Are there bad employees ?

okiss

I was chatting to a business owner I know recently. They have a staff member who recently kicked off and threatened to go to X about something that happened. This was totally blown out of proportion. The same person has made numerous mistakes. They also have Y working with him for years. Y works nice hours, gets paid overtime ect. Then Y has been heard complaining that if they got a better offer they be gone. The business owner I know has told me that some staff just want a wage but will do as little as possible and whine when asked to do paid overtime but expect hours off at the drop of a hat. They have had to manage a few people out of the business because they caused nothing but problems.

Another friend of mine has taken on a management role in a company in the past 12 months. The business they work for are expanding at the moment. They told me that it is so hard to get good staff. A lot of people they know are saying the same and also that it's hard to retain good staff.

I have a friend who is currently in job. They have done a lot for their manager over the past few years. Due to personal circumstances my friend has stayed put in the job. Their manager has been quite happy to fob more of their jobs onto my friend and another co worker. My friend has decided in the new year to look for a new job. They said I had enough of doing more. My boss has no bit of given in them. They haven't even offered me and my co worker an hour off this past year despite us carrying the place between sickness, holidays and staff shortages.

I have worked in places that have good and bad staff. I have had good managers who can cut staff a bit of slack when they know that person is dealing with things outside work. A short while later that worker is back to their normal good worker status. I had managers who got places because of who they knew or because they were in the company X period of time. They have no management experience or don't ask for extra training to become a good manager.

The one thing I would say is that if you have someone who is doing the bare minimum get them aside and let them know what's expected. If they are not willing to ask for help, show interest ect I would look at managing them out. It shows that your not willing to let your other staff carry them. Also be aware that people have lives outside work and can't change their lives always to accommodate their job.

I never understood why people are so obsessed with the 10% who are not doing what they are supposed to do, what about concentrating on the 90% who are doing their job, the 10% who aren't doing their job tend to be unhappy and other staff tends to have little to do with them, say thanks for anything they do and then leave it at that.

An amount of the 10% think they are getting one over on management or something like that by not working, so by not engaging with them and thanking them for any work you will confuse them.

It's not laziness very few absolutely lazy people, its unhappiness in their job, feeling trapped by their job, chip-on-shoulder-type personality, to its depression or personality disorder, or some other mental health issue.

As you like all that management theory stuff, use it to mentor staff interested in their job.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119828548#Comment_119828548

Hi,

Yes, talked at length to the whole team, then the smaller one to one session. Had a full engagement workshops, brought in new ways of looking at projects etc.

Did even speak to the 10% group to ask if they not happy, what else would they like to do, made changes based on these etc. Still nothing, things might change for 1-2 months but then the old pattern emerges.

To note, I would go above and beyond to celebrate the hard workers, extra days off, TOIL, etc. I was actually asked by one of the harder workers in a 1-1 meeting to stop thanking her so much as others were getting annoyed at it.

I was also given a formal complaint by one of the 10% for " unfair treatment for obviously preferential staff members" after he complained that I gave a day off to one staff member who was constantly going above and beyond, so HR asked me to give no more days off.

How are you giving random extra time off to staff in a semi-state? They tend to be unionised and very formal about work benefits, what do you want to do? You appeared to have tried everything and it hasn't worked. The next step is to start some sort of disciplinary approach would HR be happy with you doing that? and more importantly, would your manager be happy for you to do that?

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119829851#Comment_119829851

Are ya having a laugh, very few lazy people my eye.

They are everywhere and the worst thing is they get away with it.

Cuddlesworth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119825171#Comment_119825171

Peter principal.

It can happen to anybody I guess. You get promoted to a "new" role, or take a new job, etc. Find yourself out of your depth and everything grinds to a halt until termination/redundancy.

If I was a manager and take this with a grain of salt because I am not a people person, I would try to find the job/workload that they can do effectively. This can depend on the person. Some might actually enjoy the very boring repetitive work that others despise, simply because its something that can do without thinking or having to worry about. Others might be just more social orientated, which would explain why they are both bad at their job but liked by their peers. I might get some hate saying this, but I have found those people are better off in project management roles, where its more about maintaining relationships between people then really "getting work done themselves".

But just straight up trying to get them to do their current job, when they won't or can't seems counterproductive. In private companies, larger ones at least, you put those staff to the side and use them as leverage to get the better staff promotions, pay rises and so on. Then when the redundancies come round, their names are at the top of the list and your better staff are left standing.

barneygumble99

You can please some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time. I also work in a semi state company which is full of people who arse licked their way to the top. They didn’t have to work hard 40% of the time, they just needed to grease those cheeks, laugh at every single dumb joke and show an interest in their managers mundane life and their children’s mundane social lives. A company where the work is physical but you need to ‘work’ smarter not harder. I personally work hard and I’m a bit of a perfectionist but because I don’t grease holes and join in the conversation when the regional manager calls once a month, he can’t be bothered saying hello or asking how you’re getting on or saying well done on the regular high figures. I don’t give a fluck though because it’s more important to me to know I gave 100% when I was able to. My point basically is that no matter what you do there will always be employees who are useless but some people know how to hide it, yours don’t.

Strumms

The only way to deal with a person who is a bad employee is by allowing them to fail.

Not setting them up to fail….but allowing them to fail

i learned this the hard way… i and others ended up in a situation where we were were made babysit an individual, he was 60ish, just not keeping up with the changing dynamic of the workplace, newer more technologically advanced and efficient and accurate ways to do our jobs, new computer programs, smartphones and a PDA… couldn’t get his head around any of it…. Watching him was like watching a blind man trying to cook a beef stroganoff with one hand tied behind his back. Clueless.

we were told stuff like…

• you have to be patient
• You need to give him a dig out
• you have to consider he wasn’t brought up doing it this way. He is generation pen and paper..Leeway !
• he’s a lot older

etc…

if the daily reports were submitted 20 minutes after the deadline by any of us.. Strumms/Ronan/Caroline.. wtf happened ?

if Tony sent them 20 minutes late, fûcked up or both.. Strumms/Ronan/Caroline.. why didn’t you check how he was doing ? give him a dig out ? My answer… because I’m not his manager or babysitter.

one task / report he was just absolved for having to do because he took so long. Never disciplined and from an accidental discovery.. got positive annual performance review.

Bad employee meets bad manager and that’s the scenario.

bad employees for the most part exist because of bad management.

caviardreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119839192#Comment_119839192

I agree that weak management allows non performing employees to remain a problem, but in a lot of cases the manager's hands are tied by: unions, weak upper management who don't want hassle or a problem themselves, HR who don't want any risk of litigation or bad PR, the risk of the employee going off on long-term sick leave due to stress, the risk of the employee spreading toxic behaviour and affecting morale among colleagues who are performing well, and the personal risk of facing a bullying complaint from the poor performer.

It's not that simple sometimes.

Everlong1

Can you fire these people? If not, what other meaningful sanctions are available to you ? If there's no negative consequences for lousy performance you're always going to get shysters who'll milk the system for all it's worth.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058269834/are-there-bad-employees

Employment is full of brilliant, average, poor and **** people. It’s life. A managers’s main role(s) apart from managing) is to encourage, motivate, direct and inspire those people they manage. And even the best managers at these tasks will be met with assholes challenging them.

HildaOgdenx

I once worked with someone who stands out in my mind as a bad employee. Very capable but lazy as sin. Strolled in late every day, left early and did as little as possible in the few hours she actually spent at her desk. Most of that time was spent on personal phone calls.

And she called in sick on a very regular basis, so because she only worked part time, week on, week off, she had lots of extra time off, with no requirement for a doctor's cert, to my knowledge.

I have long moved on from that particular workplace but I gathered from others who knew her for far longer than I did, that that was the pattern of her 'working' life. She would have had a series of managers over the years but continued to play the same game with no retribution. The company was not renowned for its good management practices...

As I said, she stands out in my mind, so I guess the vast majority of people I worked with were the complete opposite to her, thankfully.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119833563#Comment_119833563

Yes they are.

I WAS doing it in an ad-hoc way, until one of the underperfomers complained.

It has stopped now. Now I tell them to work at home, but that I will not be calling them ;)