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Role for Irish Defence Forces in Ukraine?

  • 04-01-2023 12:29am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 7,479 ✭✭✭


    We send soldiers overseas on UN missions so why not send a small number to Ukraine not for front line duties but to help with medical evacuation, transport and anti drone support?

    It would be good training/experience and show support to the beleageured people of Ukraine.

    Post edited by Manic Moran on


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭sparky42


    We can only send about 12 without UN Approval cause somehow letting China and Russia decide our Foreign Policy is a good idea... Until of course it isn't.

    What do you suggest that 12 could do that would be of any benefit to the scale of the Ukrainian War?



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,742 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Are their any other countries that are sending their troops into Ukraine to assist the Ukrainians?

    Why do you think that might be?



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,513 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    We are not at war with Russia. That is why we have no troops there.

    if we sent a battalion of troops to assist and defend the Ukranians, they’d have to be armed, in a war zone, therefore, ‘at war’…

    logistically it would cost millions….

    There are no EU troops in the Ukraine. There won’t be any either.

    if you are in the Irish military only to get told… “ ok, you are off to a war zone, in the Ukraine where about 14,000 Ukrainian military have died. “ I am in my **** “ would be the likely response….from 99.99% of men and women…correctly too. Why would you risk your life for The Ukraine and Ukrainians, we are doing more then enough for little enough genuine thanks, without seeing our loved ones head over 3000 kilometres away to risk their lives, some lose their lives into the bargain! 🤷‍♂️



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Are you seriously naive enough to think that Western Forces aren't on the ground in supporting roles? **** sake the Russians "accidentally" fired an AAM near a RAF snooper only a couple of months ago.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,513 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Any politician here, who makes a call to override our neutrality, either publicly or covertly… risks putting their party back to the dark ages.

    as it would be impossible to do it covertly due to the number of people who’d know….and that would be an immense breach of trust between that political entity and the Irish people… no,



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,742 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    There are reports of British troops operating in Ukraine, but that's a covert operation with "high military and political risks". I don't think that's the kind of engagement that saabsaab was proposing. I don't think any country has made that kind of engagement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    @Strumms if you are in the Irish military only to get told… “ ok, you are off to a war zone, in the Ukraine where about 14,000 Ukrainian military have died. “ I am in my **** “ would be the likely response….from 99.99% of men and women…correctly too. Why would you risk your life for The Ukraine and Ukrainians.

    Yet tens of thousands who have travelled to other war zones with the UN did so proudly .

    I'd imagine the majority of soldiers who actually trained for the moment of seeing real combat would More than likely jump at the chance to see real combat experience in Ukraine or elsewhere,

    And since when is the defense forces a democratic system, right lads and girls we had duties do you want to vote which one's you do and don't want to to .

    They are trained first and foremost to fight and kill ,

    They get orders and they follow them



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 6,877 Mod ✭✭✭✭Raichu


    There’s none there for the same reason no one else has their troops in Ukraine, putins threats. No one really wants to be the one who gets involved in the game of chicken with him and finds out if he’ll escalate to nuclear etc. Besides that it’s not our problem.

    Our peacekeeping missions are not in active warzones like Ukraine. It’s a mad notion to get involved in a conflict which one side has repeatedly said interference will be met with swift retaliation. If another country is to get involved and try send Russia packing it would be unwise to do so unless they were capable of defending themselves against Russia also.

    Ireland can’t defend itself against Russia on its own so if we attract their ire we’ve roped the UK & US at the very least into conflict with Russia or we’re absolutely fcuked if they decide it’s not worth it. There’s no real positive outcome to sending our forces into Ukraine one way or the other. The help we could offer would be immediately redundant compared to the harm we’d cause.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,776 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Unfortunately the Ukraine has lost a lot more than 14k. Nearly 100k lost on both sides is what most observers think.

    The Ukraine's are weakening the Russian military with very little help from us and the West. Do you think that Putin would honour our "neutrality"? Especially when we aren't really neutral, as we can't defend ourselves, and putting long range missiles on our Island will make US resupply of Europe difficult.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,172 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    The moment an Irish soldier (as opposed to a soldier from Ireland) sets foot on Ukraine soil assisting in the defence of Ukraine from russian invasion, we become a nation at war. Because we have no capability to defend ourselves at home, this makes Irish Infrastructure a valid target for Russian attack.


    Stop this foolish discussion now, please.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Russia aren't going to attack anyone outside of Ukraine,

    Come on now ,



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,718 ✭✭✭✭degrassinoel


    Pretty sure there was official mention of the ordnance corps training Ukrainian soldiers in bomb disposal. Realistically I think that's as far as we can go to help militarily, and it's not nothing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Even that got complaints from the usual suspects… Shower of gobshites.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,172 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    In January last year people like you were saying Russia was never going to Invade Ukraine. Once we have feet on the ground we become a combatant, and they can say in order to defend themselves from our troops on the ground, they must attack where we train our troops.

    Also, Moldova is currently preparing itself for a Russian attack.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    I said they were going to invade and I've been saying it for the last 9 years.

    Do you honestly think that there are no foreign troops inside Ukraine



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,316 ✭✭✭thomas 123




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,172 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    There are many foreign soldiers in Ukraine fighting against Russia. However there are no foreign armies fighting alongside Ukraine. I hope you can understand the difference.

    Advisers don't count.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,629 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    The only way foreign armies can be of direct help, apart from sending gear, is to accept Ukrainian troops for training in their own Countries; Poland, Germany, Britain and so on.

    Its widely acknowledged that the Irish Army has a particular set of skills with regard to mine clearance and EOD and perhaps we can assist Ukraine in that regard down the line, but thats ostensibly a post-conflict role.

    In the meantime, there is no possibility of any formal role for the militaries of any third party nation inside Ukraine.

    Thats not to say they aren't there anyway, but Ireland will not be among them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,479 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Thanks for the suggestion. I am not of an age to be of much use but if younger and in the defence forces I would if it was to help humanitarian roles. I thnnk many of our soldiers would volunteer for such a mission as in The UN missions. They carry risk too as we have sadly seen recently.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,316 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    Then don't advocate for people to go and put their lives on the line when you yourself are unwilling.

    Ireland has never been on the ground in a war anything the likes of Ukraine. Two modern armies going at it hammer and tongs with the most lethal equipment ever envisaged. Not some lads that got 1 RPG and 3 AKs between them in an unstable region.

    Id recommend you check out a reddit called r/combatfootage to see what the day to day on the ground looks like there, id not want a single citizen of this nation within 1000km of that in any capacity.

    Finally we are a neutral nation, our forefathers fought for us to have that privilege, individuals, leaders and especially sitting ministers should not be so quick to want to change this to look good in front of the UN/Nato/EU.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭Furze99


    "id not want a single citizen of this nation within 1000km of that in any capacity."

    So at what point would you approve? That's the question. Let's suppose Russia eventually overcomes Ukraine and then seeks to expand westwards. Do you/ we just sit on our hands forever, until it arrives onto our doorstep? And if you do accept that there would be a point when our military would get involved, why wait till then? What's the difference.

    These are the same questions that confronted societies in the last two great European wars. And that persuaded ordinary men & women, who would have no interest in fighting, into joining up.]

    Neutrality is all very well and works to a point, until the aggressor just punches you in the face and burns down your house.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,479 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    What I can or can not do personally is not relevant to the discussion. It is about those who could be useful. Is it a good idea to assist using our military in some and I think many have missed that I said 'in non frontline way'.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,316 ✭✭✭thomas 123


     In the last two great European wars was Ireland Invaded or our sovereignty threatened in any major way? Our constitution covers invasion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,316 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    There is no such thing as a frontline in this type of warfare though. The reality is if you put Irish boots on the ground in Ukraine your putting them at tremendous risk.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,479 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    I think you are overstating the risk. I mean some of our politicians and of other countries have gone there without incident.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,629 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Thats very naive.

    Politicians and diplomats have a defined role with defined protections internationally.

    Soldiers are quite simply a legitimate target in a warzone, no matter who they belong to. And if they are caught in civilian clothes, its actually far worse for them. Lets just say that getting put up against the wall and shot would be the best scenario.

    Can we just drop this, its a nonsensical argument and something that simply shall not happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,479 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    It's not. Does a bomb or missile avoid a politician somehow? Soldiers would have to wear a uniform of course anyway why would they be captured if they are not in the frontline.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 6,877 Mod ✭✭✭✭Raichu


    There is definitely. But as stated above, not armies & as I said already if an army wants to march into Ukraine let them. But if Ireland does it? Well we might as well bury ourselves or start learning Russian now.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 6,877 Mod ✭✭✭✭Raichu


    Really struggling to understand why so many people are keen for Irish soldiers to be sent to Ukraine tbh. Is it just typical Irish bravado that we’ll go in and batter them Russians?

    its not our fight why would we get involved. We’ve nothing to prove and a lot to lose. Our military isn’t properly equipped to be of any real use anyway. Just comes across as some alpha hard man notion the Irish boys could do it.

    Consider Sean Rooneys family for a second, imagine how they feel, you’d wish that upon many more families?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,488 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    A non-starter for military as it would not fit the UN peace-keeping or enforcement ops we get/are involved in. Military Pers would likely be pulled out immediately a Russian [or other] firing-close incident occurred causing a risk of fatalities. Maybe as civilians providing assistance on the ground through a UN quango.



This discussion has been closed.
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