Snooker Match Fixing Investigation - Yan Bingtao biggest name to be suspended

Cetyl Palmitate · 12-01-2023 10:07pm

It's very disappointing no matter what way it turns out. Particularly for Yan bintao and zhoa xingtong, both of whom were really showing that they could compete and challenge for the big ones.

The much mocked interview with Rob walker in Yan Bingtao's house showed what the reality of life was for one of the more high achieving young Chinese players of the time was though. A normal terraced house around Sheffield. It wasn't very glamorous and must be difficult change in life and environment for young fellas with few close family and very little of the language. I can only imagine what it would be like to be landed in a regular house or apartment in a regional Chinese city in similar circumstances.

They all seemed to hang out together on a daily basis too while practising. Perhaps there are more sinister elements involved or perhaps in became a little normalised within the group as a handy way to earn a little extra money.

While I don't condone the behaviour and believe it should be punished appropriately should the case be proven I do feel some sympathy for them.

Peter File · 18-01-2023 12:22pm

https://wst.tv/wpbsa-statement-18th-january/

confirmation of the charges

18-01-2023 12:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120124035#Comment_120124035

Desperate craic. More to it then than just being involved in fixing a match; they’ve been betting on matches and trying to obstruct investigations.

loyatemu · 18-01-2023 12:59pm

If you're not making enough, you have lost too many matches.

there's a balance to be struck here - you can't just have the top 16 playing each other over and over throughout the season, the sport and the tour needs the lower-ranked players too. The tour has to decide how many players it can support and then make sure that they are all making enough money to support themselves, otherwise they leave themselves open to this sort of thing (there's a reason tennis is so prone to fixing as well - 1000s of professional players, many of them earning next to nothing).

If players are losing too many matches then their tour card should be at risk, but on a season-by-season basis tour players shouldn't be struggling to survive. I'm not saying these guys shouldn't be punished, but if one player is crooked then that's just a bad egg, but if a whole load of players are on the take, particularly a distinct group like in this case, then it points to a systemic problem.

18-01-2023 1:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120124204#Comment_120124204

So what about professional GAA players? They manage to train and perform all while having normal full time jobs outside the sport.

Being a professional sports player in a sport which doesn’t earn you enough money to live is not an excuse to fix matches or break the rules.

Bare in mind also this is a very scarce occurrence and the group are all affiliated in some way or the other.. I would agree it points to a systemic problem but it’s not in snooker.

Arthur Daley · 18-01-2023 1:14pm

This is bad, particularly the Yan and Zhao developments.

If it was just a bit of punting, like Stuart Bingham they'd have a route back to the top of the game.

In the last two years these two were pushed as the future of the game. Now they are damaged goods, out of it for the next 3 or 4 years, maybe even longer.

It is a bit of a disaster. But the game will move on without them, and learn the lessons to protect the overwhelming majority of the tour which is straight.

I did think something was up when I saw Jimmy constantly push Lisowski and Vafaei as the future of the sport in their Masters quarter final last week.

The match fixing is the real problem. Shaun Murphy wants any match fixing to be a lifetime ban, and their will be others who agree with him.

18-01-2023 1:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120124272#Comment_120124272

To be fair Vafaei is bloody good. Jimmy wouldn’t be too far off I’d say.

I think a lifetime ban as standard is probably OTT. A case by case approach is definitely better here. Like if someone had been threatened or their family threatened as I said before you could absolutely understand why they did it. I think they still should be banned but lifetime? Nah.

farmingquestion · 18-01-2023 1:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120124204#Comment_120124204

Nah.

There's a line in every professional sport where the effort/time put in doesn't give the money you want.

And even if you did give X players a certain amount to live off...there's always greed. People always want more and some will be willing to cheat to get it. Look at John Higgins or Yan now...

farmingquestion · 18-01-2023 1:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120124272#Comment_120124272

Snooker is in a worse state than could be imagined if Vafei (28) and Lisowski (32 in June) are the future...

18-01-2023 2:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120124325#Comment_120124325

I have to be confused by that too, cos when I go to the local community centre there’s loads of kids and teenagers playing snooker but my snooker club has mainly older lads (25+). And the majority of even older than that.

So there’s obviously young lads interested in snooker but for whatever reason they don’t seem bothered to make it more than a semi regular activity. Granted one pair of young lads stood out to me the other day, while popping coins in the ESB meter for the table lights they were counting their change and one made a comment about nearly being out of money. The response from his friend was, with sincere worry, “how will we play tomorrow then?”

I think it needs some more work on the part of the professional and semi-professional players and coaches etc. when I think about snooker in Ireland it’s very hard to find a place to play for one thing but then when you do it’s all more or less just done for profit. I can think of 3 places right now I could play snooker outside of the club (so “casual” game) and all of them charge for the use of the table to make a profit.

But if I wanted to play hurling or soccer there’s a hundred places I can go to do that for free. Of course GAA isn’t a fair example it has funding up the wazoo in Ireland but the same applies to most sports really. Tennis just find a tennis court (I know one or two that are free to use), basketball same idea I know a few spots to play and it’s a public court so it’s free and so on.

But snooker is I guess viewed as some sort of pub game that is just for a bit of craic and a way to dispense of extra coins. Pool the same. Not begrudging pub owners or whatever making a few pound off snooker by any means either, but I’m trying to understand why the sport is in the state it’s in. It seems fixated to make money not make the player any. In fact even at amateur levels you’ll prob spend more to play the game than you’ll ever make from tournaments etc.

Outside of a club (which ofc have membership fees so even then) or owning your own table there’s no way to practice for “free”, so even just honing the craft could cost you upwards of €10/hr. Spend 20 hours practicing and it’s cost you €200! Can’t think of many sports where you’re spending money hand over fist to play and practice regularly.

farmingquestion · 18-01-2023 3:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120124552#Comment_120124552

Snooker is a dying sport and that's just the way it is. It will never get back to where it was.

The level of skill needed is off the charts. You need to spend 4 or 5 hours a day as a youngster to get to a decent level. And nowadays you have tiktok and instagram and what young lad is going to spend 4 or 5 hours in a dark hall while his pals are all out having the craic and chasing girls.

Arthur Daley · 18-01-2023 4:22pm

Yan and Zhao would have grossed 200k each for each of the last 2 or three years.

That's before sponsorships, exhibitions and other work.

So their activities have nothing to do with keeping the wolf from the door or the annual struggles of lower ranked snooker players.

Low ranked players never made much money from the tour. Tour prize money alone can only probably keep top 32/ top 48 reasonably comfortable on an ongoing basis.

ArmaniJeanss · 18-01-2023 4:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120125116#Comment_120125116

Again, not defending them but I'd have a couple of points.

Exhibitions? - what sort of money would players with limited English expect to get in exhibitions? A huge part of that circuit is turning up, having a bit of craic, telling a few risque stories, engaging the crowd. They can't do that so I suggest they'd be in the extreme bottom tier when it comes to exhibition demand.

Other work? - Would their visas even allow them to do other work? I'd suspect the UKHO is quite strict about what they can do. (To an extent this is also aimed at the poster Genghis who seemed to think the lowly-ranked could be like Irish semi-pros and do casual work to earn extra. That's a privilege not everyone has).

Arthur Daley · 18-01-2023 5:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120125156#Comment_120125156

I'd presume they can do promotions, sponsorships etc for the Chinese/wider Asian market, even with the lockdowns, media appearances etc that don't require them to visit China.

Not all exhibitions will be of the old Dennis Taylor variety, Ronnie, Hendry and others do exhibitions that are centered on the snooker and not their personalities. Indeed PC in the last 10 years has destroyed a lot of the act for Dennis and John Virgo etc and it is sadly curtailed.

Not all of a Globe trotting snooker players activity will have to be prohibited by the UK Home Office. These days with streaming etc. I don't see why elite sportsmen should be restricted in this way, even if they do reside in England.

Anyway, I think we are heading down a bit of a cul de sac, it is very disappointing that these two players making 200 grand a year in recent years should be involved in this and risk destroying their careers.

gormdubhgorm · 18-01-2023 5:17pm

That WPSA statement does not look good at all.

https://wpbsa.com/wpbsa-statement-18-january-2023/

Obstruction of justice, approaching other players, match fixing etc. Plus all the lads are Chinese. Could be seismic for the sport of snooker.

Just when it looked like Snooker had a bright future with the Chinese interest, more money, population etc. It looks like it is going to be the Chinese that will end up bringing the game of snooker backwards

farmingquestion · 18-01-2023 5:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120125156#Comment_120125156

I went to an exhibition between Ronnie and Jimmy White and I couldn't believe at how little craic they had while playing. They both pretty much played like they were playing a normal match. The only one with a bit of craic was Virgo commentating.

18-01-2023 6:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120125035#Comment_120125035

I mean I literally explained how only last week I encountered two chaps who’s primary concern was where they’ll get a few quid to play again the next day.

Look TikTok, Instagram etc haven’t ruined snooker. And young men dying for the ride is definitely not a new phenomenon. Snookers dying because it’s not publicised enough. As it stands right now I can’t watch the Grand Prix EXCEPT on ITV4… not on Eurosport, discovery+ etc (as it has been advertised..) it’s on the only channel I don’t have atm. I can’t watch on ITVX either cos I’m not in the UK.

now compare that to soccer or something, no problem whatsoever with watching a match every channel on television was playing the World Cup for example. This is why snookers dying. It’s not because young lads are hornier than usual or TikTok is more important

Arthur Daley · 18-01-2023 7:02pm

It is on ITV3 tonight. Must be FA cup on ITV4.

It is not on British Eurosport or Discovery unless you are in Europe, i.e. on the continent. The British rights to the tournament belong to ITV so Eurosport coverage has to be geo blocked.

DJIMI TRARORE · 18-01-2023 7:25pm

Have World Snooker done/said anything about withdrawing all their competitions from the Chinese mainland ,that should be the 1st thing done,but like every other sport they'll go where the money is. It'll not get better for at least 5 years,there is literally no new names/youth coming through, still relying on the older generation

farmingquestion · 18-01-2023 7:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120125642#Comment_120125642

No it's dying because the skill level to become competitive is insane and the work involved is insane.

And not on about lads dying for the ride..I'm talking about lads who are 13 or 14. All these lads went pro at 16 or 17.

Judd Trump hit a 147 when he was 14! https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/one-for-the-future-judd-trump-14-year-old-snooker-player-cxndfsrx7td

You just won't have young kids spending 4 or 5 hours a day every day anymore when they've got social media. It's a different time.

There's a big difference between a couple of young lads playing snooker for a bit of fun and kids having a real passion for it to compete.

18-01-2023 8:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120125790#Comment_120125790

Even when they were younger snooker was more readily broadcast (BBC used to show almost all matches they could) now it’s much harder to spectate a match.

It’s a shame definitely but I think social media has nothing to do with it. Exposure to the sport is the key. The scene in Ireland especially is not conducive to professional success.

farmingquestion · 18-01-2023 8:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120125988#Comment_120125988

There are far more events on tv now than there were back in the day. Sure there were only something like 6 ranking events.

Arthur Daley · 18-01-2023 8:28pm

Well, worldwide you will have lads willing to do it. Just need a half dozen a year to breakthrough to the pro tour.

Jackson Page is 21 and about to break into the top 64. Should be top 16 within a few years.

WST are dying to get back into China next season, I saw some suggestions the Shangai Masters will be on next September.

Whatever about these 10 Chinese players being charged for wrong doing, the Chinese market is too big and Chinese fans and the rest of the tour shouldn't be punished for this, when they've done nothing wrong and the Chinese fans have had a terrible 3 years watching us getting back to normal with loads of tournaments on in the UK.

18-01-2023 9:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120126005#Comment_120126005

Brother are you reading my posts in their entirety or are you just picking random points to argue with?

Yes they’re televised but as I said already the Grand Prix for instance is ONLY on ITV4. If this was the premier league or something it would be on RTE, Virgin, BBC, ITV, Sky Sports, BT sports etc etc. point being you’d have plenty of avenues to watch.

ArmaniJeanss · 18-01-2023 11:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120126431#Comment_120126431

Out of interest, do you follow soccer much? Because there are non-stop complaints about games being behind pay-wall or on stations that we can't access even if we wanted to pay, Saturday 3pm blackouts or random midweeks being exclusively on Amazon. Even something which is kinda free like the Champions League there'll be complaints that the fta broadcaster has picked the wrong game.

ITV4 isn't as inaccessible as you seem to think, it's a normal enough station that comes with 'the basic package' for lots of us. Just because you can't watch it (for which I sympathise) doesn't mean there is something fatally flawed about the snooker/tv deal.

19-01-2023 1:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120127109#Comment_120127109

I have Sky Glass & Eir TV it’s on neither. My point being it’s only on one channel limiting people who can’t access it. ITV doesn’t want ROI watching because they rebroadcast on Virgin.

I think my points being taken rather too literally as well. Are you actually going to try and argue that compared to other professional sports snooker is much less advertised and generally discussed? How can a sport garner popularity if it’s hardly even mentioned.

I’ll give you an example you might even have heard yourself. Monday morning I was listening to newstalk & Pat Kenny and was discussing sports news. Soccer news was talked about in fair detail for 10 mins or so, Pat literally said one sentence about the masters. It wasn’t even responded to by the sports presenter! 😂

”Judd Trump won the masters”

“Yeah”

That’ll surely encourage folks to get excited for the sport ffs.