BEWARE.Signature windows gone into Liquidation. Any lost money to theses con artists? HELP!!!

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292320#Comment_120292320

Strange that the online version was missing the info on Cardinal windows, maybe just edited out to make it fit for some reason. Cardinal sounds like the usual sideshow or workaround to keep money flowing when it shouldn’t.

Well done for telling your story, the fame photo gives the appropriate stern look as required to match the headline. I’m amazed it’s taken this long for the media to pick this up. The fact that it’s the same liquidator 2nd time round rings alarm bells for me and it’s likely the creditors meeting will be a scripted farce.

I informed Megrame of the published date for the creditors meeting on Friday and they claim they weren’t officially notified of the meeting either but that other customers had also informed them.

Hebs14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292528#Comment_120292528

Thanks for this. If I've understood this correctly, creditors are supposed to be sent a proxy form which must be returned allow them to attend the creditors meeting???

I emailed Alan Fitzpatrick, asking to attend, but of course I haven't heard back from him.

walterking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120295167#Comment_120295167

I'm not sure of the exact process, but another liquidator who you could nominate would know what is required.

My understanding is the liquidator has not officially been appointed, therefore does not have any duty towards you.

The notice is in effect the only thing applicable at this juncture.

It is highly unlikely that anything would be left for unsecured creditors, so many people just write it off.

It wouldn't take too many customers attending and opposing the company's nomination successfully

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120295167#Comment_120295167

Same, no reply from the email address published on the newspaper notice of the creditors meeting.

Normal sequence for distribution of any assets recovered is secured creditors first in the order of Revenue, Banks, Leasing Companies etc. Usually no funds left well before they get down to unsecured creditors such as suppliers and customers. Not what anyone wants to hear but it seems to be the usual outcome unfortunately.

Hebs14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120295833#Comment_120295833

Yes, I'm not expecting anything. We're definitely at the back of the queue.

It's so very wrong. Particularly for those people who paid deposits in December. Literally daylight robbery.

A New earth

Signature Windows and Doors Limited, NORMAL (businessbarometer.ie)

DOCARCH

Mod Note: I have deleted a couple of posts (to do with family bereavement/directors). Just not appropriate for this forum.  

iwillhtfu

Interesting that a poster earlier described how he was directed to cardinal windows for payment and in that article it would appear that cardinal windows are owed money also. To me it sounds like the directors from signature windows have a hand in Cardinal and that Cardinal will be listed as creditors in the liquidation. Perhaps I'm way off but a terrible situation for all those with orders lodged.

joe1303l

My submitted request to attend the creditors meeting has not been replied to/acknowledged yet. Has anyone actually received an invitation to attend the virtual meeting next Monday ?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120300225#Comment_120300225

You'll receive it after 4pm on the 5th of March.

Hebs14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120300920#Comment_120300920

Thanks. Is that the way it normally works? i.e they wait till the deadline and will then contact everyone?

I'd have thought they would contact all creditors directly to invite them to the meeting, instead of relying on us to find the notice in a newspaper.

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120300920#Comment_120300920

Who informed you of this ? PM if you don’t want to publicly disclose.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120303884#Comment_120303884

Common Sense did, you may have heard of him. It's held over zoom, so the invites are issued from zoom. You don't open zoom and add each email address on receipt, you'd do it in bulk at the end, so then you'd just have to do it once...

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120304197#Comment_120304197

Not sure Liquidators usually work on Sundays but time will tell. It is unusual not to acknowledge the request whatever about the timing of sending Zoom invites.

Sorry to hear that many have been caught by Signature, but not in any way surprised. The Directors/owners of Signature (Mooney & Burke) did the very same thing with Marvin Window customers in Ireland in 2015, and UK last year.

I can give a brief account of my experience, and what happened.

I was waiting on windows or my garage when I got a call requesting full payment even though no confirmed delivery date. I paid, we had built house a few years earlier and had no issues (yet) with windows so no reason to be fearful. Like Signature, we then heard from fitter that Marvin were gone into liquidation. I had to deal directly with Marvin US, pay again for the windows, and have them imported.

The big issue going forward is warranty issues. Anyone who bought from Signature will now have to deal directly with the manufacturer and be aware, the warranty offered by Signature may differ significantly with the manufacturers, it did with us, and after getting legal advice, I was told that the manufacturer is not bound by local distributor warranty offers which are above what the manufacturer offers.

As the windows are US made, there are issues with the Irish climate and over time sash windows do need maintenance, meaning warranty claims are likely. You will have to deal with the US company. I had to get windows replaced under warranty, the manufacturer wanted nothing to do with them and offered me a small cash amount, which refused. Eventually they remade windows, I had to arrange and pay importation/customs, which is a pain in the ass.

As I said, it’s the same owners, having gone down the legal route, all I ended up with was solicitors fees. Get what you can from the manufacturer, but prepare for more problems down the line.

Edit: Sorry, should have added, when Marvin Architectural Ireland died, Signature Windows was born at the same address, virtually the same brochure, so don’t be surprised to see another window company formed by these two in the near future.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120304332#Comment_120304332

Monday morning is also after 4pm on Sunday.

sugarman20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120308169#Comment_120308169

That's a really suitable username you have there, well done.

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120308114#Comment_120308114

Mooney past away in late 2021, his wife involved currently.

spike1966

Zoom meeting Monday at 230pm

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20230227_095459.jpg

We need to nail these crooks

spike1966

20230227_095449.jpg

230pm Monday zoom meeting. Send in forms everyone .we need to nail these crooks who continued to trade for ages knowing they were going to stop trading .ADDRESSES to follow

spike1966

20230227_095449.jpg

This time around they're going to pay up

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120313009#Comment_120313009

Can you confirm what details an out of pocket customer needs to add to this form and can it be submitted by email ?

spike1966

20230227_095437.jpg

Fill form and send to email attached and you should receive a zoom link prior to meeting.

spike1966

See email address

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120314606#Comment_120314606

You are going to drive yourself nuts over this. Focus on the manufacturer, unfortunately customers are down the list when it comes to liquidation, Revenue will get first dibs. I’ve been where you are with these people, and if I had my time again I wouldn’t have held out hope for any type of return on my money from them, and I wouldn’t have paid a solicitor money for something deep down I knew was a lost cause.

mariamartin555

our link to the creditors meeting was closed down after 5 minutes and we have been unable to get back in. Is anyone else having this issue also

10-10-20

A sad mess. I've been following this from the first post. I wish you all luck.

Is there any option to have the directors struck-off via the CRO so that this doesn't happen again?

Hebs14

Was anyone else in the meeting. I was. I'm kind of lost for words.

iwillhtfu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120321712#Comment_120321712

What was the outcome? I assume a long list of creditors and no customer deposits will be refunded. I wonder will they give a breakdown of payments/creditors? I'd be curious if Cardinal windows are listed and how much was apportioned to them.

Hebs14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120321768#Comment_120321768

A list of creditors was shown. Cardinal not listed. They are 2.2 million in debt, apparently. I would say zero hope of getting anything back.

iwillhtfu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120321986#Comment_120321986

They took an awful lot of orders in bad faith if that's what's owed. Creditors can be listed under several guises. I think you're right though there'll be nothing left if there's anything to take as it stands, awful for tall those with orders place.

joe1303l

Sunday Times had a bit of an update today focused on the recent creditors meeting - Appears obvious they were in trouble for a while and should have wound it up earlier, smells of reckless trading.

Robin54

Has anyone heard anything from the liquidator Alan Fitzpatrick?

Hebs14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120357855#Comment_120357855

I think he's just a figment of our imagination.

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120367809#Comment_120367809

It would appear that he could just well be the most unprofessional liquidator in the country.

AmeliaKK

Has anyone heard from the liquidator since the creditors meeting? The lack of communication is just appalling…

Hebs14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120439941#Comment_120439941

I emailed him asking how to register a claim, but got no reply. I'd really like to draw a line under this whole sorry situation and move on, but they're not even letting us do that!!

em12

Any updates? Has anyone purchased direct from megrame and has it worked out ok? We only just avoided loosing money with Signature we got a quote from them mid November and they followed up end November looking for deposit to lock in prices before end of the year - big sympathy for those who did loose money

Oscar_Madison

Sorry to anyone who lost money on this - can’t be easy at all.

Could i check something, did any of you pay by credit card and if so, were you able to obtain a refund from your cc company?

Thinking of getting windows and it’s certainly the route I’ll be taking if it adds a layer of protection