The lets make alooo(o)f regret it in his first week Munster v Leinster Build up Thread

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120039029#Comment_120039029

I don't buy that argument for Murray at all. What special thing does he do that Casey couldn't? Closing out games in those circumstances usually falls mostly on your forwards. SH is generally just shovelling the ball to set pods in that situation. That's a basic task for any SH. Biggest knock against Casey was his kicking and that's come on immensely. I'd rather have both SHs be capable of playing the high tempo game, which we've seen repeatedly that Murray is incapable of doing.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120040957#Comment_120040957

Experience, murray has spades of it at lots of levels and while he cant keep a tempo game going for long he can keep a slow game safe for long.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120040980#Comment_120040980

Can you put that into anything quantifiable? Sounds like a rather nebulous reason to keep picking probably the poorest performing "starting" SH in the provinces. If Casey needs "experience", then play him. Murray has been past it since 2019

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120040996#Comment_120040996

There is a time and a place for an old head and experience, and there is a time and a place for youthful exuberance.

Im not ignoring Murray's limitations, but im not writing him off, his defence is better than Caseys, his kicking is better, he is vastly more experienced and there is a time and a place for both.

The problem here is really that no other irish SH has come through that offers the physicality of Murray with the speed he used to possess, so they are settling for the speed and accuracy.

If we are a few points up in the end game defending a team chasing a score then casey is the wrong man to have, he gets hidden on the wing and the result of that was evident against Gloucester when he got only a YC for ‘tackling’ their winger in the air.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120041101#Comment_120041101

The Toulouse game as well; Shane Daly had to bite in to assist tackle Marchand with Casey, who popped it off to Dupont and it was a very straightforward try from there.

I entirely agree, Murray is still a significantly stronger defender; he's exactly the type of player you'd want while defending a lead at the end of the game.

Former Former Former

Watched the game back today. Carbery’s last action was the Campbell try. For the last 15 minutes, Casey and Crowley were the half backs and Munster were completely unable to get any territory or keep possession beyond two or three phases.

Casey certainly injected pace and that 50-22 was a thing of beauty, but Munster may well have been better off with Murray in those last 15 minutes.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120041293#Comment_120041293

I don't think we score the Campbell try with Murray on tho. The 50-22 was obviously a huge factor in the try, but so was Casey's speed of passing in the phases beforehand.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120041310#Comment_120041310

Not a hope we score they try with murray at 9

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120041310#Comment_120041310

Definitely, just agreeing with the point above that Murray is absolutely the man you want on the field in certain circumstances.

Also, on repeat viewing, Crowley did not play well in any respect when he moved to 10.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120041343#Comment_120041343

And you don't have to look too far for this certain circumstances. He'd have been perfect in the defensive line towards the end of the game for Leinster when they weren't commiting anybody to the breakdown.

Agreed on Crowley too, but would like to see him start at 10 vs Ulster now.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120041354#Comment_120041354

Yeah exactly, he needs a start in a meaningful match with hopefully a strong pack in front of him.

TRC10

We have this weird obsession in this country, whenever a highly promising young out half comes through, of playing them literally anywhere but 10.

We did it with Carbery and Frawley, to the detriment of their development. And we're now doing it with Crowley.

Munster need to stop f*cking around with him at 12 and 15. Bite the bullet and back him at 10.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120041377#Comment_120041377

I think they would have but for Carbery’s recent form.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120041377#Comment_120041377

I think its because of the lack of a better 12 as opposed to just trying to play him out of position. If farrell wasn't serving a stupid suspension it might be different.

We could well see crowley at 10 and carbery 15 but then the only option is scannell at 12, and he isnt any upgrade on crowley at 12 and daly 15.

Dubinusa

Harry B has been played at 12. Frawley too obviously. I hope to see HB get minutes this week.

Former Former Former

Dan Carter started at 12. Jonny Wilkinson started his test career at 13. Matt Giteau alternated between 9, 10, 12 and 15. Romain Ntamack started at 15. Neil Jenkins, Gregor Townsend, Owen Farrell, Stephen Jones, Dan Biggar, Beauden Barrett... even Johnny Sexton shifted to 12 on occasion

Playing a few games out of position isn't detrimental to an out half's development and it isn't an Irish thing.

If Crowley, Frawley or whoever is genuinely good enough, they'll claim the 10 jersey and the issue goes away.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120041557#Comment_120041557

True! Frawley can play just about anywhere.

Podge_irl

Carbery and Frawley are both better not at 10 also which was a huge part of both of them being moved.

The biggest problem Frawley has is he just keeps getting injured.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120041377#Comment_120041377

Irony of this from a fella who, until very recently, was adament that Ringrose should be playing on the wing for Ireland.

Also, I've maintained for a long time that Carbery and Frawley are not natural 10s. Carbery should have been left alone at 15 and I still believe Frawley is a 12 who can play 10 to a decent level.

Crowley, in comparison to both, looks far more like a natural out-half.