World Cup 2022 - Team and Match Discussion

rob316

Ronaldo is one of the best goal scorers ever but has never had the ability and talent Messi had. I really don't think he's in the ultimate conversation though, if we are talking generational players that is Messi, maradona, Pele, cryuff. Messi throughout his career and this tournament has done things you can't believe.

That is testament to Ronaldo's drive though to win so many ballon dors in the same era as Messi.

billyhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120016089#Comment_120016089

Messi is a different type of player to Ronaldo. With that low center of gravity Messi is a better dribbler with great balance and poise. He's more of a team player too. Ronaldo has a better shot and is more physical. Some leap on him in the air. I much prefer Messi. He would be harder to mark.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120016048#Comment_120016048

Well played!

billyhead

It's just aswell for Argentina's sake that France were missing the likes of Benzema, Hernandez, Kimpembe, Kante and Pogba otherwise I think France would have won that game yesterday over 90 mins.

The_Kew_Tour

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120013634#Comment_120013634

Maradona is still the GOAT to many.

Was on far worse teams than Messi too.

Just lucky to have seen these talents in our lifetime.

Benimar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120017343#Comment_120017343

Agree re: Maradona.

I think the WC put to bed the Messi or Ronaldo discussion, and the debate (as it always should have been anyway imo) is now Maradona or Messi. Still Maradona for me, but it’s close.

The_Kew_Tour

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120018119#Comment_120018119

From a international point of view its not fair to compare Ronaldo and Messi anyway, as Argentina is 5 times bigger than Portugal. Ronaldo won a Euros with Portugal and semi finals in World Cup so that's still extremely impressive.

Just to be alive to see these players waa a joy. Next batch will have big shoes to fill.

adaminho

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/992576/soccer-fan-spotted-in-dublin-jersey-at-world-cup-is-proud-limerick-man.html

Some context to that Dublin jersey.

NIMAN

I hate how stories like that become 'news'.

A GAA Jersey at wc final. Big deal.

Osmosis Jones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120018383#Comment_120018383

I mean it's not like it's front page stuff it's just a fun story in the limerick leader

Bluebb993

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120013146#Comment_120013146

He did get a card

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120018528#Comment_120018528

Yeah but that doesn’t fit the narrative of Argentina getting away with murder

The_Kew_Tour

The penalty they got v Poland was soft but other than that rest were penos.

They got slammed for their antics v Holland but it later turned out that it was the Dutch who were acting the maggot during penalty shootout.

The French media calling Argentina cheats is also bit too funny.

ShamoBuc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120018773#Comment_120018773

To be fair, the ref was literally looking straight at him when he threw the ball away over to the side of the penalty area..... Ref did nothing....... French player fetches the ball and duly misses.....next French penalty, more antics, ...... the ref Then books him.

The ref should have booked him the first time - he didn't.

And I'm glad Argentina won - no narrative, just a simple fact.

The Golden Miller

Posted this on wrong thread. Messi got his world cup but again could of went either way, gave up leads twice. Messi played technically very well for the whole game, but when France pulled them back his response as a leader did nothing to change my mind on him in that regard. Argentina composed themselves well in extra time, and it was a team effort, and Messi contributed and got the goal, as I said his technical ability shone.

But had the penalty shootout gone the other way, he would be rightfully criticised for not leading the charge to counter the pressure they came under, growing in stature and forcing his presence on the game. It's in those sort of moments, in combative gung ho fashion, Maradona rose to the occasion and took the fight to the opposition by himself. He grew taller, and the bigger the occasion and more pressure his team came under, Maradona got better. That was the mark of his greatness. He could force his will on a game.

When comparing them, you'd say Messi was slightly the better dribbler and goalscorer, Maradona the better playmaker and passer. But your splitting hairs either way. They are eerily similar in their attributes. But when it comes to presence, character and leadership, taking hold of a game, Maradona is miles ahead. And for many that will always separate them.

Maradona was the small kid, with a huge heart, that he wore on his sleeve, and it showed. They're both the two greatest with Cruyff, but Maradona carried that something extra special imo

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120015836#Comment_120015836

Ronaldo should be in a debate with the great goalscorers, not one with Messi, Maradona, Cruyff and the truely great all rounded players who were the fulcrum of their teams in the centre.

He was a goalscoring outlet who relied on others to create, the true greats were the creators, goal scorers, playmakers, who had that all round ability.

I don't see how someone who was so limited in so many technical facets of the game can be in the conversation, no matter how many goals they scored. The same way Gerd Muller isn't in the conversation, when we're discussing the very greatest in the game.

But as others have said, it's positive that the conversation will now move to Messi v Maradona. But I'll never understand why Cruyff gets relegated to a level just outside this. He's up there with those two, they are the 3 true greats

Did you smash it

I don’t know people mean when they say maradona is better than Messi. Like if they were magically transported to a pitch where they were both in their prime and playing against each other that maradona would outperform Messi? Or what do they mean?

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120019309#Comment_120019309

They are similar in playing ability, but Maradona carried a presence and pensonality that could elevate the most average side to greatness. Carry them on his back and take the game to the opposition single handedly, a towering presence who could nearly will his team over the line. Messi doesn't carry this presence or leadership

WesternZulu

I think ability wise Maradona and Messi are probably inseparable.

However, Messi has performed to such a high standard way longer that Maradona ever had. For that reason alone I believe he is the better player.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120019452#Comment_120019452

Maradona performed to an elite level for nearly 20 years, despite lacking the science and conditioning of today, and drug abuse, that was how talented he was. Unheard of then, and to achieve what he did was phenomenal. Miracle level stuff

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120019612#Comment_120019612

20 years is a major stretch. Would say more like 10, from Boca till the end of his time at Napoli and his drug ban from football… maybe a hair earlier to include some of his latter Argentinos time, but that’s tougher to argue as elite.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120019700#Comment_120019700

In fairness to maradona he won South American player of the year in 1995. I don’t know the story behind that but I’d like to hear it.

20 years is still a stretch

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120019717#Comment_120019717

I suppose it depends on what we’re calling ‘elite’. Would we say Alvarez was elite winning the same award in 2021? I’d have said Elite meant playing exceptionally well, at the very top level.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120019717#Comment_120019717

I’m surprised myself. His senior career was 21 years. Debatable how much was at the top level, but that’s still pretty impressive given his problems.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120019744#Comment_120019744

Actually I’m wrong, he came second in 1995 to Enzo Francesoli

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120019700#Comment_120019700

I said nearly. I suppose I'm talking 77-92. 15 years then, with patches of greatness afterwards. Without the science and conditioning of today, and drug abuse, the longevity argument can't be used against him is my point

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120019744#Comment_120019744

Answer= genius.

He didn't even need his pace to run a game from the centre, passing and dictating the tempo of a game with his eyes closed. Spreading the ball and playmaking at will. Unheard off. Could of stood in the centre and did the same at 44

martyos121

Everyone is always very quick to use Maradona’s drink and drug habits to highlight his talent in playing so well despite it. Nobody ever mentions the fact that he wasn’t even close to being the only footballer heavily abusing one or both, and the fact that he was coming up against these players regularly.

Maradona was before my time so I can’t comment too much on his ability, but I can’t actually fathom someone better at football than Messi, and he’s been at that high level for such a long time now. By all accounts, Maradona didn’t quite match his longevity.

It doesn’t matter a jot who’s actually “the GOAT” though. It’s always going to be subjective.

It absolutely is not Cristiano Ronaldo though, there just isn’t an argument to be made for him anymore.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020179#Comment_120020179

How many Italian defenders, pure hatchet men in the 80s, with 5 man defences, were on drugs? And these were the greatest defenders we've seen. Against a man in a subpar team, effectively playing with a medicine ball. On mud pitches where nothing favoured the attacker! Could Messi do it, I'd genuinely have my doubts. Yes, THATS how good Diego was!

The little man with the big heart. A giant amongst mere mortals. Cometh the hour, cometh the man! Your nation needs you, enter Maradona!

Bleating Lamb

I think something that needs to be taken into account when comparing Maradona to Messi is the state of the pitches in Maradona's day.To see his close control on pitches that amounted to cabbage patches was astounding.Another player with incredible close control on those type of pitches was Best.

Apart from maybe the first few years of his career Messi has enjoyed the advantage of playing on virtual carpets in comparison to the pitches Maradona played on.

Another huge hindrance to Maradona and likes of Best for that matter was fact they got kicked up and down pitches by brute defenders from one end of the Season to the other.