F1 2023 thread

dulpit

The king is dead, long live the king.

Only 102 days to lights out for 2023..

artanevilla

Danny Ric confirmed reserve at RB for 2023.

Charlie-Bravo

RB's "Third Driver"... Maybe they'll field a third car next year 🤣 I think Checo will begin looking for another drive. Can't imagine him hanging around when it's Team RB-Max.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119911230#Comment_119911230

He won't get a better seat though. Is there even a better seat than 2nd RB driver? Remember this is a guy who was out of F1 if RB didnt sign him.

Perez is a good 2 , upper middle of the pack probably but I'd rate him behind Russell, behind Max obv, behind the likes of leclerc, alonso, gasly et al. He's doing a job in the Bottas role. Be a good boy and race well but don't challenge the clear number 1. It was the same with Irvine and Barrichello when MSC was at ferrari. You can't have 2 top class drivers in one team if you aren't the best car by a mile as you'll take points off each other.

artanevilla

Perez know's which side of his bread is buttered.

dulpit

Clever from Red Bull I think. They now have a year to see if Danny Ric is washed or if he's just had a run of cars that didn't suit. And in the meantime you'd imagine it'll put the frighteners on Checo to ensure he plays ball, because it would look like they could replace him with Ricciardo in 2024 if he goes rogue...

Charlie-Bravo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119912182#Comment_119912182

Yes, I'm loving this. Expecting sparks to fly in RB. The first few races should be fun to see how this plays out in 2023!!

PsychoPete

There's one thing Checo won't do and that's rock the boat, Marko won't let him and probably demote him to Alpha Tauri like he did with Gasly when he got too big for his boots. Checo is the 5th or 6th best driver on the grind, he's good for a podium and the odd win but lacks the ability to turn up the pace when he needs too like Verstappen or Hamilton and the qualifying pace can be hit or miss. He has the cop on to play the team game and take his chances when he gets them. Assuming RB,Merc and Ferrari will be on the pace next season, Checo might not have it easy

thefa

Is there something in the characteristics of the car that would suggest a Red Bull would lead to better performance out of Ricciardo?

I saw a video on how the RB’s development over this season’s became more “pointy” and as a result more suited to Max’s driving than Perez.

Also read how this season’s McClaren suited neither Norris or Ricciardo but Norris was more adaptable.

shanec1928

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119913114#Comment_119913114

They also have one of the most recognisable drivers on the grid who’s got a bit of a cult following. Easy marketing material for them. A win win

Oafley Jones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119920998#Comment_119920998

Isn't this the real role DR has in Red bull next year. Essentially a driver for promos, marketing etc. Liam Lawson is the actual third driver in the team.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

I don't think Danny Ric will ever take Checo's spot. I don't think DR's ego/competitiveness would ever allow him to play the no. 2 role as graciously as Checo.. And he's certainly not going to win a WDC so I don't see RB taking him over Checo anytime soon.. The way I see it, they either get a contender for the second car or a clear no.2. Getting someone in the middle just doesn't make sense, it would hamper the team.

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119921038#Comment_119921038

I heard that he's listed as Alpha Tauri's reserve driver?

This is it

More chatter of Binotto hitting the road

AMKC

So there was/is some rumours of Charles Leclerc talking to Mercedes.

Tota Wolf is saying he does not see their car being at the front much next year.

So if it goes like that here is what I see happening. Lewis will retire, Charles will move to Mercedes if Ferrari continues to mess up next year and Sergio will go to Ferrari while Daniel Ricciardo will take up the 2nd seat at Red Bull.

flazio

I really can't picture a scenario where Danny Ric will willingly play second fiddle to Max the way Checo did. Doesn't matter if it's that or out of F1, Danny would take out.

This is it

Can't see Mercedes wanting two drivers battling it out long term and there's no way Charles or George will play 2nd fiddle at this stage. Both are far too good for that.

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119921300#Comment_119921300

I disagree. They did it with Hamilton & Rosberg, and I seem to remember Toto saying that they give their drivers every chance of racing each other. We saw it with George v Lewis in Brazil sure.

This is it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119921457#Comment_119921457

We did see it at times this year, but my view is that they won't want that long term, they'll want what they had with Bottas and what RB have with Perez

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119921953#Comment_119921953

This is said every year, but Mercedes have always allowed their drivers to be competitive. Bottas wasn't signed to be a number 2, he was signed after showing a lot of promise at Williams after he completely bypassed F2. That's how talented he was.

He eventually fell into that role but that wasn't what it was supposed to be.

Ghost Train

https://www.rte.ie/sport/motorsport/2022/1125/1338344-binotto-quits-as-boss-of-ferrariJesus Faithful Stagecoachteam/

Will be interesting to see if they bounce back next year or go down hill a bit more.

flazio

I think RTE might have added 2+1 to get 4. Not quite at 2+2 yet.

No sign of the BBC or Sky Sports reporting he's definitely gone.

Ghost Train

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119924841#Comment_119924841

Yes, its just one Italian newspaper saying it, so more a strong rumour

Jordan 199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119924856#Comment_119924856

My half Italian nephew said to me: Uncle-a Jordan, Binotto is-a outta the door-a 😉

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

I don't really think parallels can be drawn between Mercedes in 2013 and Mercedes now. They were in a very different position.

Also, Bottas may not have been signed initially to be a no. 2 driver (personally I think he was), but he was signed to be a no. 2 driver on 3 further occasions.. It was evident fairly early on he wasn't a WDC contender. Mercedes clearly wanted a no. 2 driver for those seasons.

But fwiw I think teams take a clear no. 2 if they have a generational driver (Schumi, Vettel, Hamilton, Verstappen). I don't think they'd have any issue taking on competition for Russell. But I'd be wary of joining Ferrari if I was Leclerc. As Horner said early in the season, it's better to have a fast car with issues than have a reliable car that's slow. If Ferrari get their sh.t together (big if) they could challenge RB next year. I think the gap from Mercedes to RB won't be overcome next year anyway.

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119921953#Comment_119921953

If I remember correctly they commented that the Hamliton Rosberg title season was bad for the team.

Merc did let George and Lewis race this year, but they were racing for nothing. If either one was in spitting distance of the title, and were clear of the team mate, I'd expect them to be given the preference. If they were only battling each other, I'd expect them to be allowed to race.

Max was clear of Checo this season not because Checo played second fiddle to him, but because Max was much better. Same as Bottas playing second fiddle to Lewis, it was generally clear that Lewis was way ahead of him. I' sure we can find instances of the 'no.2' being asked to move over, but I don't think we will find many 'pull over on the back straight to give him the points' scenarios - most of the time it is just getting the faster driver ahead.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119931740#Comment_119931740

Oh it depends on how you measure good and bad. It got far more global free advertising and column inches than Hamilton's easy championship in some of those dominant years.

I think it was a good problem to have - two drivers fighting for the championship. I'd say they'd be happier to have that kind of problem than being as far off the pace as they were for the first half of this season.

Bottas wasn't an obvious no.2 in practice. Everyone knew he was no.2 in reality but he obviously didn't have it written in his contract. He was decent but not top tier. Similar to Perez. The most surprising thing about the controversy with Max was that perez was surprised. I thought it was obvious that he was there to support max but Perez clearly didn't see it that way - so I conclude it's not in his contract.

Both Bottas and Perez were very well chosen because they're fast but not so fast as to make a battle with the main driver. And that's fine if you have the best car and can reasonably compete for the championship with the main driver.

I'd say Mercedes don't have that luxury at the moment so they'll be happy to just have 2 competitive drivers.

Burkie1203

Binotto gone

dulpit

Official:

https://twitter.com/wearetherace/status/1597512262557876225%20

Debub

some of the experts here can maybe confirm this - I read somewhere that the cars need to have a 15mm higher ground clearance at the rear (a regulation change for 2023) and, more importantly, this has been done specifically because of Mercedes complaining about the porpoising issue in 2022 and how it is bad for the health of the drivers - repotedly quite a few of the teams are unhappy about this (the teams that did not have porpoising as an issue)

klose

You would have to imagine Leclercs sooner rather than later contract renewal has soemthing to do with binotto "resigning" he's been more often than not very vocal about his displeasure at the calls etc made over the radio this season.

Larbre34

Ferrari have a major problem with their management structure.

As it stands, the day-to-day Principal of the Scuderia and the guy sitting o21n the F1 pitwall, is also the head of Gestione Sportiva (all Ferrari racing efforts) and a member of the Ferrari S.p.A board. Until today that was Mattia.

Its worth remembering that Ferrari also has a massive GT and customer racing programme, works as an engine supplier and as of 2023 will run a full WEC/Le Mans Hypercar programme with the new 499P, which for my money will be every bit as tough as an F1 season, given the amount of competition which will be joining them from Porsche, Peugeot, BMW, Cadillac, Honda etc and the very restricted rules.

Ferrari needs the Sporting Director to sit at board level, with a separate executive manager responsible for each of the strands of racing I mentioned above, especially the F1 team, where the Team Principal has no other job than to oversee the development and operations of the Scuderia.

That model can be seen in other teams. Christian Horner runs Red Bull Advanced Technologies, which manages the RBR effort, but Horner has no seat on the RB board, but answers to a joint CEO called Mintzlaff, just as he did to the late Dietrich Mateschitz.

McLaren has Andreas Seidel as Team Principal. He in turn reports to Zak Brown as CEO of McLaren Racing and then Brown sits on the board of McLaren Group.

The separation of duties and reporting lines is clear and necessary and Ferrari don't have that. They should get a new sporting director to wear the Fendi suits and get Guenther Steiner in to run the F1 team at ground level, as Principal.

flazio

Hang on, in the same way that Jean Todt used to answer to Luca Di Montezemelo in the Schumacher days, didn't Binotto answer to John Elkman?

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119936402#Comment_119936402

Of course he did, as Elkman is CEO of Ferrari S.p.A.

But both Ferrari S.p.A. and its sporting division are massively bigger now than they were in the days of Jean Todt. (600% more road cars produced now)

Having the guy on the pitwall and who pushes operations on the factory floor of 4 distinct racing efforts, being the same guy who sits on the Board, in an organisation the size of Ferrari, is mental.

ricimaki

https://twitter.com/jcccomentador/status/1598302592832270337

He's a very well respected journalist in the F1 paddock, saying that the Chinese GP will be replaced with Portimao.

Whilst the Chinese GP hasn't been officially cancelled, it's next to impossible seeing it go ahead with the countries zero covid policy. If it was cancelled, there would be 4 week off just as the season is getting going in April. Makes sense that F1 would want to fill that gap.

AMKC

I see the FIA have officially cancelled the Chinese GP for next year due to the Covid situation there. So down to 23 races for next year unless they decide to go somewhere else for that weekend instead.

Frank Bullitt

The writing was kinda on the wall for China even before this announcement. Could be a few years before F1 goes back there.

PsychoPete

Get rid of China and bring back Germany

flazio

Patrick Tambay Rest in peace.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/63851584

El_Duderino 09

https://youtu.be/AdVYetP7slA

Interesting ranking of the teams in terms of driver pairing for next year. Ranked by The-Race journalists.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Mercedes easily have the best line-up followed by Ferrari. Hamilton and Verstappen are streets ahead of whoever people have at no.3, and Russell is obviously far superior to Checo.

Alpine vs McLaren line-up is very close imo. I'd definitely have the Alpine line-up right now though considering McLaren have a rookie. I think the Haas ranking generous but those rankings are a waste of time anyway.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119955966#Comment_119955966

Ah, they're a bit more interesting than that. It's actual racing journalists rather than the public and they give decent reasoning for their opinions.

Mclaren having a rookie makes them a bit unknown. But Norris is excellent and he'd fit in at any of the top teams. I'd rate him better than perez and Sainz. Up there with Russell, Leclerc and Hamilton last year.

I think Aponso will make a fool of Stroll next year. Now Vettel is gone, people won't need to pretend he's a good driver to make vettel look decebt by comparison. I think he'll be really shown up next year.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119956004#Comment_119956004

I know but what's the point of saying x is better than y? Especially when it comes down to the drivers from 7th/8th to 17th/18th. It all comes down to opinion and from my experience the "experts" are liable to have just as stupid and biased opinions as anyone else. It's clickbait stuff and they tell us very little.

Not sure about Alonso. The team did a great job of not allowing Vettel to embarrass Stroll and I'm putting my biggest tin-foil hat on and saying that that was deliberate. Vettel got screwed in strategy this past season whereas Stroll always seemed to be well looked after.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119956071#Comment_119956071

You think AM deliberately slowed Vettel down? That's silly. I wo der of you think they have a spin button to make Veteran lose control of the car from time to time. Why get an excellent driver like alonso, pay him a fortune and then slow him down? Silly stuff.

I don't see much to disagree with in the ranking. The reasoning is pretty sound. There's wiggle room as there always is with opi ions, but I thought it was a pretty well reasoned opinion.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119956144#Comment_119956144

As I said, I'm going full tin-foil hat on that. At the very minimum they were often on different strats and Stroll invariably had the better one.

Doesn't stop it from being clickbait nonsense though.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119956165#Comment_119956165

Ah yeah but are you eing ironic saying they did it deliberately or do you really think they did it?

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119956204#Comment_119956204

Ah ya, probably being ironic. I wouldn't be a man to believe in conspiracy theories in general but Vettel just seemed to have awful luck, a bit like Mick.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119956266#Comment_119956266

Vettel was slower than expected and spun more than expected, which follows a long pattern for him since 2018. No conspiracy theory needed to explain it.

recyclebin

Juventus managing director Maurizio Arrivabene has resigned along with the rest of the board! A lot of financial irregularities could see Juventus relegated.

Thought he did okay while at Ferrari but can't remember if he was involved in the dodgy fuel flow and secret deal with the FIA too?

Hijpo

Think he was replaced by Binotto as team principal in January 2019, the F1 season starts in March. Didn't really cut the mustard at ferrari while he was there.

AMKC

Williams have a sale on if anyone is interested and they have an extra 20 per cent off the 50 per cent for today only too,

https://store.williamsf1.com/en-ie