Athletics 2023

Lumen

Is it not controversial or racist to state that Kenyan athletics has a doping problem, and it's not sexist to fail to point this out every time a Kenyan athlete wins a race.

Blame the cheats, not the commentators.

kirk.

Shoes must be making a big difference over the distance

omicron

Assefas marathon history is 2.34.01, 2.15.37, 2.11.53.

Kiptums is 2.01.53, 2.01.25, 2.00.35.

I don't think it's sexist to find one of those harder to believe than the other? (And I find both fairly hard to believe!)

kirk.

There's no talk of a new drug is there

Runster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121223500#Comment_121223500

I think you're missing the point, read back on the pages about Assefas record and anyone would think that a pair of shoes without a motor in them won the race. There was studies being pulled out about shoes, maths equations. it was ridiculous. These people just could not accept a woman could run that time.

Then a 23 year old male comes along and runs 2 hours and its expected. Hilarious.

bucketybuck

But it was expected before the race. Thats rather a big difference.

Its moronic to just decide and proclaim everybody is sexist, but thats the internet for you.

Runster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121224225#Comment_121224225

Its moronic to be defending the lads who are saying that a pair of shoes won the womens record.

Runster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121222025#Comment_121222025

Black people tend to have proportionately slimmer hips, larger upper-leg and buttock muscles, smaller calf muscles and more fast-twitch muscles when compared to most other races.

Slimmer hips matter because a sprinter's footsteps fall on a straight line; a person with wider hips is less efficient because more of his/her effort is expended swinging his/her leading foot inward towards the centre line on which he/she is running. In addition, more energy is expended shifting the weight of upper body side to side to be over the leg that is in contact with the ground.

It is intuitively clear that larger, more powerful upper leg and buttock muscles should translate to greater acceleration and top speed. The physics of proportionately smaller calf muscles may not be so obvious until you think of the leg as a whole and remember your high-school physics experiments on leverage: a weight further from the fulcrum (in this case, the hip joint) is harder to lift. In this case, the weight further from the fulcrum is the calf (and, of course, the foot),

Therefore, it is easier to move a leg with a smaller (lighter) calf muscle than one with a larger calf muscle.

The higher-proportion fast-twitch-versus-slow-twitch muscle is also pretty obvious in terms of enabling faster acceleration and top speed. When you take all these physical tendencies together, it is not hard to see why black sprinters have become dominant internationally.

I think that it is more interesting to consider the Caribbean people who have emerged as clearly the best sprinters on the planet. Many, if not most, of the American, British and Canadian sprinters who have excelled over the past 30 years are actually Caribbean in origin, especially Jamaican. Add to that the domination of the Jamaicans over the past few Olympic Games and the emergence of other Caribbean nations in the London Games, you have to recognise that the real sprint superiority isn't just black, it is Caribbean.

Runster

Actually lads, I take back what I said about sexism after reading some of the comments such as there being no genetic difference between white people and blacks and after thinking about the fact that some men actually think a pair of shoes broke a womens record.

Its actually just people who are mentally challenged lol, nothing to do with sexism.

yerwanthere123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121221470#Comment_121221470

Utter tripe, as usual. It goes without saying that the shoes are playing a huge role in his success, it doesn't need to be explicitly pointed out every time. It's also quite possible that doping is playing a role, I don't think anyone is denying that, but I think most people are (like me) happy enough to accept a performance until there's a failed doping test or a connection to a particularly dodgy coach.

The comments about Assefa are perfectly reasonable and justified. She's gone from being an average 800 metre runner to marathon world record holder by a huge margin. Both her and Kiptum have had unusual rises to prominence, but Assefa's stands out a lot more.

To suggest there's something "sexist" in questioning how a remarkable record was set is nonsense. It's equally nonsensical to state that anyone on here is saying that "a pair of shoes broke the women's record". Nobody is saying that, nor are they denying that Assefa is a supremely talented athlete. What is being stated is that the shoes gave her a huge advantage. There's a reason why marathon times started dropping rapidly from 2018 onwards, and the benefits of the modern day shoes are indisputable. That's not to say that the modern day marathoners aren't talented athletes, but the shoes are pushing them to times that they ordinarily wouldn't have been capable of. There's nothing wrong or "sexist" about pointing out basic facts and contextualising performances.

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121224546#Comment_121224546

Rattled?

Lazare

You call out sexism and include me, I respond agreeing with you, and maturely admit a level of sub conscious sexist bias in myself.

I point to a post of yours that displays sub conscious racism.

You ruminate for seven hours before copy and pasting an (incorrect) article you found online and passing off as your own opinion.

You then call me mentally challenged.

lol indeed.

Runster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121225099#Comment_121225099

I never called out your post for sexism, I showed your post as an example of all the compliments Kiptum received.

But now that you say it, I have been on the receiving end of you liking several negative comments aimed at me on this forum even though I've never had any kind of interaction with you before today.

Your comments about me being racist because I pointed out scientific evidence that Black people are better runners is on you.

Pherekydes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121224233#Comment_121224233

You should consider sending your considerable research on the shoes to the shoe companies. Explain to them how they've been wasting millions or hundreds of millions of dollars on research (involving mathematical formulae-the horror) and we should all be running world records in plimsolls.

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121225263#Comment_121225263

Every single post of yours on this forum is tinged with snideness and bitterness. I've hit the thumbs up button on the odd retort to that attitude because I don't like snideness and bitterness.

You need to have a good think about why it is that you're bitter, because it's a You problem.

There certainly is plenty of scientific evidence as to why the Nandi of Eldorat dominate distance running, or the Jamaicans and African Americans dominate sprinting, but it's not because 'Blacks' are genetically different.

It's an idea that's still massively prevalent, but has been categorically debunked by population geneticists.

The idea of genetic differences between white and black people underpins racial stereotyping.

You can maturely accept that it's possible you have an unconscious racist bias (I had too until reading and discovering) or you can rant more bitterness.

That's on you.

Runster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121225446#Comment_121225446

Nasty coward. You wouldn't even retort unless you had the lads backing you.

Wheres the real men gone?

Lazare

I guess you like the second option.

Runster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121225546#Comment_121225546

Imagine about 10 males all having turns to have a go at one single female. Sad

Lazare

I'll respectfully bow out. If you feel you're being piled on I don't want any part of that.

Runster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121225674#Comment_121225674

Are you having a laugh? You are very much a part of it and you know it

Ceepo

Just on the new Nike and adidas shoes. The article states that they are "prototype"

It's like a dream to me that WA have banned prototype shoes from competition.

Was this only for championship races?

https://www.runnersworld.com/uk/gear/shoes/a45481094/war-of-the-super-shoes/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBRWUK&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR3zsAVgshfTanWBJQSpySFjnVcogVFaGwoB9KioeJF1qZlPgT-Anb3SI1o

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121225721#Comment_121225721

You interacted negatively with me this morning, out of the blue. I have never interacted with you before.

I thought you were a hypocrite on a high horse so I engaged. Politely.

You called me mentally challenged, and a nasty coward.

I'm bowing out because while you clearly have no problem dishing out insults, you can't handle a mirror being put up to you.

Let's go back to ignoring each other.

Pherekydes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121225592#Comment_121225592

What are you talking about? Calling out your rubbish is not 'piling on'.

I had no clue that you were female. 🤔

Runster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121225905#Comment_121225905

No I didnt, I quoted your compliment of Kiptum along with two other users compliments as an example of how Kiptum had been viewed as a hero for running. I never once metioned you in any way. You can go back to this mornings post and see that.

Your mind caused you to respond negatively.

You have been liking negative comments that your pal who you race with quite frequenty has been writing for quite some time now.

I have never responded or interacted with you before today but you have been itching for some response from me.

Runster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121225446#Comment_121225446

I want an apology for this post, you dont know me from Adam and this is a hugely personal, hateful comment. I take huge offense from this.

Where have I posted spiteful comments, you're trying to justify and deflect from your misogynist behaviour.

Runster

......

deisedude

Ah lads will ye stop at this stage ye are ruining the thread for the rest of us and we don't give a shite which of ye is right or wrong

winstonia

Kiptums training schedule is the most insane thing I've ever seen. He will be burnt out in 2 years if it continues.

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121233299#Comment_121233299

You might be thinking about the same social media post I've seen - who knows how legit it is though?

winstonia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235594#Comment_121235594

Twas a video breakdown. Probably from the same post. 300k a week