Do smart meters cost you more

ELM327

They basically wanted to make a splash I'd say, and the biggest group of users in the domestic space are on MCC01 - standard 24hr rates - and the smart meters on RM106 can cover that MCC as well as MCC12 and MCC16.

They must have forgotten or not known simply that MCC02 had two main usage registers and a smart meter with only one simply wouldnt cut it. So they have to get more in under a different configuration. These will be known as RM107. Both RM106 (all smart meters currently installed) and RM107 (the smart meter than can do MCC02) are not interchangeable - the former cannot do MCC02 and the latter cannot do MCC01, but, in time, these MCCs will be phased out in all likelihood and replaced with MCC12, MCC16 and others

smuggler.ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120118930#Comment_120118930

Is "Smart" is realy smart enough 😊

Does that in turn mean either ALL other tariffs "have to go" or there still will be inequality among what consumer can opt for - 24H or smart vs D/N or smart. Would it require meter replacement or this is firmware/software stuff (providing they would alow switching) that can be done remote

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120119954#Comment_120119954

I dont think they would need to do anything. There's no crossover between MCC01 and MCC02 on the same smart meter. If you had MCC01 for instance, 24hr rate, and activate a smart meter to MCC12/16, you can never go to a non smart tariff again. Means MCC02 (and MCC01) isnt available anymore to you.

Same in reverse if you are on MCC02. You can (soon) get an RM107 smart meter that will do MCC02, until you activate and go to MCC12/16. Once you go smart, again, you can't go back. So you cant for instance go MCC01-MCC12-MCC02 for instance, the meters wont do it and the ESBn dont allow it anyway. If you go MCC01 - MCC02, its a meter exchange same as now.

smuggler.ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120120027#Comment_120120027

I feel like this going way away from the topic, but having standard digital meter can have either 24h or D/N (MCC01 or MCC02) , isn't it? I mean, consummer preference, not limited by meter can/cannot

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120120121#Comment_120120121

It's not going away from the topic, IMO, as it's important to understand the different metering options to clearly assess if smart meters cost you more.

Some of the newest non smart meters can be programmed to do MCC01 or MCC02, yes. But not all. And on the ESBn side, there's always a meter exchange job created and an engineer sent to site. If they see on site that the meter can do D/N for instance, its a software change. But if it's an older one, then they need to physically swap the meters.

In the future, we will have two meter codes for smart meters, currently all domestic smart meters are RM106 type but the newer ones for people currently on MCC02 will be RM107. Ultimately we will all have them installed, I suspect.

kirk.

Looking at ESB site the rates seem reasonably comparable to day/nite if you throw in the 2-4 EV boost assuming you can get it

Haven't studied it closely so could be mistaken

smuggler.ie

Wasnt aware of "old non smart", know analog and digital, perhaps there are digital that can only do 24H or only D/N

Anyway, i fail get my head around how "smart" cannot do all/any out of three tariffs, this like primary school math on the scrap paper, what to talk about sophisticated programs

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120120286#Comment_120120286

When the digital came in for new builds round 2010 ? they were capable of dual-tarriff anyway

Presume they were just configured for either option

smuggler.ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120120347#Comment_120120347

i get that, firmware/software config to enter on meter t0=00-24, t1=08:00-23:00, t2=.... SAVE

"Smart" is just to dumb to do that, isn't it, despite available remote access, no need to get engineer on site, etc. Perhaps i dont know someething about it 😊

kirk.

Smart refers to the meter obviously and increased functionality

Then there's the issue of pricing and packaging and changing customer behaviour

smuggler.ie

Would you agree, that at the moment, with current MCC01 MCC02 partial/incompatability its decreased in that prospective. Flexibility reduced and consummer options limited.

Unless the plan was/is to get rid of 24H/D/N and enroll ALL of us on smart tariff only.

i speculating here, but with "sweet talk" now, they promiss you option to stay on your current tariff for now. As was advised by ELM327, there is no return if you activate "smart" and apparently you can no longer switch between 24H / D/N if you got new meter but didnt activate - limited by meter itself

Was this advertised anywhere / user informed? I didnt come acros, nor i saw on leaflet they sent that user have option to decline.

When consumer is not provided with clarity it stinks...

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120120574#Comment_120120574

You can switch but you need to get your supplier to request a meter change to go from MCC01 to MCC02. There is no change to this process, it's always been that way - requested by your supply company. The only complication is the current smart meters (RM106) cannot do MCC02 and future MCC02 compatible smart meters (RM107) cannot do MCC01.

Down the line, MCC01 and MCC02 will be legacy tariff codes probably not available to move to and grandfathered in for existing customers on those MCCs only, once theres a critical mass of smart meters on smart MCCs MCC12 or MCC16. All of RM106 and RM107 can do all smart tariffs, the difference is in the non smart part.

smuggler.ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120124425#Comment_120124425

things getting confusing...

You can switch but you need to get your supplier to request a meter change to go from MCC01 to MCC02.

My digital meter has t0, t1, t2 and counter t0=combined t1+t2 - would i still need meter replacement with this capability, should i choose to swich from MCC02-to-MCC01( or other way around) or just logical re-assigment at the ESB/suppl side?

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120124582#Comment_120124582

Those can do 24hr and dual tariff

How they're configured I don't know or if they come factory set ?

kirk.

What were ESBN doing for all the customers changing from 24hr to day/nite up to now

They were hardly swopping out the existing digital meter which was already capable of both ?

smuggler.ie

No idea, this was from day one it was installed. To my believe, factory and providing all europe time bands for tariff's are the same, would make it simple explanation.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120124582#Comment_120124582

Site visit necessary. If new type of non smart meter (ie digital) that is capable of 24hr and DN, then no action. Otherwise replace the meter.

However, from a supply company end, all meter type changes must be accompanied by a meter exchange request on the networks extranet.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120124621#Comment_120124621

No, they swap out the meter if the existing one cannot do the new tariff. I had a smart meter at the house when I bought it, we changed to Day Night and they came and removed the smart meter and replaced with a day night

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120124987#Comment_120124987

You're misreading me

Was talking about the change from 24 to day/nite on the old digital meters

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120125157#Comment_120125157

I said the below, and I dont think I'm misreading. I'm also talking about change 24 to DN on the old digital meters.

Site visit necessary. If new type of non smart meter (ie digital) that is capable of 24hr and DN, then no action. Otherwise replace the meter.

kirk.

Ya no worries but I wasn't referring to smart only basic digital

Prior to smart metering

Anyway you answered my question

Tony EH

So far, I'm seeing absolutely no reason to switch to this thing.

PowerToWait

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243105#Comment_120243105

I have it, was installed by default in new build. Most frustrating thing of all is that 80% of the time the 'smart' functionality is unavailable. If you log in to see usage, projected usage etc, they cannot be displayed.

costin

ESB only fits RM107 as per today. Can I activate a RM107 as MCC02 if I was previously on a 24hr plan MCC01?

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120335645#Comment_120335645

From ESBn's paper, MCC02 configured RM107 are not switchable with MCC01 smart meters. I would guess no.

deezell

This is my smart meter readings from installation last April until this March. I've shown the cost of three different BGE plans. Standard is the best it seems. The dishwasher is the only thing that might be put on night rate timer, it's often switched on last thing, otherwise night usage is just the fridge, and tvs on standby etc.

Day/Night is €150 more than Standard, Smart about €27 more.

I'm currently not on any plan, my last bill was the old meter one, BGE haven't used the new readings since the meter went in, or engaged with me on what plan I'd like. Meantime my fixed direct debits and the government subs are all accumulating for a year now. Last bill on Standard was €0.28/unit, I probably owe about €1232 plus all the standing charges, so I'm covered by the credit. I don't see any reason to move from standard, but I'm worried they might give me some line that I have to choose some 'Smart' plan other than the standard one.

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120120027#Comment_120120027

My understanding if that once you activate smart metering and move to a smart tariff, you cannot revert to 24 meter type billing?

Only Electric Ireland offer something close to that. the other providers (energia, flogas, bord gas, airtricity etc) only have "smart" plans with daytime, peak and night-time rates.

Sorry, I'm new to researching all this, but would anyone have any experience of this? Not much help from speaking with the service providers.

DownByTheGarden

If you are with electric Ireland be carefulk if you are on a smart plan. Your times of use are not accurate and you should check them with electric ireland. They messed up the clock change and havent fixed the issue yet, so you could be using peak rate electricity when you think you arent.

Tony EH

We got a letter about this the other day. Think we're going to refuse the installation. Don't see the point in it TBH.

kazamo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120500389#Comment_120500389

It saves the hassle of estimated bills and that’s about it.

deezell

It looks like a trap tbh. I might contact EI and change over retrospectively, as I haven't had a bill in a year from BGE, my standing orders and govt. credits just keep accumulating on the online BGE account. Obviously a breakdown in communication of the readings from ESBN to BGE.