NI Dec 22 Assembly Election

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119868266#Comment_119868266

That’s just a red herring. I have no problem with people calling it all sorts. I often refer to it as the north, NI, OWC, ulster and even the occupied six in humour.

SF are the only party cannot ever use the name of the country they represent.

as for the gfa, it’s official name is clear ie the Belfast agreement. I would find it very strange if you said you refuse to ever use it’s official name.

the name is not the issue anyhow, it is that SFs position is to ensure NI fails. That’s a pity

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119868274#Comment_119868274

Unionism won't allow NI to work unless it gets it's veto on an 'undevolved' issue. Fact. Unsustainable.

SF have upheld their end of the GFA that they signed but the largest Unionist party didn't. SF brought down the executive over devolved matters - rank corruption and failure to fulfill the terms of the GFA and subsequent agreements. Britain agrees as it has gone above the heads of the veto waving Unionists and put legislation through on rights that were agreed.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119868241#Comment_119868241

You are reading too much into my use of the word community.

Unionists don't want things to work either. They are just stuck with the current set up.

As for saying the name of the place did Paisley say "Northern Ireland says no" ? Do Unionists join the NIVF the NIDA ?

Only the Alliance want NI to just move on and be a normal country.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119868373#Comment_119868373

You are completely missing my point about Northern Ireland, but I guess you know that. Ulster is a inaccurate nickname and well you know it. All those you mention refer primarily to ‘NI’.

unless you understand that sf are out to make NI fail then you will never understand the challenges unionists have working with them. I believe the SDLP even want NI to work

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119868704#Comment_119868704

Ha ha. Our wee insult to the name is not as serious as themun's one. Gas!

BTW, SF have been transparent about what they want to happen NI (and people vote for them freely and democratically) but they have also worked to their committments to the GFA. Fact. Has Unionism reciprocated? No. Also a fact.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119868266#Comment_119868266

What are you on about? Whatever about you - I live in, vote in and pay taxes in the Republic of Ireland.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119868918#Comment_119868918

Tut tut.

CONSTITUTION OF IRELAND

THE STATE

ARTICLE 4

The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119869070#Comment_119869070

And that in itself creates confusion and a sense of ownership. It is like North Korea calling itself Korea or USA calling itself North America.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119869603#Comment_119869603

It is more akin to the habit of people referring to 'The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland' as England. There a lot of people in Ireland that used to talk of emigration as 'taking the boat to England' despite the fact that the boat went to Wales - not England.

The established Church is the Church of England. The UK Central Bank is called the Bank of England. The legal tender is issued by the bank of England, but notes issued by banks in NI or Scotland are nor legal tender.

There are many other examples.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119869603#Comment_119869603

Wha?

This is ‘Ireland’, it is never going to be anywhere else.

The only ‘place’ mentioned in the name of where you live is Ireland as well.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119869070#Comment_119869070

Tut, tut yourself.

The Republic of Ireland Act 1948[a] (No. 22 of 1948) is an Act of the Oireachtas which declared that the description of Ireland was to be the Republic of Ireland, and vested in the president of Ireland the power to exercise the executive authority of the state in its external relations, on the advice of the Government of Ireland. The Act was signed into law on 21 December 1948 and came into force on 18 April 1949.

Just in case of any confusion Francie

Section 2 of the Act provides: It is hereby declared that the description of the State shall be the Republic of Ireland.

So stick that in yer constitutional pipe.

As stated - I live in, vote in and pay taxes in the Republic of Ireland. Thank you.

The lot up north live in, vote in and pay taxes in Northern Ireland. I believe the relevant legislation is the Northern Ireland Act 1998.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119870184#Comment_119870184

Of course And America is where Trump lives and Korea is where Kim lives Call it what you like. I guess it is a way to turn an unachievable aspiration into a dream. Your cornflakes will be ready soon.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119870496#Comment_119870496

Do you know the difference between a 'description' and a 'constitutional name'?

The Constitution of Ireland of 1937, provides that Ireland (or Éire in Irish) is the official name of the State and following the enactment of the Republic of Ireland Act of 1948, in 1949, Ireland became a Republic.

The 'name' did not change in 48, but the description of what we are as a political state/entity did.

Sorry.

FrancieBrady

Maybe you should have called it LondonIreland if 'ownership' is your issue?

Nobody would get away with out being laughed at doing that though. 😁

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119868241#Comment_119868241

The point, surely, is that the party that doesn't want NI to work is the largest party? That's a problem for NI, not for the party in question. If NI cannot attract sufficient support from its own people to effectively marginalise parties that want NI to fail — if 32% of NI voters vote for a party that wants NI to fail — then practically by definition, NI is not working.

So, the question becomes, what has to change in NI for the bulk of that 32% to be willing to switch to parties that try to make NI work? Edmund Burke was an Irishman and a Tory; no doubt, if unionism had been a thing in his time, he would have been a unionist. It is to him that we owe the observation that "to make us love our country, our country ought to be lovely". He was talking about revolutionary France, which he didn't think was lovely, but the principle can be applied to NI also.

And, to be clear, it's not SF's job to make NI lovely. Those who want NI to survive and thrive; they are the ones who need to make it into the kind of community that SF voters will commit to. And, honestly, I don't think voting for the DUP is a step in that direction.

lurleen lumpkin

Latest LucidTalk shows 6 in 10 want Dublin to have a role in NI if stormont closes.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119871541#Comment_119871541

And that is where we are headed. Joint Authority in everything but name. Hence the threats and actual attempts on the lives of Irish minsters.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119871552#Comment_119871552

I think "joint authority in everything but name" might be going a bit far. What we end up with is direct rule from Westminster, with Dublin having input into Westminster's decisions, through existing structures established for that purpose by the GFA. But ultimate Dublin's views are only reflected to the extent that Westminster can be persuaded. So not really "joint authority".

Still, gives Dublin a role that will seem wholly inappropriate to those unionists who categorise Dublin as a "foreign power". And at the same time gives Dublin a much lesser role than will seem appropriate to those who see Dublin in having at least as much legitimate interest in NI as Westminster does. So won't please anybody. So will be a very unstable situation.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119871567#Comment_119871567

All well and good if the 60% remain compliant, but I fancy there will be very vocal calls from political representatives across party lines and from a very strong base that will be hard to resist.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119871631#Comment_119871631

Like I say, I think it will be unstable. But hopefully it will limp along until the UK has a sane government again. The next UK general election can't come too soon for NI.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119871676#Comment_119871676

Elections are pointless when you have a supposedly 'Democratic' party refusing to accept the outcomes.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119870568#Comment_119870568

No representation without taxation Francie. I and maybe you pay taxes to the Republic of Ireland. This is my state.

There is no actual state called Ireland despite what the constitution may waftily aspire to. The constitution has more nonsense like this, such as that Irish or Gaeilge is the primary language. Another waft of an aspiration that flies in the face of reality.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119872049#Comment_119872049

There is no 'aspiration' in the Constitution re: the name of the State. It is clearly stated. Also clearly stated here:

Look, I couldn't care less what you call it, the facts are the facts though.

The official name of this state in the Constitution which trumps everything, is 'Ireland and Éire'.

Sam Russell

How will NI handle the outbreak of avian flu in the flock of turkeys in Clones. They currently have no Minister for Agriculture, so who will be leading the actions that must be taken?

It would be so much easier in a united Ireland.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119872197#Comment_119872197

This and protecting/securing the island during a human pandemic too.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119872095#Comment_119872095

Paper never refused ink, Francie.

But just where is this state called Ireland? What constitutes it's territory? What are it's borders? Does it have all the usual features of a state: government, taxation, military etc etc?

'Ireland' is a geographical concept, not a political one. No amount of constitutional pretence changes that.

I look forward to your reply.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119872320#Comment_119872320

'Constitutional pretence'?

You are sounding like Bryson or Sammy.

The constitution is the bible in this regard. The name of the state is Ireland.

The UN list of recognised countries is not too shabby either:

Are they 'pretending' too? 😁

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119872331#Comment_119872331

You have ignored my query: But just where is this state called Ireland? What constitutes it's territory? What are it's borders?

Please elucidate. Tell me where the borders of the state of Ireland are.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119872362#Comment_119872362

Start a thread if you are confused. Irrelevant here.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119872320#Comment_119872320

The territory of the state called Ireland is the 26 counties. The anomalies were removed as a result of the GFA when the constitution was changed and the claim on the territory of the 6 counties was removed. We now aspire to unite the people of this island.