EIR contractor trying to put wires across my house

Viscount Aggro

I have EIR contractor KN Circet trying to attach wires across my house to the adjoining house.

I assume its for broadband connection.

Have I a right to say NO..

The installer says its between me and my neighbour.

Its going to look messy and I dont want it.

daheff

your house. of course you have a right to say no. Don't let them on your property until you resolve the issue. Call the guards if necessary.

The Continental Op

Not your problem OP. If the neighbor wants a connection to whatever then Eir or their contractors will have to put in a new pole if they can't run a cable from an existing one. Out in the country they do that because its an easy job putting a pole in a grass verge but in the town its expensive digging up pavements and relaying them to put in a new pole so basically they won't do it.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756706#Comment_119756706

Bit quick to escalate there, no?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058267890/eir-contractor-trying-to-put-wires-across-my-house

Yes, you have a right to say no, but you also have to live beside a neighbour who is possibly being inconvenienced by inflexibility. Wires have been routed across houses for decades now and the system works well if people facilitate the need. One wire won't affect the house much, you could just tell them that you'll only accept the wire and no header/junction-boxes, etc.

Many years ago now the then Eircom run a wire across the front of my house but they put it directly under the gutter and in black trunking so it literally invisible - you should ask them if this is possible.

runawaybishop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058267890/eir-contractor-trying-to-put-wires-across-my-house

Yes, you can refuse. It's entirely up to you.

Mate of mine used to do this work, he always advised to see what the contractors company can do for you, i.e free broadband, sky or whatever for the year for facilitating them. When the year is up you can request they are removed unless your free deal is extended. You can also specify that the work is done to your standards so you are happy with how neat it is. Worst they will say is no and reroute it.

monseiur

Nobody has a right to interfere with your property be it internal or external without your permission. If a KN Circet employee fell off a ladder while fitting this cable to your house or if he/she injured a third party by say dropping a hammer etc. who is responsible ? If you decide to allow these cables to be attached to your house you should at least get free broadband, or similar for life (or for as long as you live in the house) - it will cost EIR next to nothing whereas if they have to dig up footpaths, road, lawns etc. it will cost many thousands of Euro, it could be anything from €25,000 to €75,000 Asking for free broadband for a year is a joke, don't even consider it. Whatever agreement you come to be sure to get it in writing and approved by your solicitor before signing.

magicbastarder

i wouldn't go expecting any favours from your neighbour if you blocked them getting their broadband!

but as above, the contractors have zero right to fix anything to your house unless you give them permission.

manonboard

Agreed, you can get half price or free for a VERY long time. My mother got half price for tv for a year.. Absolutely silly gain..

We now have a large cable for life. Its very easy to get large concessions from this company.

runawaybishop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119759683#Comment_119759683

Liability isn't an issue for the OP, these contractors are all insured.

The freebies are usually for a year, as thats what the standard contracts are, but there should be no issue renewing them yearly at no cost to the OP. There's no need to get a solicitor involved. It's free broadband, not a house sale.

monseiur

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119759736#Comment_119759736

I would most certainly get my solicitor to run his learned eye over any contract before I sign. The devil is always in the detail...the large print give it, the small print take it away (or words to that effect) You say ''there should be no issue renewing'' what if there is an issue, if the OP signs an agreement that allows one years free broadband and the issue arises when it comes to renewing. What if Eir sells to another provider ? No doubt Eir will verbally promise the OP the sun, moon & stars just to get the easy/ cheapest route for their cable. A wise man once said that a verbal contract is not worth the paper it's written on !!

It may not be a house sale but the sums could be substantial over a period - say €500 per year for 35 years = €17,500 I would contend it's worth the solicitors fee !

Viscount Aggro

Whats stopping me is...my neighbour is also my dentist.. ouch

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119761090#Comment_119761090

Free checkups and fillings ;-)

daheff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756771#Comment_119756771

If the contractor is on the OP property to install the wire what do you suggest they do to stop it? Push the contractor off the ladder?

Gardai would seem to be the reasonable next step if the contractor is trespassing, no?

Viscount Aggro

Nah, ive had this before.... simply climbed up and cut the wires away.

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119759917#Comment_119759917

What about getting your solicitor to clip the cables along the house ?

Would that cut out a lot of the shite ?

kippy

You can of course say no. That might make it awkward with the neighbour depending on whether it effects their ability to get whatever that line is for.

It would probably be better if the contractor can do the job to your satisfaction. These cables can be innocuous if done well.

The big cash deals and long term free services that people have gotten from providers over the years are more likely to be cables that provide service to a large amount of people rather than service to one person. I'd expect in this case if you could negotiate with Eir, it would be for a cheaper service for a while but not multiples of thousands etc.

Capt'n Midnight

This is the relevant act https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2002/act/20/enacted/en/print.html prior to this NTL / Eircom had rights to run cables up the wazoo

If access is needed for major infrastructure with lots and lots of customers hanging off it then they might do a deal.

But if the line is only needed for one neighbour then they'll never make enough on it to subsidise you so probably no deal and no internet for you neighbour. Yes they must provide a voice connection, but they can do that with a wireless voice only connection connection.

Put the shoe on the other foot. If you had no broadband and the only reason was your neighbour refusing to let them run the cable how would you feel ?

magicbastarder

I got several years free UPC years ago after they entered my property to attach a cable to the wall after being explicitly told not to. And the gate was padlocked shut.

I was having construction work done to the front of the house, hence the instruction. We'd started out by warning them that if they did enter the property to do this, we could not guarantee the safety of the cable due to the nature of the work. Their response basically was 'are you threatening to damage the cable?' so we sent them explicit instructions not to enter. Which they (KN) lost in their systems.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119761911#Comment_119761911

You've quoted the act as if you know what it says so how about a quote from the relevant part?

monseiur

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119761911#Comment_119761911

I'm not suggesting refusing Eir to run a cable, just cutting a watertight deal with them before cable is fitted and if need be explaining the situation to neighbour. If Eir refuses OP then let the neighbour be mad at Eir not OP ! It's a win win situation OP gets free broadband or what ever and Eir saves a substantial sum in the process. Eir's current revenue is €2.655 billion.

TAFKA_hometruths_real

ex-comms installer here...

Only time I've heard of NTL/Virgin etc... providing free service is if it was close to a distribution point... so if you have potential for disrupting a number of services (say an estate or a road full of potential valuable customers) they will do a deal.... many many people have been refused deals (I know from experience because our neighbour 2 doors up tried to do the same for UPC, which UPC were happy to forgo 4 customers instead of appeasing my neighbour)

From the installs perspective, the statute book ref has already been posted, however, there is also "grandfather" rights, similar to bylaws for walkways, where if it's in situ for a certain period, it's difficult to remove and even though it's on your property, you may be subject to infrastructure damage claims if something ever happens while service to other customers is interrupted.

What needs to be asked is:

-how are any comms cables currently run? is each household fed overhead or underground individually? Is it flyer cables (cables ran UG/Overhead to 1 premises, either to a distribution point or individually for 2 or 3 houses, then fed under the eves to others)?

If there is current precedence of flyer cables, and/or if you're only being a hindrance to your neighbour getting service, the operator will most likely walk away and offer a mobile service.

The right to a phone legislation isn't as tight as it was before with the prevalence of mobile phones. You can't turn around to a company and say "I want x to here" anymore.... infrastructure is now best endeavours and within reason. If it requires new UG infrastructure or a pole, your neighbour will most likely foot part of the dig and build cost (2 or 3 grand last rough guestimates were, depending on distance)....

Thinkingaboutit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058267890/eir-contractor-trying-to-put-wires-across-my-house

One potential approach is to maybe see if they will concede a free service which happened in one case I know directly of where the house has a box on it serving as a node or junction, but this is an Eir contractor. I wouldn't wish Eir on my worst enemy, well maybe I would.

TAFKA_hometruths_real

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119761764#Comment_119761764

just expanding on this... for new installs you could definitely get the guards involved, but I doubt any installer is going to fight to do an install :-D

for existing infrastructure, it's not so clear cut...

As I mentioned, there are certain grandfather rights in situ for installs that were before the 2002 statute legislation... which are technically governed by a "right of way" for providers to access and fix infrastructure...

However, no one is going to fight to fix a fault either. The onus will be put on the customer to escalate it to Comreg who can then initiate court proceedings to gain access... I had never seen this actually happen, but it was being discussed for a fault cluster in Galway where a lot of the feeds on the edge of town are usually from a single pole, in someone's backgarden. In this case a person hadn't allowed Eircom access to it for years and there were over 10 faults on it (the whole estate pretty much). Poor cheap planning IMO, but that's how it was done in the 80's/90's.

Current regs mandate individual UG or overhead feeds where practically possible, but there will always be outliers.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119764462#Comment_119764462

Another that "knows" that this information in the statues but doesn't quote them.

kazoo106

Who said it was Eir? - Its OpenEir and they are not an ISP

TAFKA_hometruths_real

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119764846#Comment_119764846

another sarcastic comment from someone who hasn't worked on the network...

I'm not legal so I don't know the legislation from heart, but I am definitely aware of what we were and weren't allowed to do in the field with regards to access rights (personal safety and employment can sort of hinge on that). From a personal perspective, it was usually walk away highlight it to management and let them sort it. From a company perspective, if any major customers were affected there were expedited routes to Comreg to address these issues (they could get the guards involved fairly fast). it rarely comes to that, a friendly chat usually worked everything out, but there's always a certain few.

On a side of things where I did see action, it was electromagnetic interference, and I have been there were Comreg and the guards have been involved to search properties for offending equipment, it rarely came to the guards, a letter from Comreg and a friendly visit was usually sufficed.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119766738#Comment_119766738

There may well be legislation and I'd love to read it but I couldn't find any in the link that you indicated already covered it.

TAFKA_hometruths_real

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119766760#Comment_119766760

Give OpenEir, KN or Comreg a shout, they'll help you out with proper references

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119764846#Comment_119764846

any time i have a tradesman turn up at my house the first test i give them to to ask them to quote the statutes under which they work. they're clearly spoofers if they can't do that.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119764591#Comment_119764591

I'd simply refuse, dentist or not. It devalues your house without compensation and potentially might hinder you in future.

My house had a well out front. It failed and I had to get someone in with a drilling rig to sink a new one. The first attempt came up dry and I had to get a digger in to widen a route past the house so the rig could be taken around the back. Second hole was good. The last thing I needed was a cable across my property I might be liable for or which might have impeded what needed to be done.

saabsaab

Came across similar with a friends house. They wanted accessto run a cable across the front. Seemed no problem but when asked they said they woul dbe drilling into the stone wall every 2 ft or so!

No way.

TAFKA_hometruths_real

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119767581#Comment_119767581

A telecoms cable would never impede work like that... I have been to many faults where the builders just cut the wire where they had to get something done and played dumb when we turn up... if it's a straight forward fault, it's never usually an issue... technically you're supposed to charge faults like that, but I always liked to give benefit of doubt (unless you were a ****)

doing it multiple times or cutting through something like a 10 pair or above and that's when people start getting annoyed.

with fibre optics now, I'm not sure people would be so nice though, as best practice is minimal splices so new runs of cable would need to be drawn in.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119767581#Comment_119767581

It devalues your house

indeed, when i found out the house i had gone sale agreed on had a broadband cable attached to the front i immediately dropped my bid by €10k.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119768366#Comment_119768366

Perhaps I have misunderstood, I took the situation to be that a cable was to be strung across the property aerially, between poles.

magicbastarder

based on the wording, i assumed it was tacking the wires directly on:

"trying to attach wires across my house to the adjoining house"

i don't know if the word 'attach' would have been used if it was meant in the cable being strung aerially?

Viscount Aggro

Attach, meaning drill holes in my wall, hang the wire across front of my property to a junction box. They have no alternative way to route the wiring.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769090#Comment_119769090

The cable to your house comes from a pole? So why can't they put another pole in for your neighbor? They have the right it seems to put a cable on your wall so surely they have the right to put a new pole in the pavement anywhere they want?

TAFKA_hometruths_real

the clips used are 5mm width and 20-25mm length ...

typical straight run of cable takes about 5-6 clips across a house... if you can tension it round a bend, you can get away with 3-4.

If you're worried about that devaluing or structurally damaging your house, I think you have much bigger issues at hand other than a cable going across the house.

If you have Sky, their co-ax runs use bigger clips and their method of work is centre brick placement (most others with try follow masonry lines

magicbastarder

i have seen one or two examples of minor damage caused by cables being attached. one was a house where the cables were fixed into the mortar on a red brick a few courses from the top, and the fixings lifted the bricks above.

i just tried finding the house on street view, and if i'm looking at the right one, it looks like the brickwork has been repointed since.

monseiur

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119764846#Comment_119764846

The likes of Eir etc. have very little statute rights in law when it comes to entering private property - they 'survive' mostly on the goodwill of landowners and property owners unlike the ESB who have substantially more power (excuse intended pun) Hence the reason that almost all telecom poles etc. are along public roads.

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769661#Comment_119769661

Iirc the ESB wayleave rights extend to SIRO, giving them an advantage over open-eir/NBI when rolling out fibre.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769090#Comment_119769090

This seems rather odd. When I had fibre installed, it followed the same route as the existing phone line. If across your house is said to be the only route, then does this mean that your neighbours house has no existing phone connection?

SC024

just let them install the cable ffs, it's 1 cable & your neighbour gets broadband. Live & let live ffs dont mind all these talking about solicitors etc etc

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119767581#Comment_119767581

I'm not sure where people get this 'devalues your house's angle. What kind of devaluation do you think applies to your house?

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119779599#Comment_119779599

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119768467/#Comment_119768467

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119779606#Comment_119779606

Random stranger on internet claims to drop bidding price on house by ten k due to cable on front of house.

Yeah, that's someone who is:

Lying

Or

Still doesn't own a house.

This kind of thing does not devalue a house.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119779623#Comment_119779623

I have owned 5 properties, 3 at one time, I have just this year whittled it down to one. I made no claim of a € amount and I made no such claim regarding a cable attached to a property, as I said, I had wrongly assumed an aerial cable stretced across a property.

Now take a deep beath and go for a walk.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119779809#Comment_119779809

You linked to a post in whice you responded to another poster in which the other poster said they reduced their offer by 10K on a house because a cable was on the house.

A cable on a house does not devalue the property as some have said on this thread.

Maybe they need to go for a walk?

magicbastarder

or maybe said poster (i know him and he's sound) was using poetic licence (though some may call it sarcasm) to make a point.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058267890/eir-contractor-trying-to-put-wires-across-my-house

the considerate thing would have been for the neighbour to contact you and advise you of what they are up to… seriously thoughtless of them not too. Probably them AND the installation people..

to be honest there is no perfect solution him being your dentist, but both he and the installers are the ones not behaving appropriately … I’d probably just call the Gardai if the installation team turn up and access your property.