Suicide

kirk.

It seems to happening everywhere right now

I was affected by it recently so probably just notice it more or has this always been the way?

Sorry for your loss.

theres been more I think since covid, but it’s possible you may also just be more hyperaware of it at the moment also.

Either way I feel like was mental health not treated like an afterthought in a lot of the world, here especially, it wouldn’t be the case & it’s sad that no one seems to do anything but we all seem to realise the logic.

kirk.

Yah the mental health was actually an issue in my case

Nothing ever seems to come from the services ranging from camhs to adult metal health services , always seemed like a revolving door , maybe some people can't be helped

standardg60

At the end of the day no amount of awareness or prevention campaigns are going to stop it.

Some people are born to just not want to live, i think some credence should be given to this scenario instead of proclaiming that it's all preventable, which is of no help to loved ones left behind in terms of feeling guilty.

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119768660#Comment_119768660

Your last sentence.. Not within the existing framework of caring. Not sure of the timeframe in Ireland but in the UK when the big old mental hospitals closed suicide rates increased. They called it " care in the community" but the community did not know how to care. So seriously unwell folk were stranded. Families used to be more focussed on caring for weaker folk in crisis. Then we started to expect the health services to do everything.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119768677#Comment_119768677

True I think that's a factor

With suicide you go back in time and there's a lot of guilt

With other trauma and I've experienced that too there wasn't that just the event and the loss

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119768677#Comment_119768677

Disagreeing with your last paragraph strongly. VERY strongly. It IS preventable but not easy. Been on both sides of the situation. it is a crisis "decision" so often.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119768720#Comment_119768720

I think all the points made are valid

-Mental health services crisis

-Desire not to live

-Crisis decision

Everyone bereavd I feel wishes they could have stopped the act of suicide

PTH2009

Over prescription of Anti Depressents and other psychotic medication is possibly part of the problem. There's very little mention of the huge weight gain some of these medications cause and that's having a big effect on people not to mention that some actually make people more depressed/anxious

For that reason I will never take any of those tablets. Took them for about 2 years and did not fair well esp with the public health service always advising 'no keep taking them'

The medications work for some but not everyone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119768978#Comment_119768978

Don't forget the sexual side effects they cause. What's the point of life if you can't experience one of it's greatest pleasures.

Still stihl waters 3

From what I can see a lot of it is drug and alcohol abuse, I work with a man in his mid 30s who has addiction issues and misses work regularly, he frequently brings up doing away with himself in his times of sobriety, his parents are only waiting for the day they find him dead, he puts them through torture but he won't get help. Some people just don't want to live, if he ever does it at least it'll be an act of closure for his family so they're not living with the threat of it daily

Howard Beale

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058268243/suicide

Know of 1 or 2 since the Lockdown.

I personally believe the lockdown is responsible for literally hundreds of suicides and it's not spoken of. Not that the government gives one single shyt. For your 'health' just lets entirely 100% ignore how devastating it is to mental health.

Isolation/lack of activity/closures of businesses/paranoia over a virus/breakup of routine.

A mate of mine had a very successful photobooth business that went under during the lockdown he lost thousands. He commit suicide last year. You are always left wondering could there have been something I could have done that's the pisser of someone killing themselves.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058268243/suicide

always been there unfortunately, our rates seem to be in a fairly steady state at the moment

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119768978#Comment_119768978

yes medication can have negative effects causing suicidal ideation etc but i suspect more have been saved by their use than not saved, unfortunately the professional supports required effectively dont exist in the country, and probably never will either, this in turn causes a default towards medication, with limited, if any supports

greenspurs

Sidenote .

I wish people would stop using the word "COMMIT" suicide ..

Why not say "took his/her own life"?

Commit always seems as if its a crime, and it must affect the family of those that do take their own life ....

deisemum

In one week 10 people including a child died by suicide in Galway alone, my family member being one of them. The undertaker said around 50% of deaths were by suicide. My family member presented at A&E twice in the one day pleading for help as he was suicidal and he was kicked out which is a regular occurence.

tayto lover

I find that a lot of people who try to take their own lives and fail just want to be dead for a short period and not forever. I have asked many in a place where i volunteer and they have told me this. They are trying to get past a certain event or a trouble spot in their lives and see no way forward or around it. But they don't want to be dead for good. Now that can be hard to understand but its what they say.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119770394#Comment_119770394

As they say it is a long term solution to a (often) short term problem.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119770559#Comment_119770559

Indeed it is. Loads of different reasons for trying it too from Bullying, bad relationship, break up, family trauma, death of friend etc etc.

kirk.

Lockdown was a factor in my family members death and addiction too

There's the guilt and going back in time which is hard

There's so many questions and someone said to me there's no answers and maybe that's it

Graces7

Some years ago now ... something that changed my ideas. I was chatting online someone I had recently "met" in a group. Just general.... talk about the weather, how I was settling in Ireland.. About trees as there were tall ones tapping at my window.. We parted.. then I got a message that explained that when we started chatting she had been seriously been about t o take her own life. Just that small simple human contact had ... broken that train of thought. Sometimes that is what it takes. A kindness. ordinary human contact, to chip away at the lonely place that is that terrible urge to.... escape. Not life itself but life as it is at that moment.... Been there myself long long ago and it is a lonely place.

Strumms

The number of suicides recorded in the state fell to its lowest level in at least two decades as of year ending 2020….

i can’t find more up to date info… the CSO site is beyond a joke, search function not working and information presented as if a bag of words were thrown at a wall by a one armed bandit.. bizarre.

i only knew one kid who did it, we were about 17, him 15/16 roughly…New guy to the area, he was helped to integrate, his sister was making friends and getting on well. He was troubled. A penchant for violence, he’d be kicking absolute lumps out of his opponents on the green playing football and causing rows, physical rows. He was rightly jettisoned as people got sick of constant psycho violent agro….he made one friend in the aftermath who eventually moved away with his family and months later the lad in question killed himself using solvents.

Howard Beale

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119770628#Comment_119770628

Sorry to hear but unfortunately the vast majority of people love governments and the media and thus never question anything at all.

Lockdown devastated business and the mental health of the nation and governments knew this course they did but they were all off in Galway coking it up and drinking themselves into a stupor.

Isolation is devastating to mental health there is hundreds of reports on it even from the WHO. If you are depressed and isolated only talking to yourself you are in very very bad company.

https://www.who.int/news/item/02-03-2022-covid-19-pandemic-triggers-25-increase-in-prevalence-of-anxiety-and-depression-worldwide

Strumms

Lockdown saved way more lives then it negatively impacted,

how many more covid deaths, hundreds maybe even thousands without it.

thefallingman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119768720#Comment_119768720

preventable if you have alot of money to line your gp, and then a counsellor and then a shrinks pockets. IF you don't you are put on a high dose of antidepressants and forgotten about and left to rot. That's the harsh reality i know only too well. If the government really want to help these services should be subsidised on referral, but we all know that will never happen. Also, people saying i never knew there was something wrong after the act is lying, there is always signs, again i speak from personal experience, running or walking in the dark after someone is gone is useless.

PTH2009

Social media is also a blemish in society nowadays. Almost everything both positive and negative is done through there (trips away, work things, dating etc) and something done through that can have a huge affect on a person. A lot of good chats done online but in person could be very little chit chat

I got broken up through a message on an app and the aftermath is still affecting me. Anger Management has helped me a lot and time is making things easier

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119770788#Comment_119770788

I dont think this is the fcuking right place to beat that drum ffs ................................... 😣 jaysus....

greenspurs

I had a family member have a 'meltdown'..

Was always sullen, detached, loner. I got him a job, he couldnt handle it on his bad/down days .... Very tough to speak as he was always angry... spoke about ending it. The mother is/was living on her nerves, and walking on eggshells for years - no life. Should have kicked him out years ago....

Anxiety also playing a part, as was cannabis/weed ... (ahh shur its harmless, should be legalised... MY B0LLIx it should)

I had to call the guards to remove him from a house as he was threatening, Gardai were BRILLIANT. Handle it very well.

Brought to station, assessed and brought to hospital under Mental health act.

Was in there for 4/5 days, speaking with counsellor, came out with a renewed viewpoint.

Had a couple of appointments with the counsellor afterwards and then .......... NOTHING..... Nothing from hospital.

I made him go to gp, gp went apesh1t over it , and made them give him more appointments, and gave him pills.

The patient was reluctant to take them ... but once he did he improved - more stable, less anxious, and could sleep.

But, unfortunately the patient has returned to weed and his sullen ways.......

Sometimes , maybe always, they want to be helped, Sometimes they wont take it .......😔

thefallingman

that sounds rough greenspurs and all too familiar, the weed thing helps you escape the constant self belittling even for an hour, the sullen loner thing aswell, trust me if he's anything like me he doesn't want to be that way. I've lived alone for 15 years because it's just easier, easier to control my feelings/emotions and i can't let anybody down that way, i know most people find that weird but unless you have depression you will never really understand the pain and self loathing that come with it. I hope your family member improves for all your sakes

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119770788#Comment_119770788

About isolation etc. it is not isolation that does the damage but not adjusting to it when there is need as there was dire need in lockdown.... and lockdown did not "ruin the metalhealth of the nation". I am alone 24/7. My immune system is down due to CFS/ME and a simple cold would kill me, I know and knew that and I adjusted. This is permanent for me, and a mask would not be enough protection. if we accept needful limitations - and they were needful - and adjust? Then in truth we grow and our acceptance leads to excellent mental health. It really is up to us. Sure it was very hard. But we have advantages I did not have in earlier years. I keep in touch via here. Meeting so many folk and some are now friends .. In many ways mental health IS up to us.

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119770804#Comment_119770804

So there is nothing you can do to help yourself or each other?

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119771023#Comment_119771023

It is exactly the right place ! Need to get and keep things in proportion. The death rate from covid would have been even worse than it already is.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119771060#Comment_119771060

This was essentially me but not as extreme (I've never been sectioned or arrested)

I stopped taking the meds myself and I understand why your family member did. Do you know the side effects of these meds? They're nearly as bad as the illness itself.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119771377#Comment_119771377

Victim blaming.....

Jesus christ man... Cop on ta fcuk will yaa....... 🤬

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119771400#Comment_119771400

He was able to function while on them, interact with people, no anxiety , able to sleep.....

And without moody, anxious, irrational, not nice to be around essentially !

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119771385#Comment_119771385

So those that with mental issues and that couldnt cope with the never ending doom that was in your face for 18mths, and not allowed leave your house , and they took their own life, were just acceptable collateral damage ?

ahappychappy

I've been up close and personal with this awful curse for a long time as an ex-partner of someone who has significant MH battles. I lived with a partner for 15 years that made numerous attempts and was indeed "sectioned" several times, each time we manged to convince them to self-admit. They are still alive - on a massive amount of variety of drugs for over a decade and under what would be considered a good mental health team.

A couple of things I found frustrating - as a (married at the time) partner my voice wasn't listened to - this was so frustrating as I was aware while they attended their GP, picked up their prescriptions - they didn't take their medication for years. There was very little talking therapy and when it happened it took a really long time to access after an incident. I believe my partner had the mask back in place by the time any therapy was able to be engaged with. This isnt a criticism of the medical team but what my ex partner presented to them was deemed "well/recovered" and I would be asked was I anxious etc! The team changed every six months - so the patients rarely saw the same medical team.

The community care is too broad in its provision - it included people experiencing mild depression to people who had violent episodes - terrifying my partner so they were unable to engage with the offered art therapy etc. And the breadth of the provision was unable to support many - simply put the wonderful staff were constantly firefighting.

I did the A&E a few times with my partner when an attempt of their life was made and the attitudes of some of the admin/medical staff were unbelievable in their ignorance of mental health - better training is vital. I dread to think what would have happened if I hadn't been there a few times to advocate and call out really horrific attitudes.

I see my kids now have had a lot more input into learning about MH and I hope that will make the difference to some of the younger generation.

Sonics2k

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119768677#Comment_119768677

Speaking as someone who has been suicidal for some 20 years now, with the most recent attempt being about a year and a half ago, can I just say that that's a nonsense attitude.

I was very much born with this, a stupid chemical imbalance in my own brain that occasionally tries to convince me of the worst possible solution, and by no means should we accept that people simply don't want to live. We're not talking about euthanasia where somebody dying slowly and painfully of cancer or something.

Awareness and prevention campaigns won't solve it, and I don't think anyone claims it, but they sure as hell can help. Not just for the person going through it, but those around them who can learn to spot the various signs and indicators. You'd be astonished how incredibly helpful something like grabbing that one friend and going for a coffee is.

PTH2009

In the public health service you'd be seeing a new doctor each time

'OK take these and you're grand come back to us in 3 months' type service

Different for people but I'd struggle with weekly counselling appointments. I prefer them spread out a few weeks. Sometimes not enough happens in a week

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119771448#Comment_119771448

Your last sentence brings tears. Hang on in there please. Your understanding and realism are rare qualities. I was misdiagnosed as being mentally ill for three painful decades in the UK and the best help came from the Samaritans. Well the ONLY real help. This was in the UK and I had a befriender who took me for drives, visited etc. She literally saved my life and my sanity in so many ways. When the truth was finally realised ( I have severe M.E) I spent a year getting off all meds then left the country. The side effects of the meds were causing depression. I still have all the symptoms they were misdiagnosing as mental health issues. Self awareness is vital for every illness.

Star Bingo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119768677#Comment_119768677

I reckon such campaigns only put things into consideration, like on kids conscience where it may not have been previously. Trend that topic enough and they may even think it’s the done thing. It’s a bit like suggesting someone hang in there

corner of hells

There are training courses available to anyone wishing to learn to support someone at risk or expressing suicidal ideation.

Safetalk is the precursor and Asist is a more advanced training, it can be quite raw .They're free and HSE approved as far as I can remember.

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058268243/suicide

Yes in the mid to late 90’s I lost 5 friends to it and more people I knew but not well. Each of them a shock but it seemed endemic then .

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119771448#Comment_119771448

You're right, it is just a stupid chemical imbalance. I was born with it too, which thankfully medication has corrected for many years.

My point is though that people who take or attempt to take their own lives at the time think it's in no way preventable, or else they wouldn't do it. Labelling it as such after the fact is imo unfair to those left behind.

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on this given you've been there, if you'd been successful with your attempt (thankfully not), would you be happy to burden your loved ones with guilt for the rest of their lives?

Surely no-one who ever takes their own lives would wish this.

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119770804#Comment_119770804

I strongly disagree with your statement about people not knowing.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119771484#Comment_119771484

Could you not ask for counselling appointments every 2/3 weeks? Surely if you explain that you need them this way they'd go for it.

PTH2009

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119771955#Comment_119771955

Pieta house couldn't do it due to a waiting list

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119771023#Comment_119771023

im not beating a drum, I’m offering an opinion… respectfully I think it’s fair game and valid that a counter or varying opinion is heard.

im all for discussion.

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119770198#Comment_119770198

OMG, I have noticed that more younger aged in the last few years are taking their own lives, social media a factor?

It's hard to know what goes on in anyone's head but being turned away when looking for help is wrong

BaywatchHQ

Male loneliness is a rampant disease. A modern young female has no idea what true loneliness is. I wonder how many phone contacts the average woman has, certainly not 4 like I do. If a woman posts about her mental health on social media she will be flooded with upvotes to validate her. Men like me should be given universal basic income for life and tokens for escorts. I think in 100 years that will happen.

Too many organisations with well paid staff. They do not want to just have one because they might lose their job in their 'charities'. Also, there is no evidence depression is a chemical imbalance corrected by antidepressant drugs. No evidence that drugs increase serotonin and this helps depression.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2022/jul/no-evidence-depression-caused-low-serotonin-levels-finds-comprehensive-review

That is drug company spiel.

And there is evidence antidepressant drugs can cause anxiety and agitation. the people who give the drugs are too ignorant to believe that as they believe the drug company line