Retail in Waterford City

GandhiwasfromBallyfermot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120149504#Comment_120149504

I would imagine they will capture a larger market with a new store in an area only served by one supermarket without crossing the bridge, instead of consolidating in the city centre. Same reason I imagine Tesco have multiple locations across the city instead of consolidating in one superstore. Plus they wouldn't need to pay any rent as they've been forced into ownership of the centre already.

BBM77

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150080#Comment_120150080

Yeah, probably do with another supermarket over there alright. Can't see much more going in there really.

JohnC.

Dunnes would also be likely to start doing online shopping from Ferrybank too. It couldn't realistically happen from City Square.

GandhiwasfromBallyfermot

Relevant to this thread.

Waterford News & Star — Editorial: Argos latest to capitulate in battle for city centre retail - Waterford News & Star (waterford-news.ie)

Valhalla90

One post on the comments section saying announcement soon from City Square so hopefully something decent!

walterking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139559#Comment_120139559

Those stores opened in a different era and I suspect that some or all are at risk of closing.

In the M&S are closing some smaller format store and all growth is on large format stores. I think the smallest new store is 60,000 sq ft and the largest is 94,000 sq ft.

All future stores will either be food only or a full line store encompassing food, clothing and homewares. Their recent market statement made no mention of Ireland except confirming that the refit of Liffey valley was complete

Valhalla90

In other news I see the signs on the Clark’s store have “Let by” on them now! So something is going in there.

spankmemunkey

Why is everyone so mad to keep all shops in the city centre or against any major retail parks announcing new developments or new arrivals outside the city centre.

I have no interest what so ever to go into the city on my days off, its busy its crowded there is very little on offer for me in the city to buy and the thoughts of having to go into town for some purchases that I have to make just bring dread, The traffic and parking is a nightmare.

I cant wait to see Butlerstown retail park open up a few more stores and another fast food place, nobody in their right mind would travel from another county in to Waterford city to do shopping yet McDonagh Junction in Kilkenny is the right job.

I think its very selfish of people to think we should have it our way and in the city only, city square is a dump, and the rates the the people have to pay to Waterford City Council for the privillage is mental, people need to get a grip here.

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120161434#Comment_120161434

Whatever about being entitled to your opinion or not, it is really unhelpful to say "city square is a dump" , which it patently is not, unless the object is to stir a response with a grossly negative post. It would be better to say that it does not have the shops you want or that some units are empty, but your post should reflect on the fact that a lot of people work there. Perhaps you would prefer, with your completely car bound, suburban view, that it closed altogether? Perhaps I just dont understand the attitude your post reflects?

Your post is also quite confused in that you complain about wanting to keep all shops in the city centre when the council has just given permission for large units to host B&Q and Decathlon.

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120161434#Comment_120161434

I'm very confused by this,

You say there is nothing in town for you, but yet you do not want anything new attracted into town?

Your post gives the impression town is a dump or dead yet you say it is over crowded which would appear to be busy.

You say mcDonagh junction is the job but that is like building a shopping center in railway square, it's still in town.

You complain about traffic but yet are happy to drive 40-50 minutes to McDonagh junction, in no part of town would you be stuck in traffic for 40-50 mins.

One conflicting post, I reckon you are just looking for a reaction

Boooourns

Anyone for a Nandos? 🤫

BBM77

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120161434#Comment_120161434

Don’t know if you are trolling or not, frankly I don’t care. But unfortunately, this is a very common attitude in Waterford I am afraid. Have heard it many times. Does not even make any sense.

spankmemunkey

No I'm not trolling, and I reckon the replies I'm getting are from people with vested interests or people who work perhaps in City Square,

Can you tell me or list what attractive shops are in City Square?

I didn't say that the place is empty I said its a dump, ok I better choose my words more carefully so as not to offend.

I am simply looking at people losing their nut about and in general not just on here but people who are totally against any further development outside of the city center, This place needs more attractive shopping opportunities and locations outside of the city center.

Its not an attractive option to shop for alot of people, and someone mentioned my car, i can just imagine a young family now 2 small kids on the weekend saying lets go into town, shall we drive in, or take public transport, well we have the buggy and the kids are a handful oh and yeah we have no bus running past our estate.

As for McDonagh Junction it is a way better option than City Square, yes its a drive but a motorway drive straight forward and the shops are better.

My jibe about traffic in Waterford is traffic management in general.

niallo76

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120163817#Comment_120163817

McDonagh Junction may be a better looking building, but as for its retail it doesn't really offer that much more than we have down here-the H&M and TK Maxx are disappointing and the food court seems on a par with what City Square have to offer---shop for shop it doesn't justify a trip up for items that couldn't be bought in Waterford, unless you wanted a day out.Thats just my two cents-i think the Decathlon and B&Q will be a great addition once again to the Butlerstown Retail Park,I also thought that Argos would have worked much better out there,but alas they had other plans-I wish that a cinema would also be there in the future. The big missing link out at Butlerstown is the lack of a Hotel with a leisure facility so close to the Greenway-I bring my lads down to Apex in New Ross and its a great facility,i wisyh there was something similar on the horizon here in the future!with the SETU sports arena without a swimming pool it is the one thing that's sorely needed out there-I realise the Waterford Crystal Swimming Pool is close-but that could do with a bit of modernisation--but again,thats just my two cents..

BBM77

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120163817#Comment_120163817

Don’t see how you think you are getting much more in McDonagh Junction, will have to agree to disagree on that one. Been to McDonagh Junction, didn’t think much of it.

But yeah, traffic management needs to be worked on in the city. A lot more of the streets need to be one way for example and there is still way too much through traffic. It would also make cycling safer.

The reason for not wanting developments outside the city centre is simple. It leads to way more problems. And the hollowing out of city centres. This has been shown worldwide. What is the point of doing that.

spankmemunkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120164213#Comment_120164213

I think comparing Waterford City to Cities around the world is like comparing apples and oranges.

Firstly, so what if the city empties? whats the worst that can happen?

life changes, everything changes and nothing lasts forever, i think Waterford City Centre is too small to expect people to pile into town of a saturday morning, Traffic is awful coming along the Cork Road, whether you take public transport or not and there are very large estates popping up on the outskirts of the city without propper bus services so its handier and easier to jump in the car and head to a retail park.

Mcdonnagh Junction and retail parks are easier to get in and out of imo

Cabaal

I'm finding it very amusing to see somebody saying how great McDonagh Junction is, as somebody in Kilkenny I don't think I've ever heard somebody comment in a positive manner about it. Def nothing great about it.

As for wanting more retail parks, this is a bad idea unless you want to copy the USA. We want more walkable cities where people don't need to "jump in a car" just to do some shopping.

For an awful lot of people in Kilkenny they'd consider McDonagh Junction out of the way because its down by the train station, so instead they'll stay up around High Street, Keirans Street area for shopping. You basically need a car to go to anything over in the retail park where Woodies is, which again is a bloody pain.

Building more retail parks will result in a town or city dying a death, its basically the Wallmart effect that has happened time and time again in the USA.

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120163817#Comment_120163817

I certainly have no vested interest axe to grind nor, I suspect do the other posters who disagree with you. We could just as easily accuse you of being one of the usual Kilkenny brigade trollers, with exceptions, who take a delight in downing Waterford. I understand that Waterford city has over twice the retail floor space of any other urban area in the south east. Its the spread that's the problem. We all know that the retail in the city centre has had acknowledged difficulties for a long time. If you are one of those unhappy with it then join the gang. The planning history tells its own story. I still prefer to walk in around town as the whole centre is very safe for people and especially kids. The idea of driving 30 miles and back to go to a shopping centre for what I glean from your comments to be a regular thing, is risible. A very odd visit maybe? Debenhams was a loss in Waterford but was, as most chain stores (Argos!) are, part of a national closure. There are rumours of better things to come in City Square. I hope they come to pass.

It is also hard to understand the attitude in your second post "Firstly, so what if the city empties? whats the worst that can happen?" either unless again it is an attempt to seek reaction.

And by the way, cities big and small have compared themselves since time began.

spankmemunkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120164847#Comment_120164847

So what you want us all to walk in from the outskirts of the city into City Square? it might be convenient for you to do but I'm sure there's alot of people who wouldn't want to walk that distance, never mind walk with small kids and maybe a buggy and drag them in and out and bring shopping to boot.

Still not hearing good enough argument really.

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120163817#Comment_120163817

Out of interest if city square obtained H&M and TK max, then Waterford City centre would have the very same shops as McDonagh Junction?

Would this mean Waterford is then more or an equal attraction as McDonagh Junction?

Or would you care to say what it is still lacking?

By the way, I have zero vested interest in city square or the city centre but I have seen the damage in other cities around the globe that outer shopping centres have caused

spankmemunkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120165304#Comment_120165304

Its nothing to do with downing anybody or anything, if you think everything is great and don't challenge things they wont get better, its more about what's better for everyone, and less about defending something because of loyalty to your county.

There's a few other posts saying I know loads of people who love it or i know loads of people who hate Mcdonagh Junction, I was only using that as an example BTW, cos I can say I know loads of people who hate it, doesn't mean jack shoot.

My general argument is, that its not convenient for everybody to load up the car kids on board buggy drive into town and into city square when IMO there aren't great shops on offer there, for some people they prefer to go shopping in places where the shops are on the outskirts with easier access.

Traffic management and bus services are an issue as are the City Council rates for businesses

And by the way, give me the name of a few good shops in City Square??

BBM77

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120164716#Comment_120164716

You started to get a bit of credibility then you spoiled it.

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120165589#Comment_120165589

You know well that City Square was bought before Christmas from it's US owners and they inidcated in the local papers that they had retail expansion plans in view.

City Square is not and never was designed or developed to keep people captive, as Dundrum or Mahon Point were. It was meant to replicate the original street network and it normally functons like that.The council have tried to develop around it (rightly or wrongly) in that context so that people with children and buggies (you!) could move around to other shops and other streets.

spankmemunkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166367#Comment_120166367

" I know well" ?

Still nobody has listed off 2 or 3 decent shops in there????

azimuth17

River Island? Mulligan's Chemists? JD Sports? Carraig Donn? Peter Mark? And Debenhams was a nice shop before it closed and hopefully it will be replaced. By the way this is not a competition to see who can "win". You say you are just raising issues. Did you not know that City Square had been sold? You seem familiar enough with the city so I would expect that you did. If not, then you should consider your posts illinformed.

By the way, is it my use of words and syntax you are questioning?

Valhalla90

H&M is the only big draw to McDonagh Junction and even at that it’s not a large H&M store. Compared to larger stores in Dublin it has a poor offering.

friendlyfun

The food section upstairs in city square seems to have worked pretty well, with the Starbucks, O'Briens, Pantry, Abrakebabra. a good space if you wanted something eat and in town.

decies

Was in mcdonagh junction last week to be honest I thought the size of the car park was the most impressive feature . Majority of it very poor offering , one of the premises had clothes from a liquidised sale , and nobody was buying much . I never heard of this Frasers that’s supposed to be going into city square . The main problem with Waterford is they don’t support their own , whether it’s trips to Kilkenny , Clonmel , cork , newbridge Dublin etc Waterford shoppers first on the queue . We have lost tons of great retail shops in Waterford the last 10/20 years a lot might be said for people retiring but to be honest the vast majority were the people didn’t support them and without sounding harsh even with the addition of shops people have mentioned nothing will probably change . Support your own or be left with cafes and charity shops and pennies .

Dexpat

Interesting comments here. The reality is retail everywhere is in transition. The days when you had no choice but to go into town for something you needed are gone. Naturally there will be less retail overall in city centres' and what is there will be a different mix.

I know Waterford has been hit hard with closures of international chains and doesn't have an offering that people are happy with. I don't buy the arguement that restricting car access and the council is largely to blame. I'm there about five times a year and have never had a problem getting in or out, usually on a Saturday afternoon. Sometimes I park in City Square other times in Bolton St. I also have three kids under 10.

While the retail offering is lacking at the moment. I'm confident that that will change. The city centre has been transformed over the last 20 years or so and is a pleasure to stroll around. Kilkenny was way ahead in attractiveness previously, and having been there recently I don't think that's the case now. I don't think McDonagh Junction has done it any favours. It improved the retail offering but High St seems to suffer as a result as McDonagh junction is too far away.

I think Waterford City centre now compares very favourably with any town/city centre in the country in terms of attractiveness. Maybe some people living there can't see it but I travel a lot and it is evident when I go back.

In future people will go into town not just to shop, but much more to meet people, attend events etc. The city centre population is also increasing rapidly as well. Good luck to people who want to go to a retail park, buy something and go home but it's not for me (most of the time). A lot American and US cities have been hollowed out as a result of these. The prosperous cities have vibrant centres which people want to visit and spend time in. The council in Waterford haven't always got it right, Michael St being the main example, but limiting what can go into retail parks is good for the city centre.

I'd be confident that with the space available in City Sq etc, that the retail offering will improve substantially, which will complement the huge improvements in the urban environment. The north quays and bridge and the new train station are starting in March so hopefully they will be a catalyst for further investment. Despite some important issues, things are looking much better than they were when 'the glass' closed nearly 15 years ago. If we have a vibrant centre, and city that people want to visit, live and work in, then the case for additional resources for the hospital/'university' etc become more pressing. Undoubtedly there are vested interests elsewhere against that, but that's a whole other discussion.

azimuth17

In fairness to posters here and to teh difference of opinion, the tension seems to be between those who want to drive to an enclosed mall type (US) centre and stay there and shop there and those who believe that we should have a European type centre with pedestrian spaces and street based retail. I favour the latter.