Slow play at your home club

coillcam

I'll throw in my 2c having played a 15-hole comp over the weekend in 3h50m as a 4ball. There was a 3ball behind which caught us a few times on the front 9 they slowed up after. I mentioned letting them through after the 3rd but they didn't seem to be bothered to keep up the pace.

Tbh we did have to look for a couple of plugged balls but nothing outlandish. Most of the hold-up was around the green by a couple of lads in the group. It was generally due to leaving the trolley/wedge/putter on the wrong side of the green and marking card before moving on. Tbf the lads are relatively new to the game but it still was about 10-15 mins extra. I found myself and 4th guy teeing up first on each hole and sometimes waiting for the others to catch up or move out of eye-line. The two guys in question were actually quick in addressing their shot/putt and hitting it. There was also rope covering a wide area near each green so it did contribute somewhat.

If it was a medal/major then that pace would have been normal. For a regular stableford it's a little slow but not particularly notable.

slingerz

Noone thinks they are the slow group.

course setup is the biggest contributor to slow play. Easy to find a ball means no wasting time looking for them.

blue note

I'm often in a slow group. I don't believe I'm too bad, although I do spend too long standing over the ball. I'm reminding myself of a couple of things before swinging. Occasionally I try to just hit it and hope that I'll do the things I normally remind myself of automatically, but I never to and I end up slicing the arse off the ball every second shot which certainly doesn't speed me up.

But two of the lads I play with regularly are high handicappers - 26 and 31. There's no getting away from the fact that they're going to hit a lot of shots. And plenty of these could be lost balls. And balls boned through a green into a bunker or whatever. Course set up / design has definitely slowed these guys down too - longer rough, more bunkers, elevated greens, longer courses. But when lads are averaging double bogies, trying to salvage triple bogies there's just no way of them being as fast as guys who are usually at least near the greens in regulation.

spacecoyote

New handicap system doesn't help either with the crazy upper limits.

Was playing with 2 ladies a couple of weeks ago. The card I was marking had 22 shots for 9 holes. And my course sets a neutral slope for the Winter.

Thought it was funny when she remarked that she had "extra" shots on only 4 holes, meaning she only had 3 strokes on 4 of the holes, instead of the 2 on all the rest.

When a quad on a hole can still get you a point its going to slow things down every day out on the course

jamfer

I'm relatively new to golf, having taken it up later in life. I was quite nervous in the beginning. All this "slow play" and focus on "slow play" had me thinking I needed to sprint, to fling the club at the ball and then run to find it and declare them lost after 10 seconds. I lost a lot of balls, I made no progress other than my initial 28 handicap (issued after 3 cards handed in) and ended up at 35. Tee drives were a nightmare. Especially the 1st. The whole club membership standing and laughing. I bounced off a tree onto the practice putting green where lads screamed four and dove around for cover on a competition day one time. I bought a carry bag, I thought I'd play faster if I walked direct from ball location to ball location and not have to be leaving a trolly 50 feet away and then be walking back to it. I got so flustered. Were I not an old man with strong resilience I'd have given the game up. It is not welcoming on the face ft it. Hurry up, keep moving. Stop waiting. Am I really welcome, do I enjoy this?

But then, as you spend more time playing, you see there are other lads who are just the same as you. They may be low handicappers, but they too can hoik it into the trees, They too 3 putt. I'm a high handicapper and am a member in a parkland course and distance member on a links course. I play it as i find it. I actually get lower scores on the links course.

Sometimes I am around in 3 hours, sometimes 4.5. I feel no drive to be whooshing lads along, or feeling impatient with other lads. Only issue I ever had was a lad who got antsy as I wasn't standing between 63.5degrees and 180.768degrees when he was putting - I just took to standing beside his mate who he didn't seem to have an issue with. I play with another lad who would die if you offered to help him find a ball if he's not hit the fairway. He practically declares it lost before its travelled 10 foot from his club. The chap has played all his life and is utterly terrified of being accused of slow play. WTF?

I paly as I play. I do ready golf. I choose my club before I get to my ball, I do 1 practice swing (added because I learned if I don't I duff it). I mark my card on next tee.

I just don't get the impatience. Are people so terrified of their own thoughts and standing still for a minute or two with nothing but their own thoughts is beyond them?

I do be happy to be alive, able to be out with like minded people experiencing the best or worst a course and the weather can put up to us. The shared experience, looking forward to the post round visit to the clubhouse. I always go to the clubhouse for food after a round. I make sure to buy items from the pro shops too. They'll not be there if we as members don't.

FazyLucker

As a time poor 30-something, slow play is my number 1 barrier to joining a golf club again. I would want to be the first on the time sheet every weekend and know that isn't feasible in most clubs. I also couldn't stomach a 4-ball every weekend either.

I have played lots of golf with all sorts of people and for me, the biggest issues with slow play are the incessant talkers (go find you ball and get ready), the dawdler (go get the flag if you have putted first, if you have putted second go get your bag and maybe head on to the next tee if it suits) and the high-handicapper who takes out a Rangefinder, takes 15 practice swings or 5 minutes reading a putt after hitting his provisional after 3 minutes looking for the first ball.

Everybody can have a bad hole or two but I think once you lose a full hole to the group in front, its time to pull over and let the next group on or make it up over a hole or two.

I get that clubs can't all afford to pay for course rangers but could they not offer the 5-day members a discount if they do course ranger for 1/2 a day every month or something? I know its getting in to logistics but even still, some clubs offer discounts for people to repair the fairways.

I get the "everybody should calm down" mantra, but it does surprise me that clubs are so unwilling to deal with repeat offenders. If they aren't willing to take a bit of criticism then go somewhere else, no?

AyeGer

On the subject of marking cards, people would be better moving on to the next tee and mark the cards as they are taking turns to tee off. Clarify the correct scores on the way to the next tee.

Great post Jamfer, there is a danger that the club whingers obsessed with slow play put beginners and high handicappers under unreasonable pressure. If people are going a reasonable pace they shouldn't worry themselves about the guys who want to rush around the course.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120160030#Comment_120160030

Awareness on the golf course is something which is sadly lacking in a lot of clubs.

If you tee off on the first and because there is no one behind, dawdle along merrily you should be able to spot another group getting close and speed up.

The “Jaysus.. where did they spring from” shouldn’t happen.

Dont get me going about talkers….

bakerbhoy

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://golf.com/instruction/rules/legal-take-practice-swings-touch-sand-different-bunker/%3Famp%3D1&ved=2ahUKEwjJgOir2ef8AhWjQ0EAHQQaBNkQFnoECAoQBQ&usg=AOvVaw2fssNtcBlCN_0mmWj95-2O

Howdoes this sit with you.

FazyLucker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120163692#Comment_120163692

Yeah awareness is badly lacking.

Do clubs ever do any "pace of play" talks, etc about how to speed up a round? I get that every group can have a bad hole but they should be able to catch up to the group in front or that's where a course ranger comes in.

To me, much of that lack of awareness is what causes the slow play.

I don't mind a chat every now and then but incessant talking while not even starting to think about the next shot bugs the sht out of me. I use the gap between shots to think about yardage, hazards, etc because when I get to the ball, I can have the shot planned.

Another big one - a bad tee shot and a guy who is more interested in cursing and swearing and swinging his club around than trying to keep an eye on anything (e.g. a tree, a yardage marker, whatever) which might help him find it when they get up there.

A friend of mine told me of a 25 handicapper taking out his range finder to see how far he was to the pin.....seriously. Get a GPS watch and come back with the range finder when you are in single digits or low teens.

Brendan Bendar

Then there’s the guy who tees up his ball, then stands back to give his long winded view on the

Crokes-Glen football match or the Marcus Rashford interference incident………

Just hit the f*****g ball you gobshyte!!!!

tayto lover

Was behind 4 lads yesterday. Stableford competition. One lad played 9 shots before he was half-way to the green. Just lift your ball you fool as you can't score and move on.

billy3sheets

I've learned over the years to:

1. Leave my bag on the way to the next tee before putting out.
2. Grab my club and hit off immediately on arrival at the tee. This encourages partners to follow quickly.
3. Ask partners score each hole but only mark their card every 3rd hole.
4. Carry a provisional ball at all times.

Meeting golfers who I don't know or have hardly ever played with and having great chats and banter with is for me one of the most enjoyable aspects of playing golf. That said, you have to be aware and respectful of the pace of play. I find the few steps above help with speed and subtly convey the message to the rest of the group.

Dtoffee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120159888#Comment_120159888

This is golf as it should be, live and let live. Enjoy the game and respect those around you, I am playing nearly 50 years and have never timed a round. Like you, I decide on the club to play and then play the shot without undue fuss. I accept the fact that I am not a fast walker, but I never lose pace with those in front and see the game as an enjoyable challenge.

Anyone looking to run around a golf course should have the common sense to realise that the early spots are best suited to such behaviour. I know one guy in our club who insists on playing late on the time sheet and moans about slow play.... despite there being no gaps ahead or behind him, I think he just likes to moan tbh and that is where a lot of the issues arise. Someone having a bad day will always have an excuse and slow play is top of the list, but chances are they would have been equally bad in a fast group.

I wonder if all those looking for fast rounds were put together in one club, would they be happy or would there still be issues ? I suspect the latter.

BraveDonut

Most slow players don't realise that they are slow. They have developed bad habits over the years and unless someone actually points out what they are doing to make them slow, they will continue as they are.

My club is a busy club so it is always 4-balls.

My biggest grievance is when you are in a group with slow players and see that you are losing ground on the group in front. You say "Lads, we need to pick up the pace". Only to be completely ignored

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120195222#Comment_120195222

Exactly ..and you will probably find that one maybe two players are concious of what’s going on around them and two others..sometimes three have no idea, never had, never will.

Most frustrating and forks up your own golf game big time.

Fann Linn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120195240#Comment_120195240

Agree fully Brenner's. I find myself rushing then and end up duffing shots etc whilst the others just saunter along.

Found myself some new partners and now we just motor along and play 'ready golf' on tees etc and don't sit on protocol.

CalamariFritti

Slow play can be annoying, but ultimately it comes down to this. If you can't commit to play a ball game for 3 to 4 hours without losing your rag or constantly worrying about your busy life then maybe golf just isn't for you.

Play 9 holes first thing in the morning or before sunset or maybe take up tennis?

Hijpo

Going by some of the comments on slow play it seems if your not playing off scratch and don't stand over it to immediately hit it you shouldn't be out on the course.

I can imagine anyone wanting to start playing would find this extremely off putting.

Fann Linn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120201694#Comment_120201694

It's not really about losing the rag however. It's about losing sight of the four-ball in front who are tipping along just nicely whilst the groupings behind are looking to be called through.

CalamariFritti

Ye I get that and like I said at times it can be quite annoying but it happens on (in my club rare) occasion so what? IMO we can't be questioning the concept of the game itself or the course designs and/or everything cos sometimes your game takes 15 minutes longer.

People sit in traffic for donkeys and accept it as 'thats just the way it is', but if they have to wait a couple of minutes for some slow golfers the sky falls in on them,

And yes, I'm exaggerating a bit to make my point.

slingerz

Group behind us today lost 2 & 1/2 holes on us over the course of 14 holes. They just walk and play slowly. No other two ways about it. Some of them are older gentleman but one is in his 20s

CalamariFritti

We have a couple of groups like that in the club too. Some are just quite old and others just aren't very good golfers and simply take more shots.

I get annoyed too when I see people being slow cos they're ambling and faffing around, but what can you say about older golfers? We gonna be old too at some stage (hopefully) and wouldn't want to be chased off the course because of it.

^ In the example above, what's the guy in the 20s gonna do? Run ahead?

AyeGer

Older guy at our club used to love to tell stories of the old days at the club and other funny things that have happened down the years. He’d stop whoever he wa telling the story to and grab them by the arm to stop them walking on as he told the story. Most people learned to tell him to hit the shot and walk and talk. He was still very slow but was a bit of a character so people tolerated it.

He was fine when it was suggested to let the group behind through. There are people like that at clubs and always will be. Golfers just need to find a way to deal with them. Many are not out to compete and are mainly out for the social aspect.

Slow play is one thing but I’d prefer to be out with the slow guy that someone kicking their bag or throwing clubs in a rage because they aren’t playing well. In the 30 years I’ve been playing I’ve seen all sorts on the course. You see it all on golf courses, from cheating to bust ups, club throwing, guys storming off the course half way through because they are playing bad, slow play, golfers with zero etiquette, beginners insisting on finishing the hole even after hitting their 10th shot.

It’s definitely a game where people need to have more patience with each other.

Brendan Bendar

Nothing worse than a ‘club thrower’ for sure.

However, the goon who tries to ‘talk the hole off you’ is not far behind (especially when your game is not going well) .

Just get outa me grill you gormless kernt.

bakerbhoy

Played Monday with a quick group 4 ball.

We were behind an other 4 ball...

Two ladies two gents.

3 hrs 50.... Not bad

Lady came to us after round and apologised for pace .. Not needed but it happened.

One gent had 100% responsibility..

Observered on practice green taking 30 plus second pause on all putts... 2/3 foot putts.

Took this to the course...

Observered ladies walking on ahead etc. Made no difference to the lads pace.

We would have been on 3.20....3.30 pace

Hijpo

In a 4 ball on Monday. Open singles Stableford. 5823 meters.

Two playing off 27, one off 13 and one off 7.

It took us two hours to cover 9 holes, four ball behind us were flying, waiting on tee on the 6th, waiting on fairway on 7th, hit down on us on the 9th.

Three ball behind catching them. What do you do there? Didn't feel we were slow. If we wait and leave the 4 ball through the three ball also catches us, if we leave them through we dont finish the round.

Total time for us was 4 hours 20 and losing light fast.

CalamariFritti

We're playing 3 balls on Sundays in our club and generally speaking if you're in any way slow you wouldn't want to be sensitive. There'll be grumblings and complaints after and some people would simply tell you in no uncertain terms there and then on the course. I've witnessed words being had myself. And this is known. We have a couple of culprit groups like I imagine every club does and they know too. Sometimes they fall a bit behind but you know just looking at them - they know - and they make an effort.

Consequently pace is maybe not brisk but defy no faffing around. And when we have a nice round, no waiting for anyone, no one waiting for us, all just running smoothly, people saying after the round that was a nice good pace, its about 3:20. Thats for a three-ball stableford.

Unless you're playing on a very short course I don't think 3:20 for a four ball is achievable or even desirable.

tayto lover

Its not just elderly people who are slow. I was drawn with 2 young lads (20's) last week and I had to ask them to not take so many practice swings (7 for one) and to walk quicker between shots as we were losing ground on the people ahead. Might as well be talking to the wall. They seemed to slow even more. I apologised to the people behind and made a mental note to avoid these two and try to play ahead of them in future.

swededmonkey

I had to call two young lads out recently. They were playing in a two ball with our group of 4 soon catching up and waiting on shots constantly. Play was being held up in the groups behind us. Ability or handicaps weren't the issue. After every shot, they would pull out their phones, aimlessly scroll and casually dander to the next shot and repeat. When challenged about it, they just gave a thousand yard stare and were oblivious they were doing anything wrong. A few shots landing in close by got them moving and a complaint made against me that got rescinded when I outlined the issue.

blue note

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120213097#Comment_120213097

This is the problem I don't see an answer to. 4 hours 20 is a bit on the long side, but not crazy. And you're dead right, once you call that fourball through and wait for them to go out of range that threeball will immediately be where the fourball were. And you've the exact same problem as before. The fourball you called through will be better off, but the threeball will have the additional wait of your stoppage. And on a busy day every group behind them in a queue will have that additional wait too.

And no-one ever seems to accept that higher handicap golfers will typically need longer to play a round. With all other things being equal, there will be the additional time of taking extra shots, looking for balls, walking left and right to your ball, over greens, etc. If a fourball of mid 20 handicappers had the same time management as a group of 10 handicappers, I wouldn't be surprised if it would take them an extra half an hour to play a round. In fact, I'd be surprised if it only took them an additional half hour.

What do people propose we do with these golfers? Say a group of friends decide they'd like to take up the game - do we say that's great but you're not allowed to play together. Or no looking for balls or you only get half the time to line up a putt more seasoned golfers get because you need to catch up?

To me there are several aspects to speeding up play. But focusing on player behaviour will speed up everyone. So it won't do all that much to help people being held up. To shorten the rounds, I think we need to look at forward tees, getting rid of hazards, shorter rough, slower greens, fewer raised greens. These are obviously broad suggestions and wouldn't always work, but by and large if we want to get back to the length of rounds we had 20 or 30 years ago, we probably need to go back to those courses. And possibly reduce how far people can hit the ball. I get into trouble far more often because I ran into it as opposed to didn't clear it.

Hijpo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215322#Comment_120215322

I saw somewhere that a club had moved away from men's and womens tee boxes and are now using a handicap system.

>16 you tee off on the reds, 16-9 off the whites etc etc

blue note

I'd love to adjust people's perception of what's reasonable more than anything. People go around in 4 hours and 15 minutes on a Sunday morning in a fourball and they're giving out about how long it took. I know it's frustrating to be behind a slow group, especially if you can see them do stupid things. But moaning should be reserved for rounds of over 4 and a half hours in my opinion. I just don't want to listen to it unless it was actually really bad, not just should have been faster.

slingerz

Some people just love complaining. I don’t understand those that want to be around the course as fast as possible. Golf is a commitment and it takes time to play 18 holes as a 3 or 4 ball.

ShivasIrons

One sure thing about slow players, they don't think they are slow and will ague why they are not!

Viscount Aggro

A guy in my club, would spend most of the time in the bushes looking for other peoples balls.

Nobody would play with him.

George Mitchell was his name, now RIP.

DuckSlice

I gave up getting bothered about slow play. If I need to get around in a certain time then I book first thing in the morning. Home course is a nine hole so its a lottery as to how long the back nine can take. its every second Tee (1st then 10th and so on if there is a queue on the Tee.

The ladies group however have the luxury of being allowed to book their back nine tee time aswell as their starting tee time. But they are very social and like to finish together-ish and have their Tea and sandwiches after the round.

In general if people walked quicker to their ball they could take as long as they want within reason over the ball.

BraveDonut

IMO 4 hours 20 minutes should be considered acceptable for singles strokes off the medal tees.

4 hours for singles stableford off the 'normal' tees.

<4 hours for fourballs, rumbles, scrambles

3 minutes searching for a ball must be enforced within the group - it is a rule, not a guideline

Miley Byrne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217183#Comment_120217183

You sure his name wasn't George Michael?

Viscount Aggro

No, I am sure he was not called George Michael.

This other guy used to wear wellington boots.

You could say theres some similarity ... they both get pulled off in bogs.

Miley Byrne

It was the searching for balls in bushes that made me think you had the name wrong. Not to worry

Salvadoor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120220466#Comment_120220466

As the kids would say, you've just won the internet today

mjsc1970

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215679#Comment_120215679

If you were to tell me the round will take up to 4hrs 30, every time........and that was considered the norm, I just don't think I'd play there that much at all if that pace was considered acceptable.

Maybe on a course the likes of K club or Killeen Castle or something, where there can be long walks between greens and next tee. Yeah maybe ok then. Still though, I'd find that time a bit tiring.

I just think 4 30 is an awful long time to be spending out on a course. Maybe I'm just conditioned to shorter courses.Yeah I probably am actually.

I'm thinking back in the days playing junior / senior scratch cups, 36 holes. Regardless of course ye wouldn't wanna be greater than 4 hours coz ye gotta do it again in the afternoon.

Hijpo

....scratch cups is your time base??

I don't think that's a useful measure for your average player.

mjsc1970

Don't think scratch cups hold the monopoly on acceptable, or bearable, pace to be honest. OK it's been years for me but I played lots fado fado and pace varied. Some were ok, a few were excruciatingly slow.

I don't know how you would describe the average golfer. Age 50 15hcp is that average? I've no clue.

Would I expect a 50 year old off 15hcp to comfortably play an average golf course 18 holes singles in 3 ball format by 4 hours? Yes.

Hijpo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120222448#Comment_120222448

But your are only taking into account one player there, you are never going to get a group where all individuals play the same. What about four (the usual group size) 50 year olds playing off 15, on a 5800 metre course. I don't think they get around in four hours comfortably.

mjsc1970

I take your point. For a 4 Ball.

Hijpo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120224237#Comment_120224237

I too understand where you are coming from.

If its only 3 players it's 87 less shots (if they all manage to play to 15 on the day). It's one less person to wait for to get to their ball and 20 seconds less that the group is waiting before moving to the next shot, on every shot.

ShivasIrons

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120223429#Comment_120223429

You're right they don't comfortably get around in 4 hours, they get around comfortably in less.

Hijpo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120225920#Comment_120225920

You're so clever, wow.