Mexico v The Wildlings match thread.

Dave_The_Sheep

Back from the game a short while. Some of the comments here from non-Ulster fans have made that win all the sweeter.

To our friends in the north, commiserations, that must be a rough one to come through. I really thought at 22-3 we were in for a kicking. Ulster were ruthless and were taking all their chances. Not sure quite what went wrong, Cooney coming off was unfortunate but I didn't think it would have that much of an impact. I haven't seen a replay so don't know what to comment on the fend, will download it at a later point to see once it's available. No complaints about Healy and the red, yeah he was unfortunate given it was a soak tackle but I'd said to my partner about thirty seconds before that that Leinster were entering tackles very upright. It was coming to be honest. Great comeback and intensity though from the Leinster forwards, there were times I thought they were going to murder our backline, given what they squandered at times.

Porter was immense when he came on, Baird and Ringrose also had great games. Byrne was great from the tee, but along with JGP he otherwise had a game to forget. There is something to be said for a rock solid place kicker. Like Venjur, I also thought we should have taken the three at times, but I guess they proved me wrong.

Atmosphere in the stadium was great, one of the best since that Toulouse home game. Even at 22-3 down, I thought the RDS was bouncing and it just went up notches from there on in.

A very satisfying night's entertainment ... you could almost call it ... Le- no. No I just can't say it, horrible turn of phrase.

ersatz

I’ve thrown my arms in the air time and again for Ringrose stepping inside in green but with a step of that quality why not. He scored the same try twice today.

Clegg

Kelleher was quite prominent in the right exchanges this evening. Made it over the gainline with hard up carrying but also through side stepping out of contact. He's made an excellent comeback from injury.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954237#Comment_119954237

I don't know if you're being serious but I doubt any Ulster players or fans feel that way.

They were 22-3 up against 14 men. If they needed that number to be 13 in order to win, then they're absolutely f**ked.

But they won't make that excuse.

Clegg

On paper, Ulster had a very strong replacements bench, but Leinster nullified it and finished much stronger. Very pleased with that.

Clegg

Jamie Osborne is a very classy player as well. Struggled in the openings stages, but made some lovely breaks and offloads in attack. He's the biggest prospect in Leinster and I think Ireland currently. Played and excelled at 12, 13 and 15 this season alone.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954279#Comment_119954279

Stockdale is left footed and a good kicker imo. Cooney and Moore are both good kickers. Other than that..

It’s not Hume or McCloskey’s game.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954392#Comment_119954392

I still dont rate him quite that highly (best prospect wise) but he did impress me alot. Another great kicker as well.

Clegg

Andrew Porter was quoted earlier this season about Leinster looking to adopt a more hard edged, physical style. I think that's what we saw tonight, especially in the second half. From about the 50th minute onward the Leinster pack bullied Ulster's.

They piled into as many rucks as possible and kept making Ulster compete to secure their own ball. In attack and defence Leinster won more and more collisions until Ulster's forwards started slowing down and failing to get into the defensive line quick enough. That's when the gaps opened up and Leinster took advantage.

Moving Baird to 6 has been an excellent decision. He's a dynamic carrier with a lot of power. He'll smash into tacklers all game and wear them down. Same with Doris and VDF. Jenkins is a big man who'll win so many collisions as is the entire front row. The pack seems bigger and more physical than last season. It remains to be seen how we'll cope against the French and South African sides. But we're definitely making steps to counteract them.

CIARAN_BOYLE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954404#Comment_119954404

Exactly.

In Leinster everyone is at least a decent kicker. Osbourne Lowe and JOB are left footers with big boots. Ringrose and Keenan are right footed kickers.

Leinster were able to kick at less confident kickers. When Ulster kicked anyone they kicked at could kick back with a bigger kick.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954237#Comment_119954237

The Timoney yellow was as bad. Never a penalty if they’d only looked at the replay.

Replied earlier but on this specific point... watching it back on TV now I see that Marcus Horan made the above argument. It's simply not right. If all the Ulster players leave the maul, then it's still a maul and Timoney re-entering and dragging it down is a penalty offence.

Ref got it right. 60-cap forward doesn't know laws of the game.

TRC10

The very fact that Ulster were 22-3 up against 14 men and should never in a million years have lost the game from that position, is exactly why I always knew Ulster would lose that game.

Leinster's 2nd half performance was phenomenal though. The less said about the first half the better frankly. Ulster made the breakdown an absolute mess and pushed the offside line to the limit and we really struggled. But we went much more direct in the 2nd half and our power game really came to the fore and gave our backs the opportunity to play. Porter, Baird and Ringrose put in unreal performances. It was a statement performance from Baird. Hopefully he kicks on from this and becomes the player we always thought he could be. Him moving to 6 with Jenkins in at lock gives us extra size and power. Ringrose is probably playing the best rugby of his career right now.

Anyway, onto Europe with 43 out of a possible 45 points in the league. Not bad for a team not playing well, with a poor scrum.

Neil3030

Just watched. Leinster were great. Though if Cooney hadn't gone off, I suspect Ulster would have held things together. Burns and Doak are just not the characters to do what was needed in the circumstances: take control, slow it down, run Leinster around a bit, halt their momentum when needed and ultimately make the man advantage count.

Dave_The_Sheep

The more I look at the Ringrose-Hume yellow, the more I think the step isn't mitigation. The first attempted tackler, 100%. But after Ringrose steps the first attempted tackle, Hume's angle and Ringrose's angle doesn't change. Hume is always high and not a whole lot changes.

Anyway, not a huge deal, but just looking back at it, it's something that struck me. I've had a fair bit to drink and I'm biased so take that into account too.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954691#Comment_119954691

Hume and Healy incidents were both yellow for me albeit greater overall mitigation with Hume.

Lowe could be cited for the contact with Cooney. Has hand was tucked bit his elbow was not - I thought it was more card worthy than either of the two above.

Timoney a stone cold yellow. Advancing maul on the 5m? Yellow every time.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119953922#Comment_119953922

There was no truck and trailer, the ball was always at the front. Just because Ulster disintegrate from the maul doesn't mean the maul is over. The defending team can't just decide to end a maul. It was the correct decision.

Jump_In_Jack

What about the point that Timoney tackled the ball carrier who then turned and collapsed his own maul?

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954365#Comment_119954365

Definitely not.

Obviously losing Cooney cost us significantly, but we should still have held on, and it doesn't bode well for a post Cooney world, albeit Doak should learn from last night.

Unfortunately this group seem to have the same mental deficiencies of the 2011-2014 squad. Yes they are talented, but there is more and more evidence that they lack the top two inches. Toulouse and Stormers last year and now last night. It's something that I think sets Leinster apart from everyone else. Of course they didn't always have it (see Leinster pre 2009) so there is always hope I suppose that something can happen to change the mindset.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954795#Comment_119954795

Yeah tbh that might be a fair point. I don't know who or what he tackled.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954795#Comment_119954795

Anyone who had played the game knows you cannot "tackle" a maul, you can only push it back.

That's considered deliberately collapsing it according to the laws.

On the game, I can understand some people's posts to denigrate billy burns, he was very average last night, but I have some sympathy for him. He shipped an injury on his non kicking foot after about 20 mins which required strapping , and her had to be looked at again about 10 minutes later. He was clearly not right for the rest of the game. Had ulster going 5/3 on bench they could have had enough back cover to bring him off, however they went 6/2. So the choice after 20 minutes was either bring burns off and move Lowry to 10 and bring Stockdale on, leaving doak to cover all the positions from 9 to 15 for the next 60 mins, or allow burns to struggle on. They took the latter choice mainly because of that decision to go 6/2.

It wasn't only burns either who was guilty of headless play on that second half. With the wind and a man up, playing a team down a back field player, ulster should have kicked the leather off that ball and trusted their defensive line. Lowry , McIlroy and Moore were all guilty of over playing the ball in the wrong areas. Something for McFarland and soper to work on (do they have a specific attack coach?)

On the game, it was a cracker. I have no issues with any of the cards. Healy had enough time to go lower and while he started bent over, it was the upward motion into the tackle that caused the head on head contact. No mitigation, fair red. Similarly for hume there's enough mitigation with ringrose changing direction very significantly and hitting his inside shoulder to warrant a step down there. Timoney was as clear cut a professional foul as you could have for bringing down a maul that's steaming forward.

We saw the best and worst of Ross Byrne last night. Excellent organization, defense and kicking ... But ask him to develop a counter attack and he's severely lacking. Did he never play 15 under age??

Loads have already been said about Porter Baird vdf etc. Ryan and Jenkins are definitely our starting European engine room, with either molony or big Joe as reserve. I'm not sure Conan will start those games, the 20 shirt is his. Baird played like a berserk wrecking ball last night and gave none of the ulster players comfort.

Best Leinster performance of this season for me. Relatively even first 20 mins, but after the red and the shock of conceding the Ulster tries so quickly, I felt there was a hunger about Leinster's performance after that that I haven't really seen this season. Atmosphere was excellent too.

Felt we physically dominated Ulster for most of the game.

·        Felt Leinster physically dominated Ulster for most of the game. Forwards made yards in contact virtually all day, and were able to retain ruck ball relatively easily.

·        Outside of the attack that ended in the Ross Byrne shoulder high tackle on Billy Burns, don’t feel Ulster caused any problems in attack. That was the sole time they got outside of us, except for the McIlroy try with the extra numbers. Other than that, felt Ulster’s territory came from penalty concessions which gave them an in to the Leinster 22, and that Ulster maul is very potent.

·        It felt relatively early in the game like Ulster knew they were losing the physical exchanges and went within themselves; they played a lot of the second half like the team who were down a man, slowing the ball down considerably at attacking rucks, kicking badly and generally making no effort to push the play.

·        Additionally, I was amazed at the ease at which Leinster were able to find green grass by kicking into the Ulster backfield all day.

·        On the cards I agreed with the Healy red at the time. He’s not getting low enough and therefore think the red was warranted. But, to me, there should be consistency between both decisions. Healy’s feet are planted, and he absorbs / soaks the impact. James Hume is going into the collision at speed, and is even more upright. It’s strange to me how Healy’s planted feet are not deemed mitigation, but Hume being caught by the step is. There was no malice in either tackle, but yet one gets a significantly more severe punishment. If they are about just eliminating hits to the head, then both those decisions should be red. If mitigation is going to be considered to lower the sanction, then it should be equally consistent.

·        Some sublime Leinster performances – Porter was like a man possessed out there. Baird was everywhere; some huge hits, huge carries, great lineout work. He doesn’t get the credit or hype he deserves for a guy that is still just 23. Ringrose, Lowe and Keenan were all excellent. Jamie Osborne though for me again really shone in some big moments.

·        Perfect prep game heading into Europe for both sides. 

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954237#Comment_119954237

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119953664#Comment_119953664

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119953778#Comment_119953778

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119953803#Comment_119953803

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119953596#Comment_119953596

Also, considering the whining that goes on in the Munster thread about "Leinster fans coming in to criticise Munster", I found these comments quite funny. Akrasia must have just caught the first 50 mins or so of the game, because he was conspicuously quiet thereafter.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954943#Comment_119954943

I dont think its funny to see a player knocked unconscious because of foul play.

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954943#Comment_119954943

There's a difference between commenting in a match thread and commenting in a team thread.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954963#Comment_119954963

It clearly wasn't foul play though. At the point of the collision, Lowe's arm is tucked tight to his body, over the ball. By the time he extends his arm fully, Cooney is already on the ground. It's awful tackle technique from Cooney, who goes too high and gets blown away in the contact.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954969#Comment_119954969

No, there isn't. Or at least there shouldn't be. There are comments from both sets of provincial fans that seem to just intend to wind up opposition fans, but it's blatant hypocrisy to call out one set of fans for it, then to actively engage in it. Akrasia is the one who never fails to mention it when he thinks it's happening, but can't help but engage it in himself when the shoe's on the other foot.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119953536#Comment_119953536

15,990 on wet Saturday night in December. With virtually no traveling support. I really don’t think so.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954971#Comment_119954971

No, He raised his elbow into cooneys head, it was dirty and deliberate something that is an aspect if lowes game, and I reckon had healy not been sent off already he would have looked at it closer.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954978#Comment_119954978

Tom must have had the tv turned down

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954981#Comment_119954981

Lowes arm is against his body when he makes contact with cooney, then he pushes off. Textbook fend. Absolutely perfect.

Cooneys head issue is as a result of the back of his head hitting the ground.

stephen_n

I’d have to watch it back but I thought there are some strange decisions from the referee team. Think they got the big ones right. Healy possibly could have been mitigated to a yellow for low force. Though given the outcome the force clearly wasn’t that low. He dipped and then came back up, so that’s always a risk. Humes was a yellow, there was definitely mitigation. Though there was a high shot on Porter about 5 mins after he came on, right in front of the ref, that should have been looked at more closely. He indicated a penalty at the time. Played advantage and never went back for it.

I really don’t know what objection WR and the referees have to applying the laws around offside. It was a complete joke last night. After about 20 minutes neither side even bothered to try be sly about it. It was obvious you could be 2-3 yards offside and it wouldn’t be called. This congests the 15m area and leads to more of the exact hits they claim to be trying to stop. Just enforce the bloody laws you have.

Ringrose should have got MOTM though there were a few candidates. He really stood up and stood out. Interestingly VDF was very aggressive in his counter rucks last night and frequently made sh1t of their ball. Not his usual game but good to see.

The atmosphere last night was incredible, best in a very long time. Crowd was really fired up and I think it genuinely did help Leinster. Was quite surprised how little Ulster support was there, I would doubt there was anymore than a couple of hundred. There would usually be a lot more.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954365#Comment_119954365

Well Lowe's elbow took out Ulster's Scrum half and Burns was already carrying an injury so they were playing without a fit 10 and with a 9 that did nothing for their gameplan from that point on

The 6-2 split is a risky strategy against a team like Leinster

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954995#Comment_119954995

Why lie about this when there is video footage?

This is the instant before contact

How on earth is Lowe's forearm against his chest?

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119955087#Comment_119955087

Lie? Really you do post some amazing drivel, with relative frequency but that’s ridiculous even for you.

I’m also not sure what you think that picture shows. It really doesn’t show what you think it does though. Lowes arm is clearly across his chest there. I’m not sure what you think you know about human an anatomy but it’s very lacking.

The absolute bitterness of the usual red suspects in this thread, makes the win so much more enjoyable. At least the Ulster fans have a bit of dignity.

sydthebeat

the "weirdest" call of the night was Ross Byrne diving on a loose ball on the ground and the referee giving a penalty against him for a no arms tackle 😂

but i agree, they got the big calls correct. as far as the offside line goes, i find if the ref doesnt put the foot down on it at the start of the game, it tends to be a free for all for the rest.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119955123#Comment_119955123

I don’t think the ref can really police it, that the AR’s need to be stepping up there. I agree though that if it’s not policed early, teams will take the piss.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119955110#Comment_119955110

So you looked at that picture and came to the conclusion that lowe has his arm across his chest?

and then you go on about provincial bias.

Comic. Pure comic.

Its simple Lowe got away with a hit that had a direct material outcome on the result because it made cooney go off. If your a leinster fan its what you want, if your an ulster fan its part of the reason you lost the game.

I wouldnt be surprised if it was cited because its a head hit but typically very very little in the interpros gets pulled.

Clegg

Michael Lowry really struggled last night and I'm now starting to doubt he makes the finalised squad for the Six Nations. He was so poor covering the back field last night that Ross Byrne continuously found acres of space in the 22 to kick at. His most notable contribution in the second half was to give away the penalty which led to Hume's yellow and Ringrose's first try.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119955123#Comment_119955123

The linesman called that one and told the ref.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119955110#Comment_119955110

It's a lie because it's as clear as day that lowe led with the forearm in a filthy and dangerous way that resulted in Cooney suffering an injury

You can watch it.the game is on YouTube

https://youtu.be/F0BI9Wdp3oo

It happened at the 44th minute

If you think that's an acceptable fend then it says more about you than it does about me

Cooney going into make a legal tackleand Lowe elbows him into the head

sydthebeat

point of contact

Theres no leading with the elbow here.

Despite the red tears and hate for JLowe, the referee and TMO both looked at the incident and you can hear ridley clearly say "its that arm starting close to his body and then pushing away, no foul play"

Cooney was unlucky with the whiplash from the collision that lead him to hitting his head off the ground

sydthebeat

:D

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119955181#Comment_119955181

The ref didnt look at it, not in the way they look at incidents of that nature where they take their time and ask for replays or different angles.

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119955175#Comment_119955175

Lowe was also being tackled by another player at the time which is also a major consideration. No foul play there

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119955200#Comment_119955200

so he DID look at it, but not to your liking as a munster fan... rrrriiigghhhtttt. that clears that up then.

Akrasia

Lol.

There are none so blind as those who will not see

Swap the jerseys and you'd be calling that a red card as blatant as any that's ever been given

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119955200#Comment_119955200

Yep. The ref got it factually wrong. Lowe's arm was out before any contact.

Dubinusa

This Leinster culture.....tsktsk.

I would highlight the shocking disparity week after week with the officials. The laws vary from ref to ref! Surely world rugby can run a training camp for officials each summer? Refs like Peyper and Raynal are shocking sometimes. There's no consistency. I think the officiating is really poor.

Akrasia

Just FYI. If a Munster player did that to another team I'd say that they deserved a card and were lucky to get away with it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119955167#Comment_119955167

Losing their scrum half wasn't going to have any bearing on the fact that they were being absolutely monstered up front. Anyone could see that.

But, as others said, keep your moaning up, you're just making it that bit sweeter.