F1 2023 thread

mickdw

In my opinion, if ricciardo does as he and his bosses would expect him to do, ie out qualify his team mate consistently and sneak the odd point out of a crap car, he will be in the red bull next year.

If you consider what redbull need in the 2nd car, I'm a little surprised he hasn't been put straight in.

They want someone to finish just behind max or win when max has a bad day.

Perez was somewhat doing that but has fallen off a cliff now.

Who else can they trust to do.thst job. Everyone they try don't seem to be up to it.

Ricciardo is the only team mate so far to be competitive with max and would surely do that job.

thefa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120844078#Comment_120844078

Think Red Bull are doing it the right way by trialing him in Alpha Tauir. They seem to be at little to no loss while Perez holds onto second, especially when Max could probably wrap up the championship on his own.

He’s a likeable guy but I honestly don’t think Ricciardo has earned a move straight back into Red Bull. Compared poorly to Norris last season. 17/18 Ricciardo you could easily argue was peak Ricciardo whereas 17/18 Verstappen was very raw and was the match of him at that stage.

Good to see him back on the grid with a chance to progress. Glad De Vries was given a go too. Decent cameo last year in a back marker but didn’t work out.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120844078#Comment_120844078

Ah, I agree with the first part that he should aim to beat his teammate and sneak a few points. But that wouldn't suggest pace that would put him close behind max, let alone able to beat max on occasion.

Unless he's on really good pace (hammering Tsunoda) I doubt he'd be close to max.

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120843439#Comment_120843439

According to the race podcast the other day, there was never a chance of the Williams seat for de Vries. Seems that the only shot for him was AT, and by all accounts this was a Helmut Marko solo run based on 1 race. Poor decision making from him.

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120844078#Comment_120844078

Red bull and perez seem to have some sponsorship links tied with Perez so maybe that's part of the consideration.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120845559#Comment_120845559

Yes. Perez brings loads of money from a Mexican billionaire named Carlos Slim. I've heard ad much as 20 or even 30 million dollars. But I don't pretend to know.

In any case, Perez brings considerable money to the contract discussion. It pays perez wages and then leave loads for the team.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120844078#Comment_120844078

Remember that at the time Ricciardo was competitive he was in his peak and Max was still a teenager learning the ropes. One of the reasons he left in 2018 was that Max was starting to establish dominance and he thought he could go be a team leader at Renault. Now he's 34, he's had some very rough seasons at McLaren when he was arguably one of the worst performers on the whole grid, while Max is now in his peak and driving at a level not seen in the sport since Schumacher.

I would be astonished if Ricciardo did any better than Perez over a season. Red Bull keep sacking drivers who go on to perform really well elsewhere while they try to find someone who can keep up with Max and it hasn't really achieved anything. They'd need to get their chequebooks out and go after Norris or Leclerc if they want someone who can genuinely get close.

De Vries really wasn't performing at all so there's no harm in dropping Daniel in and giving him an audition, but even if he knocks it out of the park and they promote him I just can't see it turning out any different to Sergio or Alex or Pierre.

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120846678#Comment_120846678

Do red Bull want anyone to challenge max within the team though?

I'd be sure Red bull would be happy with Perez finishing top 5 consistently but not being anywhere Max in races. So a few blips recently get sorted out in 2nd half of season and that's a big call to make re Perez v Danny Ric

dmakc

If this was a tight season (e.g. 2021) Perez would be out by now. It's a foregone conclusion season so he'll stay

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120847412#Comment_120847412

Probably not challenge, and to be fair only maybe Norris or Leclerc could in the same car right now.

RB probably do want a driver who is more consistent at least, Perez has not done well enough with the car he has. It is the class of the field, and he gets knocked out in Q1 for 5 races in a row.

PsychoPete

RedBull need a Bottas, he got a lot of stick but he was consistent. He got 58 podiums in 4 years that's what RedBull need. I don't think RB are that worried about someone challenging max as the constructors is the main win for the team so once they'd have two drivers consistently on the podium probably be happy

recyclebin

Perez has been very poor in qualifying the last few races but that doesn't really tell the whole story. He's still second in the championship with 19 points to spare. He has two wins, two second places and a third. Red Bull don't really need him to do much more, bar start qualifying better. If he qualifies better then he should be back on the podiums regularly again. They don't need a driver that will try and challenge Max. They just need someone to be best of the rest.

Ricciardo on the other hand was poor for two years, bar Italy, and then got sacked, so it's a bit early to be talking about him taking Perez seat. Ricciardo could easily flop at Alpha Tauri as the car won't be any better than the McLaren. It could be considerably more difficult to drive. Time will tell whether he still has it or not. It's last chance saloon either way.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120847501#Comment_120847501

I would say George Russell could challenge Max in the same car too.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120847735#Comment_120847735

Ricciardo on the other hand was poor for two years, bar Italy, and then got sacked, so it's a bit early to be talking about him taking Perez seat. Ricciardo could easily flop at Alpha Tauri as the car won't be any better than the McLaren. It could be considerably more difficult to drive. Time will tell whether he still has it or not. It's last chance saloon either way.

I think it will suit him better. Just a little over a week till we find out anyway.

thefa

The unsexy choices that could challenge max consistently in the same car are probably Alonso and Hamilton who both are having good seasons on top of all the experience. Norris is great at getting the best out of the McClaren over the last few years and has great quali pace. LeClerc and Russell have great pace but probably a bit more error prone and I’d argue their stock has fallen a bit recently.

Impressed by Piastri so far. Looking like he has the potential to be one of the best rookies of the last few years.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848195#Comment_120848195

Hamilton and Russell are pretty evenly matched. Hamilton is probably more consistent than Russell.

Hard to argue that Russell would challenge max without alos concluding Hamilton would do the same

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848452#Comment_120848452

Piastri had a terrible first part of the season. That's fair enough for a rookie but all you can really say is he's been good in the last few races.

The car was poor and has improved. But noris was the only one able to get a good result for most of the first half of the season.

Not to take from his good recent form. He's a rookie so he's on a good trajectory in the last few races, but that's as much as we can really say about him for now.

PsychoPete

Saying Piastri had a terrible start to the season is very harsh, he hasn't been that far off Norris if you look through the results. Norris has more points but he's been finishing low in the points until he got the upgrades in Austria which Piastri didn't have but he got of the upgrades for Silverstone and had plenty of pace

Schorpio

I think people criticizing rookies in general is very harsh. Rookies these days get so little time in the cars prior to the first race.

Piastri only had the pre-season test, and (from all of 10 seconds googling) it looks like he got 126 laps in.

By contrast to ye olden days, Hamilton did 1,011 laps in the 2007 McLaren before the opening weekend of the season.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120850104#Comment_120850104

Yeah it's completely different these days and rookies definitely need to be given time to acclimatise.

There is a distinction with de Vries though as he's actually a lot older and more experienced than his teammate, with plenty of seasons in other racing series behind him, and he's shown no signs of improvement as the season has gone on in the way Piastri has.

Brief_Lives

is logan sargeant goosed aswell? or as the only yank, is he untouchable?

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120852072#Comment_120852072

I wouldn't have thought so. He's definitely not been brilliant, but looks to have a higher ceiling than de Vries did. The fact he's America helps too. Can easily see him getting a second year, but he'd have to start performing in year 2 alright...

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120852072#Comment_120852072

It's not all about driving at Williams. They have had at least 1 pay driver at the team over the last few years. Russell brought a reduction in engine costs (not as much as you'd think as I recall) and they had kubica and Latifi as pay drivers too. I don't know what Sargent brings specifically but his status as American almost certainly brings American sponsorship.

Unless the Williams owners are willing to put in a lot of money, the second seat will go to one pay drive or another. Sargent might well get another year.

Jordan 199

It's race week! Hungaroring coming up.

Really looking forward to the Hungarian GP to see if McLaren are really in the mix of the best of the rest the teams of Mercedes, Ferrari and Aston Martin.

dulpit

Goatifi life update. Fair play to him...

https://twitter.com/NicholasLatifi/status/1681332676026826752?t=Cen4YEqEickNWKVbvG201A&s=19

Dohnjoe

All this hype for Danny Ric. If he starts to struggle out the gate in that slow AT car, it'll be a slippery slope.

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120867781#Comment_120867781

Yeah, I don’t expect miracles because the AT is poor, but he should be looking to beat Yuki in fairly short order. If he can consistently do that, he has an outside chance of the second seat at RB next year if Perez continues to underperform.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120867781#Comment_120867781

Well it just shows how big a name he still is yet people were saying g he was finished.

He seems to have made the right choices after leaving mclaren. He was faced with a back marker drive or nothing.

He took the redbull reserve role and now within a few months is back on the grid (in a back marker) BUT is in the conversation relating to the 2nd seat at redbull.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120868106#Comment_120868106

Yeah fair point that he's in the conversation for the Red Bull deat. I doubt he had many choices to make though. Was he actually offered any drives for this year?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120868106#Comment_120868106

I have a strange feeling we're going to see Checo and Danny go hell for leather this weekend, should be fun to watch

artanevilla

I think Yuki is pretty quick so it wouldn't be a failure if he didn't beat Ricciardo the weekend.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120868145#Comment_120868145

He could have been in the Haas if he took a realistic salary.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120868153#Comment_120868153

Checo will be praying for a better run. Imagine if he had to start from the back for any reason and be dicing with Ricciardo. The click bait websites would be in overdrive.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120868388#Comment_120868388

Fair one. I wonder if his decisions were by necessity or design. I wonder of he turned down the Haas with low wages, hoping for a better seat. In the end he was offered a reserve seat with probably lower wages.

If he played the odds and it's given him this opportunity then fair play to him. Savvy.

mickdw

According to

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120868657#Comment_120868657

According to Guenther Steiner, he wanted '10 f u cking million'

Frank Bullitt

All he has to do with beat Tsunoda, high ask but from the sounds of his test at RB he was on the pace within 7 laps.

There is also the mentality of just being back in F1 again that he can take with him. I really would like to see him do well this time, he deserves it.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120869026#Comment_120869026

Ya i read that he did good time after just 7 laps.

Initially I had not been too impressed as anyone should be able to get a good lap out of it if allowed to do lap after lap after lap with no pressure but to immediately get it on the pace is excellent to be fair.

Jordan 199

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recyclebin

Silly season has started over who has breached the budget cap for 2022. Rumours of 3 teams. Domenicali is calling for sporting penalties instead of fines.

I think it's a bit rich calling for sporting penalties so late in the day when they set the precedent last year for Red Bull.

The penalties should be made clear before the season starts so everyone knows where they stand. Otherwise teams will chance there arm and can use the Red Bull penalty as reference in there defence.

dulpit

If anybody has exceeded the cost cap then they need to be punished, and the punishment should be far more severe than any benefit they would have gained with the overspend. So if they spent 100k over, and that might pay for a wing or something, they need to get a fair degree higher sort of punishment, otherwise they will keep doing it. And fines are pointless, the big guys can absorb that anyway

Breaching cost cap should lead to point reductions and/or race bans

Charlie-Bravo

Here' s a suggestion as a penalty, for whatever the percentage overpend, should be a percentage reduction in points at the end of the season (or even following season). So spend 100% more than the cap, lose 100% of the constructor's points. Drivers points not affected.

muckwarrior

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120871046#Comment_120871046

That sounds like a good idea, except it would need to apply to both championships. The driver's championship carries more prestige than the constructor's, so they'd need to avoid the possibility of a team sacrificing one for the other.

Frank Bullitt

There is talk of some teams putting the R&D budget towards hypercar development to circumvent the F1 budget. That sort of narrows down the possible teams on that one.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120871599#Comment_120871599

That is the only reasons the hypercars exist and to be honest, I don't see how that can be policed to standard that would hold up in law.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120872470#Comment_120872470

This was always going to be a problem with the rules. And there is likely to be a crossover between some teams doing nefarious things and other teams simply branching out in order to avoid being forced into staff redundancies, which will be very hard to differentiate.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120870078#Comment_120870078

You are aware Red Bull were hit with a pretty draconian sporting penalty last year and not just a fine? They have heavily limited wind tunnel access because of it which is hurting their development progress and will certainly have a big impact on next year's car.

It's hard for the penalties to be clear cut really as each case is different - you have cases like Red Bull last year where the FIA admitted that the team acted entirely in good faith, they gained no performance advantage, and were simply victims to a different interpretation of some vaguely written rules which everyone now knows about for this year, or you may have cases where teams have genuinely broken budget to gain an unfair advantage, through using road car programs as a trojan horse or whatever.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

On a lighter note KMag had a baby this week which is give or take 9 months since his maiden pole at Interlagos last November. His best professional achievement leading to a major personal milestone. Not a bad way to celebrate it!

recyclebin

The podium in Australia for McLaren was up there for his Motorsport achievements. I think it was McLaren's last podium before there was a big gap when they switched to Honda engines.