Role for Irish Defence Forces in Ukraine?

Larbre34

Politics and diplomacy aside, if you or your family can't reconcile with the fact that there is a very small but nonetheless recognised risk of getting wounded or killed on joining any Military, even the Irish DF, then don't join up.

ohnonotgmail

what mandate would these soldiers fight under? there is no UN mandate and there is no declared state of war between russia and ireland.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068810#Comment_120068810

This is the whole point. Its so far beyond a non-starter its daft.

When the War ends there'll probably be a bunch of UN mandated missions to de-militarise and EOD the regions where the fighting took place and in that Ireland can offer help, but in the meantime, any foreign military on Ukrainian soil are just an excuse for Russia to widen the conflict.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068948#Comment_120068948

I know it is the point. the whole thread is nonsense.

Grassy Knoll

Post the end of this conflict- and it will come at some point - there could be a border monitoring / peacekeeping type role mandated via the UN etc. anyways we are a bit away from that just now …

saabsaab

I don't understand how people are talking about declaraing war on Russia or other nonsense. Just helping Ukraine and support in non combat situations. If it happened it would be of a small nature and mainly symbolic.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068760#Comment_120068760

😂

get help.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069562#Comment_120069562

We are helping. We're sheltering 70,000+ of their women, kids and elderly folk and sending as much ballistic protective gear, medical supplies and ancillaries as we can manage.

I do not understand how you fail to see how little Ireland could assist Ukraine, in theatre, at this moment. The NATO powers are feeding them as much kit as they can handle, training and resource wise, without actually starting World War III.

The announcement yesterday of IFV and APC supply from Western Europe is an escalation of that help, in a carefully orchestrated strategy to stretch and squeeze Russian forces until they are pushed all the way back beyond their 2014 positions and eventually to their own borders. It is careful, methodical and gradual, so as not to widen the conflict and to just wear down Russia, of men and resources.

saabsaab

Putinn must be reading boards. The day after this thread went up he is looking for a ceasefire!

Townton

We would be of much more use getting on a 40 min flight to the UK and joining them and the dozens of other countries that are training Ukrainian recruits there. Thousands of them going through, we could assist and be of value there as well as actually learn from Ukrainian soldiers own experience.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120238491#Comment_120238491

Apart from the fact that training the combatants of a foreign nation who are active in a third party conflict, is pretty much as blatant a violation of neutrality as there is.

Rations, helmets, body armour, field medicine kits. Thats all we do. Thats all we can do.

Maybe when the war is over and Ukrainian sovereignty has been fully restored, the Irish DF could help deal with mines and unexploded munitions, Lord knows there'll be enough work there for whoever wants it. But thats a post-War conversation.

65535

We are not 'neutral' - we don't have the armed power to be a neutral country like for example Sweden or Switzerland.

We are 'non-aligned' - we allowed the USSR to land here in Shannon during the cold war - we are now allowing the US Air Force the same.

If we were really commited to assisting Ukraine we would have at least one hospital ship with trained medical personell on board and set sail for the black sea.

All we can do is assist for the time being until the oligarch Putin is 'Put in' his rightful place.

saabsaab

The Government on Tuesday approved the participation of up to 30 Defence Forces’ personnel in the newly established European Union Military Assistance Mission in support of Ukraine (EUMAM Ukraine).

It is understood that these troops will train Ukrainian troops in demining.

The primary role of the Defence Forces will be to provide training to members of the Ukrainian Armed Forces (UAF) in one or more EU Member States in which the training will take place. 

These trainers will be supplemented by a small number of staff positions based in the Military Planning and Conduct Capability (MPCC) staff based in Brussels, Belgium and in the multi-national Special Training Command (STC) in Strausberg, Germany.

Speaking after the Government confirmed its approval for the Defence Forces’ participation, the Tánaiste and Minister for Defence Micheál Martin said that the EUMAM Ukraine programme will "provide vital training support to the Ukrainian Armed Forces, as well as the coordination of EU Member States’ activities delivering the training".

"Given Ireland’s steadfast support for Ukraine and the considerable experience our Defence Forces have in providing training both at home and overseas, the Government regards the participation of the Defence Forces in this mission as an important signal of Ireland’s unwavering support for and solidarity with Ukraine.”

Larbre34

#EU-MAMMY

aloyisious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289268#Comment_120289268

Unless the demining training takes place after a cease-fire or termination of Russian hostilities in Ukraine, its likely the demining will benefit both sides in the Russian/Ukrainian conflict so the involvement of Irish DF Pers in the training might be seen as a neutral act. It all depends on whether the person looking at the work being done has, or has not, got an aggressive attitude to foreign army personnel doing such work on the ground where conflict is ongoing.

Larbre34

Thats a slightly simplified way of looking at the strategic situation.

Ukraine has what appears to be an ambitious and fairly undisguised counter-offensive planned for sometime in late Spring/Summer, once their armour and air defence / counter artillery situation is improved by pending deliveries from the West.

Depending on how bad the Russian regular units are, they could cut a swathe through occupied territory and begin quite rapidly reasserting their sovereign presence, in which case expert demining as they go will be vital and urgent.

Having Irish personnel training Ukrainian personnel in demining techniques and technologies, in a third Country like Germany or Poland has no bearing on neutrality one way or the other. We have a long history of training the trainers in active and post-conflict zones under a UN mandate and doing so is a humanitarian act, just as much as sending food, shelter and medical aid. It is to save lives, mostly civilians and inquisitive children, whose fate in the leftover minefields of history are well documented.

aloyisious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310337#Comment_120310337

I'm reading the book by Karina Molloy about her experiences serving with the Irish DF. On one of her trips overseas serving with multinational forces, the engineer unit deployed for road, IED and mine-clearance was Ukrainian so it seems they do have experience enough in the art of safely disposing of Ordnance.

aloyisious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120435110#Comment_120435110

I'll go back to the paragraph in Karina's book again to get you an answer but I understood it to include road checking for IED's so the overseas convoys and troops could travel over regular used routes AND also mine clearance as part of the Ukraine Engineers duties. There might have been a difference between discovery of devices and disposal of same by the Ukraine contingent in the one of four of her trips but I don't think it was defined in Karina's book.

Flinty997

I see there some mention in those leaked documents of various nations Special Forces operating in Ukraine.

On the flip side some countries keeping it all at arm's length.

Irish History

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058278106/role-for-irish-defence-forces-in-ukraine

Ah sure why not - that's all the 'Southern Ireland' Vichy State army are good for.

Any countries battle but our own.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121112921#Comment_121112921

[MOD]Aaand... done. You were warned. TempBan expires in a month[/MOD]

Irish History

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121113625#Comment_121113625

Why am I banned? Warned about what exactly? Did I write something that is not true?

Manic Moran

Hmm. Maybe Modutils is iffy. I'll try a different method.

[Edit. Lads, if (s)he pops up again in Military in the next month, let me know, there's a third thing I can try, but it won't auto-expire]

Irish History

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120066255#Comment_120066255

Not having a go at you personally, just stating that Ireland was already invaded and occupied by England and still is occupied by England to this day.

England still obviously occupies the 6 counties and still claims sovereignty over Ireland as a whole, against the will of the vast majority of the Irish people of Ireland as a whole. England still treats Ireland as being part of the UK and Irish people as being British. Just look at some of its laws on its statute books .

Take a look at the foreign British flag and the foreign British Monarchs Coat of Arms. Ireland's Sovereign Seal, the Harp, the ancient symbol of Ireland, which is why England uses it (foreign crown over Ireland) is plastered all over their regalia.

England has no respect for Ireland and the Irish people - it never did. It continues to ignore the fundamental fact that we do not want England interfering in the affairs of our native country Ireland. We want rid of the parasite that is England.

Larbre34

That post you are responding to is 10 months old.

Manic Moran

[Mod]This thread isn't going to go anywhere. Let it die.

[/Mod]