Long term plan for smoking ban

Good to see a bit of debate, tbh.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993984#Comment_119993984

id be interested to see some of this 'evidence' as it sounds like absolute bolloxology of the highest order to be honest

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993863#Comment_119993863

its debatable as to whether it does no harm, id imagine any type of vapour going into your lungs is a bad idea. i would presume vaping is still less harmful overall though

Real Donald Trump

Going after smokers is an easy target, but why not target obese people, out and about I see way more overweight people than smokers, surely they are huge strain on the health system? But I guess that wouldn't go down so well, fat shaming or some BS like that.

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119994206#Comment_119994206

easy to fix obesity, but would require pi$$ing off too many massive companies...also would have to re-educate the entire health service...

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119994206#Comment_119994206

Fine, let’s make gastric surgeries free to everyone.

Real Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119994226#Comment_119994226

Higher tax on crappy foods would be a start, if they can do it on cigs, why not rubbish food?

The thing is, it's not about going after smokers. It's about making the next generation not become smokers. No mention of taxes or otherwise.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119994235#Comment_119994235

Or why not bring in a policy that actually helps people living with obesity?

The idea is that each year, the age at which one can legally purchase cigarettes will increase. So, kids who are now 14 would have to wait 4 years to be able to purchase cigarettes legally. By which time they would need to be 22 to be able to purchase them legally. And so on. It's a clever way to deal with smoking as a long term plan.

Real Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119994253#Comment_119994253

Touched a nerve have I ?

BagofWeed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119994281#Comment_119994281

Its far from clever, its actually stupid as it'll create a large black market opportunity plus it'll become glamorised in a different way due to its illegality but sure Ireland never learns. The Catholic misery stills casts a long shadow on Irish society as we still see the strong default reactionary position to a problem being a call to ban stuff. I've noticed the increasing moaning and finger pointing at vaping in the last year too. Cigarettes are rank anyway but banning them is just not going to work.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993505#Comment_119993505

an older government document but still….

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119994235#Comment_119994235

Because crappy food in moderation won’t kill you.

Cigarettes due to their addictive properties… one becomes 5 a day becomes 10…15…20…25… according to the HSE about 20 is the average…a day. Smoking in moderation isn’t really a thing.

it would take years and millions of taxpayers money to examine every current and new food product to the market.

plus…714,000 people smoke in Ireland, roughly according to the HSE…

there are not 714,000 unhealthy eaters I’d imagine….

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119994235#Comment_119994235

Something like this , perhaps?

https://www.thejournal.ie/sugar-tax-revenue-5212076-Sep2020/

Run Forest Run

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993307#Comment_119993307

What are the positives to drinking?

The myth that you can drink in moderation as part of a healthy lifestyle has been peddled by many people. But the facts don't support it. Alcohol is every bit as damaging as smoking, and in some cases even far worse. (but this is obviously an inconvenient reality in a nation with our sort of drinking culture)

Tonesjones

Vaping has taken over from smoking. Big tobacco owns most of the Vaping market anyway. Young people are still becoming addicted to nicotine and governments are still collecting taxes generated from nicotine addiction.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993332#Comment_119993332

Cutting the healthcare costs, reducing lost work days, improving citizens health is nonsense is it…. You just made the case for the nanny state since you are not able to act in your own and the community’s interests.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119994325#Comment_119994325

No?

Just your solution of ‘tax crap food’ is like telling someone with skin cancer to just ‘stay out of the sun’.

I was putting that policy to you to see if you actually cared about helping people living with obesity but you don’t.

Kermit.de.frog

The black market in New Zealand must be lacking their lips

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993505#Comment_119993505

Pfft.

I posted before about my mother's aunt, who died in her early 80s despite being a heavy smoker (John Player Special) to the end. Not bad going, eh?

But for years before that she could hardly breathe. 3-4 spells in hospital every year - usually in the winter. Had to have oxygen installed in her home - she'd turn it off when lighting up. Still couldn't quit.

So would she have lived any longer if she'd never smoked - maybe not.

But she had absolutely shít quality of life for her last 15 years at least, gasping and spluttering and couldn't walk ten metres without stopping. All while costing the health system an absolute fortune.

If she'd been spending €100 a pack it still wouldn't have paid for the medical bills never mind the misery it caused to her.

Fúck tobacco.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119994943#Comment_119994943

Lacking their lips possibly from cancer caused by smoking.

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997499#Comment_119997499

You will tend to find that the criminals who utilise the benefits of prohibition don't actually imbibe the prohibited product themselves. They imbibe the money.

BagofWeed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997643#Comment_119997643

They are providing a service to supply consumers with the products they want. The risks involved in trading illicit goods are very high so its no secret the service providers/traders are in the business for the money.

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997791#Comment_119997791

I've no problem with any of that. If people want to do any situation to themselves, knowing the adverse side effects of the said situation, then let them at it. Drugs, cigarettes, fast food, gambling etc. whatever they want. I'd like to see governments provide and tax every single one of these things instead of trying to prohibit one single part.

Hotblack Desiato

If a generation of kids never get addicted in the first place then they won't be creating a black market for tobacco when they grow up. No grown adult in their right mind would decide to start smoking for the hell of it. Tobacco companies have always targeted youth for a reason.

Some say that the biggest blow Big Tobacco took was the invention of the pay as you go phone... a teenager has €20, smokes or credit? Credit wins every time.

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119994365#Comment_119994365

So, €460 million potential savings on healthcare (and, as per my previous post, I would love to know how they came up with those figures, and would imagine they are hugely inflated).

On the other hand, €1.25 billion in tax receipts lost, plus the massive increase in pension funding required. We would definitely need to significantly increase taxes to fund the proposal!

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997064#Comment_119997064

We all have anecdotal evidence of to support the argument one way or another. My grandfather smoked (a pipe) all his life and lived to 92. Never once had a smoking related condition. His many hospital treatments and care in his later years related to his hips & eyes, hearing. I currently have an elderly Aunt who has been in and out of hospital for the past few years with a variety of ailments (and is currently in hospital as they can't discharge her as she is a widow and has nobody living with her who can care for her right now). She is not a smoker. Just recently, a friend's father died at the age of 70 from cancer; never smoked or drank a day in his life.

I am not trying to say that there is no health impacts from smoking. All I am saying is that nobody is able to define them. Even after decades of having them, the warnings on the pack of cigarettes are still vague and generic as nobody is capable of giving definitive statements as there are simply far too many variables when it comes to determining if a person suffering a particular condition, or dying from that condition, is actually related to smoking. And, as a result, any time you see a figure relating to the "cost of smoking" on the health system, that figure is always making wild assumptions and always in favour of the "anti-smoking" lobby. Ask yourself this, in the study quoted by Strumms earlier on this thread - what did they use to define a "smoker" and what did they define as a "smoking-related condition"?

jack of all

As a former smoker I welcome a tobacco-free society; smoking is a dreadful habit and nicotine is probably one of the most addictive substances known to man. I don't begrudge current smokers their hit but I would be very sad if any of my children decided to try it. I've seen first hand the damage that smoking does longterm- to see a family member on 24 hour oxygen, incapable of any physical activity. The mathematics and projections I'll leave to the actuaries, smoking will result in premature death for many and significantly reduced quality of life for most smokers. There are no plusses.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119998115#Comment_119998115

All I am saying is that nobody is able to define them.

Oh I'm sure there are plenty of people and organisations out there able to define them.

I mean it's not that difficult really.

Just analyse the date of health care and the health outcomes for smokers and nonsmokers.

Jinglejangle69

Covid was a threat to public health, so a lot of things were banned to save public health.

Is tobacco not the same?