Former bus driver here, cyclists at traffic lights.

d51984

Howdy all, former Dublin Bus driver here. Was having a think about cyclists at red lights. Would it not make more sense to give cyclists a separate green light ahead of main traffic. Say if a bus and a cyclist were at a red together, give the cyclist about a 5 second head start? That way the cyclist is safely away from heavy traffic at lights.

I started cycling myself having always driven and im amazed the amount of near death experiences on a daily basis cyclists around the city face. Im also amazed that my daily commute on a push bike is actually faster than the car.

cython

A decent number (and it feels like increasing) of junctions around Dublin have actually had exactly this added in the last few years in the form of an eye level miniature set of lights being added for bikes that go green earlier. Very prevalent on the quays in particular.

Personally I think it's a good idea as you've outlined as if affords a bit more clearance from the other traffic.

d51984

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741008#Comment_119741008

Well thats good, ive never noticed this. Have to say started cycling recently and its opened my eyes a lot more. I use to be the one giving out about cyclists.

Idleater

What's even better is those cyclists/scooterists who go ahead of the lights (at the SCR junction I use) don't see the advance lights go green and look at those behind who can see the green going past them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741021#Comment_119741021

So many drivers do stupid things to cyclists and have no idea why what they are doing is so dangerous. It would open a few eyes if everyone got to experience what a close pass feels like for a cyclist.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741021#Comment_119741021

Welcome to the club OP, just another couple of million to have their eyes opened to go

d51984

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741093#Comment_119741093

My new daily commute is quicker than driving, im actually amazed by this.

magicbastarder

yep, quite a few junctions near me have lights which go green for cyclists before motorists - albeit not that much before, probably less than a second.

you can see it here:

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3877948,-6.2587275,3a,73.5y,110.15h,78.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spX1_zclUqTD6ybCfwj2gCg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

downtheroad

Plenty of advance boxes for cyclists exist around Dublin. Frequently occupied by vehicles.

magicbastarder

advanced stop boxes have been around for years; but the OP was talking about lights.

micar

When I was cycling to work, I got used to the light sequences and always was ready to set off about 1-2 seconds before the light turned green in order to get ahead of the motor traffic.

It doesn't need to be 5 seconds.....3 seconds is plenty.

micar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741021#Comment_119741021

Anyone learning to drive should be brought out on a bike to experience how vulnerable cyclists really are.

Cookie_Monster

Well most cyclists dont bother to stop at red lights anyway... I say that as someone who cycles extensivly and always stops at lights. Have seen too many times the consequences of not stopping, I don't want to be another statistic.

Wildly Boaring

Ah sure next time you're in town count the cars breaking red lights at any. Junction.

Drivers and cyclists bad as each other. Only one can kill you

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741500#Comment_119741500

the thing about being a cyclist too is that because you're usually sitting right up the front at a junction anyway, you've a better view of the light sequences so would often have a better idea when lights are going to change anyway.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119742072#Comment_119742072

So stupid that this always has to be brought up by someone. Cyclists don't want to die either, if they do break red lights it's because they think it's safe to do so in most cases, and I have seen cases of motorists breaking red lights and killing people in Ireland recently but I've never seen or heard of cyclists harming anyone when breaking red lights, even themselves.

How come any discussion on cars or motorways isn't interrupted with people giving out about motorists speeding or looking at their phones, and this is completely endemic all around the world?

Tombo2001

Interesting how you are only noticing this now that you've started cycling.

I know police forces in other countries do cycling as part of their training, particularly on busy roads, so that basically - they'll know how it feels.

I am sure you'll appreciate now that all those drivers who are total experts at everything relating to cyclists, without ever actually cycling, could do with more than a bit of self examination.

petronius

As a cyclist and a motorist, I think educating both better to be aware and facilitate each other, would also be a help. While having a separate section and lights ahead of the cars, is a help at bigger junctions, it is not going to be implemented everywhere. Common sense and courtesy is to allow a cyclist to go at the junction first, especially if the either or both are turning left, I have cycled and turned left, to be have a car turn so acutely they push me into the kerb. And cyclists and scooterists! should use hand signals, to indicate where they are turning or going on straight etc. Scooterists looking over your right shoulder (often as they are turning) does not indicate you are turning right!

magicbastarder

having never been on a scooter - how stable are they when moving, when you take one hand off the bars to indicate?

Furze99

I think many cyclists have always jumped the lights a bit i.e. taken advantage of the gap between when they go red for other flow and before they go green for cyclist and other traffic.

But call me a cynic if you will, the OP sounds just too convenient for me. Reads like a makey up story to promote an agenda :)

Macy0161

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119742695#Comment_119742695

This used to be the way, but motorists are so often still coming through the red when those going across the junction have green you have to be careful. I'd prefer enforcement of the advance stop lines to be honest - never mind block them, so many motorists are over the the advance stop line it's self.

magicbastarder

i'm always bemused by that 'slowly creeping forwards at lights' some motorists do. it saves zero time. and is probably putting a little extra wear on the clutch.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119742072#Comment_119742072

Yet, according to the stats & facts from people on the ground it's proven that cyclists are the safest & most aware road users in Dublin City.

According to Transdev Ireland (LUAS people) the number of Emergency Brake (EB) applications made by tram drivers can be a useful leading safety indicator as it can show there was potential for an unsafe condition to manifest. In 2020, there was a total of 614 EB applications, which is a substantial reduction from 938 in 2019 (figure 28). TDLR analysis indicates that 43% of these are due to technical issues with the tram or its operation, which can range from blockage of door leaves to faults with the tram control system. The analysis also indicates that 29% are attributable to road vehicles, 21% to pedestrians and 5.7% to cyclists. 

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119742885#Comment_119742885

When the Luas red light camera was running at Queen St, it showed 88% of red light jumping was by motorists, 12% by cyclists. They had to switch off the camera as Gardai couldn't keep up with the numbers of fines and penalty points to be issued.

noelfirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741049#Comment_119741049

Particularly at that junction, where those advance lights are a Godsend, if those guys who pull forward end up blocking the rest of the stream as a result, it might just be me but it takes a fair bit of self-control to not want to yell at them as you edge past...

bikeman1

I cycle to and from work. I know the "pinch" spots and can guarantee that most days there will be an issue at one or more of those pinch spots. The start ahead lights are great. I do similar when they don't exist by watching the amber light come on, watch the road and away a second or two ahead of cars. When you cycle you are infinitely more away of the traffic, lights and people around than driving. I say that as a driver too.

It is amazing what some white lines (not the gold standard) do for drivers. I have two sections which don't have white lines and in one case does again for a bit and then not. Once the white lines on the drivers left are gone, many tend to pull left towards the gutter and cut off you cycling (very dangerous) or don't leave a way past in traffic. And i'm talking about a lane where there is plenty of space for a bike lane and the car to drive. Just drivers totally oblivious.

Another great one is cars driving like mad, doing a big overtake move revving like mad, only to be stopped about 300m down the road in traffic and you sail by. Some drivers don't read the road and traffic ahead of them and unnecessarily drive dangerously.

All of this happens daily on my commute. Needless to say, I am a FAR more considered driver in towns and cities as a result.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741008#Comment_119741008

Are you talking about the ones that give cyclists a nanasecond or two of green before the main traffic green, like on Portobello Bridge for traffic heading into Rathmines?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058267354/former-bus-driver-here-cyclists-at-traffic-lights

You'd have to teach cyclists to stop at red lights first. :)

cython

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119743011#Comment_119743011

I don't know that specific one, but I know of several on the quays that afford several seconds of a headstart. From your tone, I have to ask, do you take issue with the entire concept, or merely one flawed implementation that you elect to call out?

magicbastarder

i know several around D9 that probably give less than a second head start. i don't think i've seen any yet that give several seconds, but i rarely cycle closer to the city centre than griffith avenue.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119743054#Comment_119743054

I don't think I've seen the concept as you describe it working, so I'm not really able to comment on it. The one in Dundrum village, for cyclists who have come up the contraflow bike lane is similar, about a second before the main traffic gets green also.