Kenya Ban imminent

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119947500#Comment_119947500

Well of course I read the thread. Sorry but it sounds like speculation to me. Informed speculation maybe, but still guesswork. I’m not naive - I believe doping is prevalent in many sports, and obviously in athletics, and obviously moreso when livelihoods are at stake. But yes, I want to see the hard evidence (including new ABP info alluded to above) when it comes to individual cases. I don’t think that’s a naive position to take.

demfad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119948993#Comment_119948993

Here is Zane Robertson who knows Kipchoge personally saying when he broke the world record in Berlin (first time) he was not 33 but at least 40. That would make him at least 46 now. He would not be alone in Kenya stating this either. Robertson goes on to say. “There [sic] passport ages are all fake so they can cheat Jr’s and get contracts”. When Kenyans are getting their passports their age is supplied by word of mouth or easily faked documents. When you ask a Kenyan athlete their age a running joke is to say "passport age or real age"?

https://twitter.com/runninelvis/status/1055777201466077184?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1055777201466077184%7Ctwgr%5E3c8dc39874ab9bd35f92110a286f42c8a5432fbb%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Frunningmagazine.ca%2Fthe-scene%2Fzane-robertson-swears-kipchoge-is-over-40%2F

More on age cheating in Kenya here. The question for Kenyan athletes should not me "prove I am not the age on my passport" , rather it should be "prove you are the age your passport says".

https://nation.africa/kenya/sports/athletics/Age-cheating-World-U18-Championships-trials-Athletics-Kenya/1100-3951232-1rd6e8z/index.html

When you ask how often is Kipchoge tested do you mean how often in an absolute sense or how often in a test or manner likely to catch him or other Kenyan athletes should they be doping (not saying he is btw)? How many Kenyan athletes have to date been caught by tests carried out by Kenyan authorities?

I was in Kenya and in the camp there was a chap called Richard Lagat who was visiting. Nice guy and a former top runner but modest and understated in the Kenyan way. He was the same crop as the likes of Kipsang and Kipchoge. Anyway he told us about the age he thought Kipchoge was which (as I recall) was well older than his passport age perhaps tallying with Robertson. Anyway, he said he himself was 48. We asked him when he was born and he said 1977, which would have made him 45. When we asked him about it he said that he actually though he was 45. That's Kenya. (Lagat was in the same school as Kipchoge) 🤷‍♂️

demfad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119951390#Comment_119951390

We can talk about speculation or scepticism but the cold hard facts are that 40% of all doping bans in global athletics have come from Kenyan athletes. All the relevant organisations state that doping in Kenya is widespread. In these circumstances you must look at Kenyan athletes more closely, they were on the cusp of a global ban after all which would have included Kipchoge and other stars (those not already serving doping bans). You can be objective and sceptical at the same time. If you keep flicking a coin and get the same side again and again, it is ok to statistically deduce that there is a problem with the coin. That's what World Athletics believed but didn't follow through on.

Here's one of Kipchoge's pacers as example:

https://twitter.com/jgault13/status/1580585989629947905

Itziger

What I find strange is, why just Kenya? If it's rife in Kenya, why not Ethiopia and Uganda as well. Or any country where doping could mean big financial rewards. The fact that 20 thousand pounds/dollars/euros is huge money for some nations' athletes and not so much for others tilts the debate too.

SuspectZero

Kipchoge is not remotely close to 46, thats just ridiculous lol. That would mean his marathon pace would be him running almost 8 and half 5k splits at the same pace as the M45 5000m WR pace. Yes, age cheating in Kenya has been a problem over the years but Kipchoge won a World 5000 title and ran 12:52 in his first full international season, getting a contract through age manipulation is pretty irrelevant at that stage. He might be slightly older, Kenyan birth records as most 3rd world countries can be pretty flaky but a 46 year old man running 2:01 I'd just ridiculous.

As for your point on the Kipchoge pacemaker busts, they were pacemakers for the sub-2 project(49 guys from all over the World and from different groups)and only one is in Sangs group which is Kacheran. They weren't his training pacemakers as you are saying, the other two were Rosa athletes(Alex Korio and Marius Kipserem) and were based in Iten, not Kaptagat where Kipchoge is based so that's not possible. Do you really think Rosa would be sending two of his best(absolute World Class but doped) athletes 50km to Kaptagat everyday to a rival group to be meat fodder for Kipchoge?

demfad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119952874#Comment_119952874

Kipchoge won his first World event as a Junior in 2003. To quote Zane Robertson in case you didn't read: "“There [sic] passport ages are all fake so they can cheat Jr’s and get contracts". Robertson said this in relation to Kipchoge.

A marathon runner's marathon pace being equivalent to the M45 WR is ridiculous (even if that record is extremely soft and set by an Italian way back in 2013.) The performances by recent athletes in winning majors were also ridiculously good. But they were busted for doping.

I was asked to supply evidence that Kipchoge was over 45. There won't be any more evidence than personal testimony of elite Kenyan based athletes who personally know him. You seem to have some knowledge of Iten and Eldoret. Have you actually heard testimony that confirms his age beyond your M45 record deduction?

Point taken re Rosa, but Kipchoge's strongest pacer a man who paced him day in day out inside the tight knit Sang camp was busted for doping. That is significant is it not? None of this of course means Kipchoge is doping. It just adds to the suspicion that doping in Kenya may be almost ubiquitous amongst the to elite. World Athletics recent actions would not seem to inspire confidence that this issue will go away.

babacool

if he is 46 I’m even more impressed. Means he holds not only the world record but also m2 and m3 record (m1 goes to bekele at this stage I assume?). That is great going.

have to admit, this thread is a great bedtime story. A lovely tale that any pirate couldn’t tell in a better/ more convincing way. 😁 can’t wait when the Kraken is introduced. Best part is: “I heard it they had dinner and during that dinner x said that and y said that!” That’s really hard evidence. Like “I heard someone saying he met someone who had seen the monster of Loch Ness!” Brilliant.

average_runner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119953192#Comment_119953192

You name one athlete going on about his age.

demfad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119952561#Comment_119952561

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119956808#Comment_119956808

(Two already named above in a direct reply to a similar question from you.) I'm not going to repeatedly answer the same question. If you are not satisfied with the answer then elaborate, give your reasons and Ill try to address.

demfad

UPDATE: The Athletics Integrity Unit has banned 2021 Boston marathon winner Diana Kipyokei for six years and her Boston result has been disqualified. (Edna Kiplagat is officially the 2021 Boston Marathon champion.)

-Sample was taken on October 11 2021 (day of marathon)

-Tested positive for "a metabolite of Triamcinolone acetonide" (Nov 4)

-There followed months of to-ing/fro-ing where she produced documentation with a doctor that was unsatisfactory and later proven falsified.

The AIU decision is worth a quick read. This case was not a leak in a systemic problem. If this case type is typical, and the problem is widespread then it's clear why so many Kenyan's are being caught and will be caught.

https://www.athleticsintegrity.org/downloads/pdfs/disciplinary-process/en/AIU-21-193-266-Kipyokei-Decision.pdf

Murph_D

The lack of sophistication is pretty stunning. Just making stuff up and hoping for the best, it seems.

demfad

Bigger UPDATE: FIVE MORE KENYANS BANNED (SIX TOTAL IN LAST 2 DAYS)

1: Ms Diana Chemtai Kipyokei (“the Athlete”) is a 28-year-old road runner from Kenya1

On 11 October 2021, the Athlete provided a urine Sample In-Competition at the ‘B.A.A. Boston Marathon’ held in Boston, USA, which was given code 158744V (the “Sample”). 6. On 4 November 2021, the World Anti-Doping Agency (“WADA”) accredited laboratory in Los Angeles, USA (the “Laboratory”) reported an Adverse Analytical Finding in the Sample based on the presence of a metabolite of Triamcinolone acetonide3 (the “Adverse Analytical Finding”). 

2: Ms Purity Cherotich Rionoripo (“the Athlete”) is a 29-year-old road runner from Kenya1

On 30 May 2022, the Athlete provided a urine Sample, Out-of-Competition in Eldoret, Kenya, which was given code 7077177 (the “Sample”). 6. On 23 June 2022, the World Anti-Doping Agency (“WADA”) accredited laboratory in Lausanne, Switzerland (the “Laboratory”) reported an Adverse Analytical Finding in the Sample for the presence of Furosemide (the “Adverse Analytical Finding”).

3: Ms Alice Jepkemboi Kimutai (“the Athlete”) is a 30-year-old road runner from Kenya1On 20 September 2022, the Athlete provided a urine Sample Out-of-Competition in Kaptagat, Kenya, which was given code 1087220 (the “Sample”). On 14 November 2022, the World Anti-Doping Agency (“WADA”) accredited laboratory in Lausanne, Switzerland (the “Laboratory”) reported an Adverse Analytical Finding in the Sample based on the presence of Testosterone and its Metabolites, Androsterone, Etiocholanolone, 5αandrostane-3α,17 diol (“5αAdiol”) and 5β-androstane-3α,17 diol (“5βAdiol”) consistent with exogenous origin (the “Adverse Analytical Finding”). 

4. Mr Maiyo Johnstone Kibet (“the Athlete”) is a 34-year-old road runner from Kenya On 29 May 2022, the Athlete provided a urine Sample In-Competition at the Kigali InternationalPeace Marathon in Kigali, Rwanda, which was given code 7013923 (the “Sample”). On 18 July 2022, the World Anti-Doping Agency (“WADA”) accredited laboratory in Bloemfontein, South Africa (the “Laboratory”) reported an Adverse Analytical Finding in the Sample based on the presence of recombinant erythropoietin (“EPO”) (the “Adverse Analytical

Finding”).

5: The Respondent, Mr Mark Otieno Odhiambo (the “Athlete” or “Mr Odhiambo”) is a 29-year-old athlete from Kenya.On 30 July 2021, the World Anti-Doping Agency (“WADA”) accredited laboratory in Tokyo, Japan (the “Tokyo Laboratory”) reported an Adverse Analytical Finding (“AAF”) in the Second Sample for the presence of Methasterone at an estimated concentration of 6 ng/mL and its Metabolites 2α,17α-dimethyl-5α-androstane3α,17β-diol (“Methasterone M1”) at an estimated concentration of 6ng/mL and 18- nor-17β-hydroxymethyl-17α-methyl-2α-methyl-5α-androst-13-en-3-one (“Methasterone M2”) at an estimated concentration of 0.5ng/mL (“the Second Sample AAF”). Methasterone (and its Metabolites) is a Prohibited Substance on the WADA 2021 

https://twitter.com/aiu_athletics/status/1605220447871766531?s=20&t=HUORt71q0UJ-7HI-95HRhQ

https://twitter.com/aiu_athletics/status/1605220449989820417?s=20&t=mRyaEm7aiNiHgoX2cqXgQw

https://twitter.com/aiu_athletics/status/1604823918719946752?s=20&t=mRyaEm7aiNiHgoX2cqXgQwhttps://twitter.com/aiu_athletics/status/1604823921605459970?s=20&t=mRyaEm7aiNiHgoX2cqXgQw

https://twitter.com/aiu_athletics/status/1605159849863819269?s=20&t=mRyaEm7aiNiHgoX2cqXgQw

https://twitter.com/aiu_athletics/status/1604823921605459970?s=20&t=mRyaEm7aiNiHgoX2cqXgQw

https://twitter.com/aiu_athletics/status/1605220548812111872?s=20&t=mRyaEm7aiNiHgoX2cqXgQw

rovers_runner

Purity Cherotich Rionoripo....

babacool

Did they discover the Loch Ness Monster yet? - just asking for a friend!

demfad

https://athleticsweekly.com/athletics-news/new-zealand-marathon-record-holder-zane-robertson-given-eight-year-ban-1039966311/

Just sticking the Zane Roberston ban as relevant on this thread: he is one of the twin fastest Mzungos in Iten (maybe 1 or two more fast ones).

Robertson extremely well connected in Iten particularly within the Asics camp.

While many will find his excuse hilarious Zane has done us all a service by exposing capitalisms plot to double our productivity via EPO injection under the guise of the Covid hoax. Thanks man!

More seriously one wonders what Robertson knows (quite a lot) and what he will do now (spill the whole can of beans?)?

“Drug Free Sport New Zealand (DFSNZ) alleged that Mr Robertson breached Rules 2.1 (Presence of a Prohibited Substance or its Metabolites or Markers in an Athlete’s sample) and 2.2 (Use or Attempted Use by an Athlete of a Prohibited Substance or Prohibited Method) of the Sports Anti-Doping Rules 2022 (SADR) as a result of an Adverse Analytical Finding (AAF) following his participation in the Great Race in Manchester in May 2022.

“DFSNZ also alleged the athlete subsequently breached Rule 2.5 (Tampering, or Attempted Tampering, with any part of Doping Control by an Athlete or Other Person).

“Mr Robertson is not contesting the breaches nor is he offering evidence to support a reduction in the period of ineligibility.”

“Mr Robertson accepted the presence of EPO but asserted that the prohibited substance had entered his system through no fault or negligence, or no significant fault or negligence, on his part, and therefore he wished to be heard regarding sanction.

“Mr Robertson filed evidence to support his assertion. Specifically, Mr Robertson claimed that he had attended a Kenyan medical facility seeking a Covid 19 vaccination but was instead treated for Covid 19, which included the administration of EPO. He also claimed that he had told the attending Doctor that he was an athlete and could not be treated with a substance that was on the prohibited list. His evidence was that he had not realised it was a second Doctor who administered the medication, so he did not repeat his request not to be treated with a prohibited substance.

“Mr Robertson supported his evidence with sworn affidavits from two Kenyan doctors, ‘hospital notes’, a ‘hospital report’ and a witness statement from a Kenyan detective corroborating his claims.

“DFSNZ responded to Mr Robertson’s evidence with expert evidence from Dr Stephen Ritchie who commented on the clinical implausibility of the medical treatment allegedly received by Mr Robertson. DFSNZ also provided a statement about investigations it had made following Mr Robertson’s assertions, and a witness statement from the Legal Officer at the Anti-doping Agency of Kenya (ADAK) who had made inquiries for DFSNZ into Mr Robertson’s claims.

“ADAK’s statement included an attached letter from the Vice President of the medical facility Mr Robertson claimed to have attended which stated that Mr Robertson was not administered EPO at the facility, that he had not attended the facility on the alleged date, that of the two doctors he claimed had treated him, one was a laboratory technician and the other was not employed at the facility, that the medical notes were not generated at the facility and the patient number on the notes was not Mr Robertson’s.

“DFSNZ alleged that Mr Robertson’s statements and supporting documents included falsified documents and false testimony which if proven or not contested, amounts to a breach of Rule 2.5 (tampering).”

average_runner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120387447#Comment_120387447

I am sure if Kenyan was as bad as people like to think it was, they would of ensure Zane wouldn't of fail a test. I doubt he has much on the kenyan's but will mouth off something for sure, but will come across as bitter now!!!

marathon2022

In less than 25 words

Man goes to different continent to train, gets caught cheating triggering the second round of the eagerly awaited Irish national straw clutching championship.

BeepBeep67

He has just given an interview on the NZ Runners Only pod.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/1PFFz2YqU73GPGu7kS4V8f?si=tYmOwSEOTnCi8wCJj6AYrA

DeepBlue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120390306#Comment_120390306

Good interview. Tbh it's hard not to feel a bit sorry for him. The pressure to succeed must be horrendous.

average_runner

Hate to be in that family house at xmas. Zane to his brother, I broke your national record, brother, yeah but you were drugged up!!

Where does it go from there!!

Once a cheat always a cheat

demfad

When asked how he got the EPO he blamed his ex-wife for bringing the EPO to him which he then brought to Kenya (she was busted 5 years ago).

That sounds incredibly unlikely. He also said he can't speak openly (apart from blaming the wife).

His first excuse was that cheating had made it impossible for clean athletes (like him implied) to compete, make ends meet etc.

The obvious next Q there is would he be willing to go whistleblower? Blaming his wife would suggest no...for now.

demfad

He held on to the EPO for 5 years and then moved it over the border to Kenya.

"threats on my life from the ongoing divorce...extortion and stuff...."  "it was pretty nasty...had to move to my farm in the mountains and hideout for months.."

So he must have brought the EPO up to the farm house too!

Doesn't EPO need refrigeration?

demfad

So more background.

Drugs Free NZ had been monitoring Robertson and the failed test was targeted. They had been working on teh ground on Kenya

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/131579095/how-drug-free-sport-nz-ensnared-kiwi-distance-runner-zane-robertson

Robertson lied about this in a second podcast, claiming the test was random.

I don't think Kenyan authorities, athletics and others, are too happy with Roberston's absolute BS stories, blaming everyone (including Kenya) but himself for his own choices. He may have overstepped a line.......

BeepBeep67

And another

"Botswana's Nijel Amos, an Olympic 800m silver medallist in 2012, has been banned for three years after testing positive for metabolites, the Athletics Integrity Unit (AIU) announced Wednesday."

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20230503-botswana-800m-specialist-amos-gets-3-year-ban-for-metabolites-use

Ceepo

And another one. This time Rhonex Kipruto.

It's gone way oast silly at this stage. Its getting increasingly difficult to have any faith in what we watch unfortunately.

https://www.espn.co.uk/espn/story/_/id/37667936/kenya-10km-world-record-holder-rhonex-kipruto-provisionally-suspended

skyblue46

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120607644#Comment_120607644

This is a big one, not just because he is a world record holder but also because it's based on his blood passport rather than on finding traces of a particular drug. It'll be a big deal if they make this charge stick.