about himself he would be out facing the public, but instead he hides……….