Divorce and remarriage

santana75

Hi, A friend of mine told me today that he is engaged to be married. I love this guy like a brother but he has been married already and is divorced. Not through any fault of his did his first marriage end, his wife was the one who wanted the divorce. There was no infidelity on either of their parts, she just wanted out of the marriage. There were no children involved and now, a few years after that divorce my friend met another girl and now they are engaged. I'm not sure about the "Legality" of this, in a religious way that is. Jesus himself said that if you divorce and remarry you are committing adultery. As far as I can see, the only grounds for re-marriage are if you're spouse was unfaithful to you(or one half of the couple died) but like I said, thats not the case here.

I brought this up with another friend(who is a Christian)and he sees nothing wrong with remarriage. I mean on your wedding day you make a vow, "Til death do us part", so unless one spouse dies or there is adultery, remarriage will result in the sin of adultery, will it not? I really like this guy and his fiancé is lovely, but I'm very conflicted here. I know it doesnt matter what I think ultimately, its his life and I'm not gonna rebuke him or anything like that, but I have this niggling doubt about the whole thing and I do not want him to commit a deliberate sin against God by remarrying.

Anyway what is the letter of the Christian law here, am I wrong does God actually permit remarriage(where there is not adultery)?

Mrs OBumble

Adultery is not grounds for divorce. Not sure where you got the idea it is.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119751684#Comment_119751684

Christianity forum. While you're right and I agree with you, but law is no part of this.

At op, my next sentence is pointless as I don't know the bible. But, how does this effect you? Deliberate sin? Is love a sin? Isn't it said we own what we do?

wildwillow

He is entitled to remarry by state law but not by church law, unless he obtains an annulment from the church.

It is really not your concern, his beliefs may be different or he is putting his happiness before church law.

I don’t think any of us want to return to the days when divorce wasn’t available in our country. It is up to the individual to decide.

What exactly do you think will happen to him as a result of this choice?

gipi

If your friend got an annulment from the church, he is free to marry in the eyes of the church (unless it's specified that he cannot). The annulment deems his first marriage null and void.

The law of the land would require that he divorce too (as far as I know), but that's not what you're asking here.

santana75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119751712#Comment_119751712

I should've said this is one for Christians exclusively, as divorce and remarriage in the secular world is not an issue.

santana75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119751684#Comment_119751684

Here's what I was referring to: "Jesus replied, “Moses permitted divorce only as a concession to your hard hearts, but it was not what God had originally intended.  And I tell you this, whoever divorces his wife and marries someone else commits adultery—unless his wife has been unfaithful"(Matthew 19:8)

Is your friend a Christian? He could seek an annulment, but looks like he’s not bothered.

Your dilemma is not unusual. A lot of religious people will make friends and strictly speaking, per their religious beliefs, those friends are doomed to oblivion or fiery torture.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119751733#Comment_119751733

Exclusively? Do you not want opinions? I was brought up a Catholic. I presume you're asking from the bible stance as opposed to a legal stance?

Also, I'll ask you, are you perfect? Have you lost your virginity before your married? I'm not going to judge. Just look in the mirror. I do.

santana75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119751810#Comment_119751810

You said yourself that you dont know the bible. I just want to be clear, Im not interested in arguing with anyone who isnt a practicing Christian about the issue of marriage, thats a circular debate that will go no place. I mean you obviously are in favor of remarriage, thats your choice to have that view, but if you're more inclined towards the world than towards God then this will go nowhere. And Im not judging my friend, this isnt a case of me casting stones at him, while Im still a sinner. You misunderstand, Im not condemning him, but I am asking other christians who love God, what their take is on this, based of course on what it says in the Bible.

Wezz

"I do not want him to commit a deliberate sin against God by remarrying"

With all due respect, what you want in this is irrelevant.

Is this guy a Christian? If so, he's managed to reconcile his faith with his choices so respect that and be supportive of his decision. If not, your opinions don't apply to him. I know you say you are not judging him but just be sure that you don't give away any hint that you have reservations, you might feel you have his best interests at heart but your views won't be seen that way by most people. You'll come across badly and could ultimately damage the friendship.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119751910#Comment_119751910

Grand. So you don't appreciate love. That's fine. Would your god not smile at two people adore each other? Do we not have free will as described by the testaments?

Is there enough love in this world? I'd say no. Would your god want people people to be happy? Or is it to whip to themselves?

Explain your dominance. Be the fonz or be a self masochistic order.

I'm cool with people with whatever they believe. Are you?

santana75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119751920#Comment_119751920

To be fair I did say that my opinion ultimately doesnt matter to what my friend does, I acknowledged that. He is a Christian. In my original post I did say I was asking in the context of the bible and what it says about divorce and remarriage. In that context is what My friend is doing wrong? You may have a view that dismisses what the bible says, and thats up to you, God is a gentleman, he wont force anything on you, you get to choose. But as far as I can discern from the word of God and what Jesus said in the above verse, divorce and remarrying where there is no adultery, is a sin. And I think all of this comes down to, do we live by the what the word of God or do we "turn the bible sideways and squint" so it appears to approve of what we want, not what God wants. And like I said already, I wont be rebuking my friend, I wont be causing a scene, he's gonna marry this girl even if I did say something. But the reason I brought up the subject was because there is so much divorce and remarriage within the church, that I'm genuinely confused here, because it seems that what Jesus said is clear, yet christians are still doing this. To me it seems like christians are ignoring what Jesus said to suit what they themselves want.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119752041#Comment_119752041

Go the old testament. Does the brother not have the responsibility?

santana75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119751994#Comment_119751994

My Friend I've tried to tell you this already, I'm not going that road with you, where you want to travel goes no place good or constructive. All the best

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119752230#Comment_119752230

So be it. I'm happy on the road I travel.

looksee

Is he proposing to marry in a church? If so the priest/minister presumably knows that he is divorced and is happy to go along with the ceremony in spite of it, ie, interpreting God's wishes on God's behalf. If he is not marrying in a church he will not be making any vows before God and if he can live with his own conscience then that is fine too.

If this question were about what you were proposing to do in a similar situation it would be easier to discuss as we would not be trying to cope with someone else's soul or conscience in a second-hand sort of way. It is quite possible that your friend does not have the exact same religious beliefs that you have, in which case you cannot take it on yourself to be concerned on his behalf. If you are both exactly the same in respect of your beliefs, for example you are both devout, practising Catholics then you have to ask yourself, has he not already thought this through and concluded that it is appropriate for him to do this.

Yes, the bible says that you are your brother's keeper, so from that point of view you may be right to be concerned, and to that extent it may be appropriate for you to raise the subject gently and without judgment or criticism. Either he will wish to discuss it, or not. But be very careful, times and ideas have changed since 2000 years ago and your intervention might not be appreciated.

Wezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119752041#Comment_119752041

I think you have to respect that different people have different interpretations of what it means to be Christian and live their lives accordingly. If he is ok with a second marriage then I think all you can do is try and not worry about what it means for him in the afterlife. You could drive yourself mad with that.

santana75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119752325#Comment_119752325

I think he will be marrying in a church but it wont be catholic he is an evangelical Christian and I'm Catholic. I know there are many protestant denominations and each has their own views on various issues, but I have to come back to the verse I quoted above, to me that seems clear and unambiguous, whether you are catholic or protestant. And does it matter if he were to be married in a catholic church or a protestant one, he would be standing before God regardless, right? He seems alright with getting married again, he seems happy, but still I have to come back to what the bible says about this. Again, regardless of what I think, its not going to change the situation, he is going to get married. The reason I raised the issue is not to stand in his way, I'm asking for my own information about this issue, not solely in relation to my friend, but in a wider context for Christians as I see this happening a lot. If my friend were to say, you know what, God is clear on this issue therefore I wont remarry........this would mean he would remain a single man for the rest of his life(until it is, that his ex wife passes away) and I think this may be the crux of the matter, divorced Christians unwilling to live single so they will not accept what it says in that verse above.

looksee

In the circumstances you have outlined I'm afraid your opinion is of no consequence to your friend. If you both agreed totally on the interpretation and use of the Bible you would not be different denominations. It is precisely because of these interpretations that there are different denominations, and you being of the view that your interpretation/denomination is ultimately the only correct one is where the problem lies.

His view on what he can or cannot do and remain in line with his own beliefs about God's demands/commands is the only one that matters in this situation. Your opinion is irrelevant to his situation, your interpretation of the bible is only relevant to whatever you might do in your life.

Edit: It is arguable that he has already offended God by getting a divorce at all - 'what God has joined together let no-one separate'.

On the other hand it could be argued that his wife divorced him, rather than the other way round, so she is the adulterer. Does it say what the divorced person may do in relation to re-marrying? It all appears to hinge on one partner divorcing the other and re-marrying.

“Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12 And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.”

All the arguments seem to imply that there is a 'guilty' party, the one that instigates the divorce.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119753023#Comment_119753023

She does really.

Us males get out a jail free card? 2nd commandment. The woman is grand. Rather sexist.

Again, not enough love. You do want love.

looksee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119753154#Comment_119753154

I have no idea what you are saying here.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119753188#Comment_119753188

Explain the above in irish law.

looksee

As you said yourself in post 3, Irish (or any other secular) law is no part of this.

smacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119753215#Comment_119753215

Mod: With respect, the OP has very clearly stated they are interested in this issue solely from the perspective of Christian beliefs, and specifically not for a secular point of view, e.g. what the Irish law might say. As such, can I ask you to please stay on topic

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119753241#Comment_119753241

You are correct. And I apologise.

I was going more so for the commandments.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058267722/divorce-and-remarriage

Most Protestants, even devout, committed ones seem to accept divorce as legitimate.

https://www.baylor.edu/mediacommunications/news.php?action=story&story=137892

I suppose at the end of the day the Bible is a book that can be interpreted in various ways...

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119751748#Comment_119751748

You need to do some more study of the text in its original language, rather than your favourite (mis)translation.

Jesus brings the new law.

A lawful marriage cannot be dissolved.

An unlawful can be annulled, which is a church law procedure.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119753360#Comment_119753360

Yes. Many intelligent people here. I'd like to here opinions.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058267722/divorce-and-remarriage

Is he living with his fiancé, or has he slept with her already? Are you concerned about them already committing adultery, regardless of the planned civil marriage?

looksee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119753406#Comment_119753406

You need to do some more study of the text in its original language, rather than your favourite (mis)translation.

That's a rather patronising opinion! Do we take it that you have read the text in its original language and we now have the benefit of your translation? (or mis-translation).

Does it specifically mention that Jesus said annulment was possible, what word did he use to express the idea of annulment?

Before anyone can do a translation of the language of the original text there has to be a translation of the customs and ideas of the time. There is wide scope for different translations of both words and mores, that is why there are so many churches, sects and denominations.