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NEW 2022 Assistant Principal Competition - Open and Interdepartmental



  • Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭ the_freaky_one

    Total score = results from Situational judgment + verbal reasoning added together.

    OOM is where you rank on the list for total score compared to everyone else.

    Assuming you passed all three tests, your OOM will dictate where on the list you are for consideration in the short listing process.

    If you have total score of 1159 higher, you will be in batch 1 for short listing, below this you may be in a batch 2, 3, etc assume there is requirement for that number of people.....

    So once you passed the test, I don't think test scores are that relevant now, i assume your OOM may provide some high level indication of potential waiting time.

  • Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭ kellyi3

    Different but similar context, had applied to a PAS competition before taking on a new job in the private sector after some time unemployed so it wasn't on my application form. When I got to interview and the panel were asking me about my career, I mentioned that I had gone back to work since applying for the PAS competition and it was fine. Wouldn't worry too much as I've found most PAS panels to be very understanding that life moves fast but the PAS process moves slow.

  • Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭ durthacht

    The total score creates the OOM, which is then revised after the assessment of application forms, and again after the interviews.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3 annmariemcc

    How long do you think it will take to shortlist the application forms?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭ durthacht

    There is a lot to go through in the application forms so it's understandable that it might take some time.

  • Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭

    Results are in!!

    I only scored 99 on the shortlisting which is both surprising and extremely disappointing. I've been one grade below this for many years with a lot of relevant experience (albeit public sector experience). The cutoff is a score of 113 so I'm way off. I'm not at all certain where I went wrong on the application form.

    I was in the top 120 OOM but this makes me wonder if I'm a good fit at all if they scored my experience so badly. Really odd how consistently bad my scores are when I definitely have strengths and weaknesses. They are all mid20's

  • Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭ durthacht

    I missed the cut too with a score of 95, so you did better than me. I thought I made my application form relevant to the competencies so I'm disappointed too.

    I assume they will create a second and third batch for interview though, so hang in there. Good luck.

  • Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭

    Chin up I suppose. I wonder if there are many people getting help with this process for example with putting on the form exactly what is needed. There seems to be a whole industry based around helping people tick the boxes.

  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭ thalia_13

    I missed out too, my leadership one let me down, which considering I'm already at heo level managing a large team i can't fathom how my example was soo poor. Gutted

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  • Registered Users Posts: 15 oranreilly

    Disqualified 😥

    Very disappointed, I got feedback from a lot of people on my form, I thought it would be good enough to at least get to the interview.

  • Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭ Gadgetman99

    As long as you received the minimum pass you will be called in subsequent batches its just a matter of time so I wouldn't worry too much.

    Also like everything some times its just a matter of did you get you're examples out better than the person above/below you, its a super competitive process with thousands of applicants each competition.

  • Registered Users Posts: 25 lemma

    Does it mean disqualified or not being called for interview yet?

  • Registered Users Posts: 7 Darwiny

    How did they get through them all accurately in the few days between 30th January – 3rd February 2023?

    I'm disappointed but I just have to laugh I got 16 in a competency that I've previously gotten 36.

    Who said consistency is the key?

  • Registered Users Posts: 15 mcgort

    Just got my score, 188, with this note: We are currently inviting those candidates who achieved a total score of 114 or higher to Stage 3 of the selection process - Main Interview and Strategic Analysis Exercise. Candidates who achieved a total score lower than 114 will be called forward in due course.

    I was 145 on OOM, does this now mean I might have moved up?

    Does anyone have any information on the strategic analysis exercise? Or main interview tips?

  • Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭ Gadgetman99

    Going by the Stage 2 results of the 2021 competition, it doesn't push you're rank up. It only counts to get you into the Batch they interview unless they break the batches up into smaller chunks if too many scored above 114.

    You only get a revised OOM after all the interviews of the Batch are done which is based on you're score at interview and presentation

  • Registered Users Posts: 15 mcgort

    Ah, this means I will be called for an interview, but there are no dates when. Do they call in OOM order or points on experience order? Then they re-calibrate everyone based on interview + presentation (so these points or previous points no longer count?)

  • Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭ Gadgetman99

    You would have to ask PAS directly how they assign interview dates ie. by original OOM or score initially. But I would think that as the end result is the same, it shouldn't matter as they don't post results individually but at the end of the Batch interviews.

    If you are worried about holidays, getting time off etc. you could ask PAS when they hope to run the interviews. From memory they do interviews over 3-4 weeks.

  • Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭ Gadgetman99

    Also the OOM you get assigned is based only on you're interview and presentation.

  • Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭ the_freaky_one

    Is the interview and presentation generally held in one session or split over two sessions?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭ billyhead

    Is there no final interview for this competition i.e. preliminary interview first and if you pass that a final interview and presentation.

  • Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭ Gadgetman99

    The interview and presentation should be all one session it was in 2021. Presentation first then the interview straight after with the same board.

    just one interview and combined presentation no preliminary interview.

  • Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭ the_freaky_one

    Short listing based on your form, no one way video interview and a single combined interview and presentation sounds fantastic 👍

  • Registered Users Posts: 14 BigElmo

    I am familiar with PAS' process. I'd be happy to help you adapt your application next time or help you with a Section 7 Review now if you think it's warranted.

  • Registered Users Posts: 14 BigElmo

    As I said above to, I can help you write and word your Section 7 appeal. It sounds like you were unfairly or inconsistently judged if you received 36/50 for the same competency in another AP competition. DM if you want.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9 dearlandlord

    I am in a very similar situation to , scores of 24, 24, 25, 25, and I was a bit surprised at the lowness of the scores and the evenness of them (was in the 80’s on the open and 50’s on interdepartmental, and thought my experience strong. I have not heard of the section 7 appeal, but would like to appeal I think, just to see how they applied their process. Would it be ok to contact you? Might anyone else have advice, e.g. is it a good idea to appeal? Thanks.

  • Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭ Gadgetman99

    Page 18 onwards of the AP hand book covers informal reviews/rechecks, Section 7 and 8 reviews. Section 7 reviews have a very short time window to be applied for, 5 days from notification of result I believe.

    The pass mark was 21 for each competency, so you will be interviewed but just not in the first batch (likely multiple batches). As always you run the risk you could be marked upwards, downwards or no change. I’m not sure you will get a more favorable out come but you may get some minor insights through a Section 7.

    From my own experience of a Section 7 review in the past for failing a stage, the decision didn’t change and I was more or less told the reviewers were highly experienced, trained by PAS in what to identify and that they relooked at the matter and were satisfied not to change their outcome. Maybe some one else on here had a more positive outcome from a review but I didn’t glean much from my Section 7 review other than I needed to change my approach.

    Let us know how you get on if you go ahead with one.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9 dearlandlord

    Thank you, that’s very helpful and informative, I think prob best to leave it regards a section 7 so. It seems all is to very set formula/criteria that are more defined than the competences in the booklet, wonder is that info out there in detail? Wondering now if interview/cv coaches would have been a better approach than just my own interpretations, it seems there might be a “formula” for each part, and once you know that and tailor for it, you do better. Perhaps that’s gaming it, but if they have set it up this way, then that looks to be the best way to hit the marks? Thank you for your help.

  • Registered Users Posts: 29 Maelenn

    I missed out too, my leadership one let me down. Although I have previous managerial experience outside of the Civil Service, they seem to have only considered my current role. I’m an AO in a Department where AOs don’t normally manage EOs, COs. Would anyone have any ideas on how to get the management experience they want? I am considering asking for mobility. Would anyone know which Departments I would be more likely to have staff to manage?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭ Gadgetman99

    I’ll try and cover all your queries and I welcome any one else rowing in too. Hopefully this is of help to you and others on here.

    1. The short listing from what I can see is based only on the responses given to the 4 questions. I’m sorry you didn’t get through but they couldn’t have only considered you’re current role unless you based your leadership response on only you’re AO role.
    2. AO’s tend not to have staff except in rare situations and applies to any department. Revenue is one of the few I have heard have AO managers also some other line departments like Dep Ag. But you take the risk of going to a new area and not actually getting staff and end up some where for a few more years in the same situation as now. Another alternative is a secondment if a suitable one comes up and you could find the information hand book tells you whether you will manage staff.
    3. If you have people management experience from outside the civil service that should be enough, it’s up to you to get that across in your responses. My opinion and what has worked for me is not to simply say you had x job and managed staff and give a summary of what you had responsibility for, you need to give evidence of some kind for example I had x job and managed y for z year. While at this role I was tasked with 1,2,3. This is how I delivered (STAR format) on these tasks (in the context of the question asked). I know of many AO’s with a lot of very good outside the civil service management experience that have no staff that have been successful in the AP competitions both on the open and internal. It’s just about refining you’re responses, I suggest contacting people you work with who have been successful in the AP competitions you are applying for in your own department or reading through the posts on the 2021 thread there’s tons of great responses, knowledge and advice already posted that can guide you. Also very few people get through a competition to the end it’s a very competitive process with thousands of applicants for a small number of jobs by comparison, it can take multiple attempts so don’t feel too disappointed it’s all about improving your technique until you get it right.
    4. You could try and identify the small number of AO roles internally that have staff and wait them out and express an interest in filling those roles through your manager when they become vacant. I’ve seen this happen before, it’s rare but it does happen.