Long term plan for smoking ban

"New Zealand has passed into law a plan to stamp out tobacco smoking over time by imposing a lifetime ban on young people buying cigarettes. 

Tobacco will not be able to be sold to anyone born on or after 1 January 2009, so the minimum age for buying cigarettes will keep rising."

I think it's a good idea, and I'm a person who smokes.

xxxxxxl

Cant see an issue I used to smoke now I vape. It's not like drinking were there are some positives.

jackboy

A bit slow. I think it would be better to just announce a year to ban them, maybe in three or four years time.

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993310#Comment_119993310

And are you happy to pay the massive tax increase to cover the cost?

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993318#Comment_119993318

Vast savings to be made to the health system so the cost may not be much. Also, will save thousands of lives so I think worth a fair bit of cost.

Real Donald Trump

More nanny state nonsense by Saint Jacinda, the woman is a pure sickner

More of a fan of adult education rather than Government taken away more freedoms.

Galwayguy35

You would wonder why a law is even needed, its not something I gave a lot of thought to but with all the information out there about the dangers of smoking why on earth would any teenager even think about starting the habit.

walshb

Very very few young people smoke these days, and I always look at the very few who are, and think to myself “wtf went wrong here?”

igCorcaigh

I thought they did this years ago?

But, anyway, as a smoker, I think this is a good idea. I don't agree with prohibition of any drug, but ultimately removing tobacco products from Centra, and the like, can only be good. But it needs to be done in a way which reduces the possibility of black markets.

Maybe if someone wants to buy expensive cigars from online stores and stuff, ok.

machaseh

I doubt it will really lead to 0 percent of people born afer 2009 becoming smokers. Even though New Zealand is remote, illegal cigarette trafficking does exist there and will become a growing issue. Just like in Australia where smoking tobacco is super expensive so they just get illegal tobacco from nearby Indonesia.

It might increase stigma of smoking tobacco as a bad thing but for some it could be seen as a status symbol, just like the usage of cocaine.

Had they legalized cannabis, then maybe, but they didn't do that. The people voted against that in referendum.

What will they do to fill that tax void? They must have made a killing

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993380#Comment_119993380

It's surely dwarfed by the spend on resulting health issues

Atlantic Dawn

They should make it that you need to buy a minimum of a carton at a time, €155 a go at current prices, would be biggest deterrent for newbies and a wake up call for addicts. Only sell them in licenced shops that only sell tobacco, 1 outlet per large town making them a pain in the hole to buy.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993406#Comment_119993406

Na doubt it, I think those people will go black market or find something else to destroy their body’s with.

Doc07

Fantastic. Stamp it out, no reason to cave and just accept another generation of smokers.

Something similar for bariatric surgery worth considering also.

Doc07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993357#Comment_119993357

Unfortunately many never smokers vape instead and get addicted to that.

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993324#Comment_119993324

Very little savings to be made on health. And any that can be made wouldn't be made for many years/decades. And easily dwarved by the massive tax and pension holes.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058275721/long-term-plan-for-smoking-ban

Wonder what will happen once those born that year get to vote. In any case doesn't NZ have one of the world's highest per-capita weed consumption?

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993505#Comment_119993505

Hard to believe. Smoking is one of the biggest killers and destroyers of health.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993406#Comment_119993406

But think of the savings on pensions

buried

Well done 'cinda. Governments banning the taxable legal sale of products is a great idea. Look how well that system is turning out with illegal narcotics.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993633#Comment_119993633

I'd say the average cancer treatment costs the equivalent of a good few years of pensions.

FunLover18

Ireland set a goal of becoming tobacco free by 2025, I wonder how that's going. It hasn't been updated since 2019, the pandemic may have had an impact.

https://www.gov.ie/en/policy-information/5df1e7-tobacco-free-ireland/

joseywhales

I smoked my first cigarette when I was 28 and for about 5 years then but I think that is the reason I found it easier to stop. Even knowing how harmful it is, I am not sure I agree with telling adults what they can and can't do to themselves.

It's not about adults. It's about taking a whole generation out of being able to legally purchase cigarettes.

So they might not do it.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993406#Comment_119993406

Pie in the sky nonsense. Resultant health costs are always given as an excuse to increase taxes on cigarettes.

People will still die of something regardless, extending their lifespan by encouraging healthier living is only going to increase the cost of their healthcare. Do you think people who've never smoked require shorter or longer healthcare towards the end of their life?

It's a complete red herring.

Spanish Eyes

Young people these days don't smoke, they vape. It's far cheaper and no harm done except to those who object to the smell of fruit flavoured vapour.

Weed maybe the smoke of choice also instead of tobacco. That's probably cheaper too.

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993612#Comment_119993612

And those who don't die from smoking always live perfectly healthy lives until they die suddenly and cheaply?

There is no evidence to suggest that smoking causes significant additional health costs. Any study that has claimed it does has always been sponsored by vested interests (and often debunked when an analysis of the study is done*) while any attempt at an independent study has always been supressed.

*The reality is that it is very difficult to determine what impact, if any smoking has on healthcare. Studies from vested interests typically attribute the cause to smoking if the victim was a smoker, regardless of whether or not it was - e.g. if a person has a heart attack and they were a smoker - that is counted as a smoking-related issue regardless of the fact that plenty of non-smokers have heart attacks. Nobody can actually say if smoking was the cause. Likewise, many, many, many non-smokers suffer from Cancer, but if a "smoker" suffers from Cancer - it is "because of the fags". This type of false statistical study was made infamous in recent years when "every patient diagnosed with Covid" was considered "in hospital due to Covid" when the reality was most of those patients were in hospital for a different reason and picked up Covid while in there (similarly, when a patient died, if they were found to have Covid, they were included in the Covid deaths regardless of the actual cause of death). Also, you have to ask, what is a smoker? Someone who smoked heavily in their twenties but hasn't smoked a single cigarette in the last 50 years? What if they only gave up 10 years ago? What if they only had the occasional smoke on the rare night out as opposed to 2 packs a day every day for 60 years?

What about the non-smokers? We know that, statistically, they live a few years longer? But isn't a huge part of our healthcare bill spent on looking after the elderly and infirmed? The older someone becomes, the more likely they are to require treatment/surgeries for this, that and the other. Likewise, they will typically require far more expensive palliative and geriatric care in their final years, having outlived their spouse and other close relatives. Is the "hospital bed crisis" not down to the fact that there are so many elderly people using the beds because they are too old to be discharged and have nobody to look after them?

Ultimately, the anti-smoking brigade can't have it both ways. You can't say smokers die younger and smokers cost more. By dying a few years younger, the average smokers saves this (and every) country a fortune.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993640#Comment_119993640

Exactly. So now the dealers have one more product to push.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993794#Comment_119993794

It's gas tbh the amount of pills and stuff old people end up on is staggering. Then you have dementia stuff like that. Current med tech is so advanced it's actually keeping us alive longer than the body currently functions properly. Obviously that may change in time.

Good to see a bit of debate, tbh.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993984#Comment_119993984

id be interested to see some of this 'evidence' as it sounds like absolute bolloxology of the highest order to be honest

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993863#Comment_119993863

its debatable as to whether it does no harm, id imagine any type of vapour going into your lungs is a bad idea. i would presume vaping is still less harmful overall though

Real Donald Trump

Going after smokers is an easy target, but why not target obese people, out and about I see way more overweight people than smokers, surely they are huge strain on the health system? But I guess that wouldn't go down so well, fat shaming or some BS like that.

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119994206#Comment_119994206

easy to fix obesity, but would require pi$$ing off too many massive companies...also would have to re-educate the entire health service...

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119994206#Comment_119994206

Fine, let’s make gastric surgeries free to everyone.

Real Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119994226#Comment_119994226

Higher tax on crappy foods would be a start, if they can do it on cigs, why not rubbish food?

The thing is, it's not about going after smokers. It's about making the next generation not become smokers. No mention of taxes or otherwise.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119994235#Comment_119994235

Or why not bring in a policy that actually helps people living with obesity?

The idea is that each year, the age at which one can legally purchase cigarettes will increase. So, kids who are now 14 would have to wait 4 years to be able to purchase cigarettes legally. By which time they would need to be 22 to be able to purchase them legally. And so on. It's a clever way to deal with smoking as a long term plan.

Real Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119994253#Comment_119994253

Touched a nerve have I ?

BagofWeed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119994281#Comment_119994281

Its far from clever, its actually stupid as it'll create a large black market opportunity plus it'll become glamorised in a different way due to its illegality but sure Ireland never learns. The Catholic misery stills casts a long shadow on Irish society as we still see the strong default reactionary position to a problem being a call to ban stuff. I've noticed the increasing moaning and finger pointing at vaping in the last year too. Cigarettes are rank anyway but banning them is just not going to work.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993505#Comment_119993505

an older government document but still….

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119994235#Comment_119994235

Because crappy food in moderation won’t kill you.

Cigarettes due to their addictive properties… one becomes 5 a day becomes 10…15…20…25… according to the HSE about 20 is the average…a day. Smoking in moderation isn’t really a thing.

it would take years and millions of taxpayers money to examine every current and new food product to the market.

plus…714,000 people smoke in Ireland, roughly according to the HSE…

there are not 714,000 unhealthy eaters I’d imagine….

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119994235#Comment_119994235

Something like this , perhaps?

https://www.thejournal.ie/sugar-tax-revenue-5212076-Sep2020/

Run Forest Run

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993307#Comment_119993307

What are the positives to drinking?

The myth that you can drink in moderation as part of a healthy lifestyle has been peddled by many people. But the facts don't support it. Alcohol is every bit as damaging as smoking, and in some cases even far worse. (but this is obviously an inconvenient reality in a nation with our sort of drinking culture)

Tonesjones

Vaping has taken over from smoking. Big tobacco owns most of the Vaping market anyway. Young people are still becoming addicted to nicotine and governments are still collecting taxes generated from nicotine addiction.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993332#Comment_119993332

Cutting the healthcare costs, reducing lost work days, improving citizens health is nonsense is it…. You just made the case for the nanny state since you are not able to act in your own and the community’s interests.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119994325#Comment_119994325

No?

Just your solution of ‘tax crap food’ is like telling someone with skin cancer to just ‘stay out of the sun’.

I was putting that policy to you to see if you actually cared about helping people living with obesity but you don’t.

Kermit.de.frog

The black market in New Zealand must be lacking their lips

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993505#Comment_119993505

Pfft.

I posted before about my mother's aunt, who died in her early 80s despite being a heavy smoker (John Player Special) to the end. Not bad going, eh?

But for years before that she could hardly breathe. 3-4 spells in hospital every year - usually in the winter. Had to have oxygen installed in her home - she'd turn it off when lighting up. Still couldn't quit.

So would she have lived any longer if she'd never smoked - maybe not.

But she had absolutely shít quality of life for her last 15 years at least, gasping and spluttering and couldn't walk ten metres without stopping. All while costing the health system an absolute fortune.

If she'd been spending €100 a pack it still wouldn't have paid for the medical bills never mind the misery it caused to her.

Fúck tobacco.