Smart meter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119802727#Comment_119802727

I doubt your electric company gives a shite if you’re employed or not.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119802727#Comment_119802727

“Monke had spent the last 6 hours trying to pull the plum off himself while viewing 4K videos on a selection of one handed websites”

Potential-Monke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119802943#Comment_119802943

I mean, I'll tell them that myself if they want, whether working or not! Also, not trying. Successfully.

KildareP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119802376#Comment_119802376

They're cheaper off-peak compared to 24-hour or flat rate tariffs if you can shift your usage into the 2300-0800 timeframe.

However you could always have done this using a day/night or nightsaver tariff on the older digital meters for decades.

And that's where the rip-off is happening now.

Compare the traditional, decades old day/night plans against these shiny new smart time of use plans and the smart plans work out more expensive in every case, unless you're a particularly low energy user, since the standing charge is a bit less on the smart plans.

For example, Energia is 43.6c per unit and €236.62 per year on 24-hour plan versus:

"Old" Day/Night... Smart Meter

€296.41.............. €236.62................. Standing Charge per year

47.77c................ 52.52c................... Day Rate 8AM-5PM

47.77c................ 57.53c................... Peak Rate 5PM-7PM

47.77c................ 52.52c................... Day Rate 7PM-11PM

13.75c................ 28.17c................... Night Rate 11PM-2AM

13.75c................ 12.64c................... Night Rate 2AM-6AM

13.75c................ 28.17c................... Night Rate 6AM-8AM

SSE Airtricity is 43.41c per unit and €240.97 per year on 24-hour plan versus:

"Old" Day/Night... Smart Meter

€309.56............. €240.97.................. Standing Charge per year

44.34c............... 45.32c.................... Day Rate 8AM-5PM

44.34c............... 57.27c.................... Peak Rate 5PM-7PM

44.34c............... 45.32c.................... Day Rate 7PM-11PM

27.52c............... 29.4c..................... Night Rate 11PM-8AM

Once you've had a smart meter installed, you can't get the old day/night tariff, even if you haven't activated the smart meter - ESBN won't allow it and this is fully sanctioned by the CRU.

Once you go onto any smart meter plan, then you can't go back onto a 24-hour plan either.

It's a captive market and the providers are making sure they're building a price uplift in as people are gradually being forced into these smart tariffs with no way back.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119802045#Comment_119802045

I have an email stating there is a fault with some of the new metres and they reinstalled the old mechanical one in my house.

Unless they are lying to me and telling me there is a fault with their new metres when there isn’t.

Now there’s an interesting conspiracy you have just made up.

Nermal

Why should I be penalised for my consumption pattern? I'm not the one who decided to start using intermittent renewable energy sources.

If you want to connect them to the grid and sell them to me, you should bear the cost of turning them into reliable, constant and cheap electricity.

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119802651#Comment_119802651

I am one of the lucky few then. With a smart meter I wouldn't be even getting half as much per unit exported and some parasitic reseller (I squared capital or the right honourable Sir Philips Davies) would be charging a huge margin on me sending power to the neighbours. You will get better rates at present on an ordinary day/night meter.

They will indeed be able to tell you are on the dole/wfh/ordinary commuter by analysing patterns from your meter. Especially with good training data fed into AI algorithm. There may be false positives/negatives but they will be low

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119764090#Comment_119764090

Nope. It happened to me with a brand new build. The builders put the house on a smart plan and now I'm stuck with that. Electric Ireland gave me a 24 hour tariff but it's still split into day/peak/night so they'll probably up the peak rate.

Gooser14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119803292#Comment_119803292

Looking through various posts on smart meters it looks like you still have the smart meter replaced with a day/night meter. I have been on a day/night meter for over 20 years & I understand it won't be replaced with a smart meter which I'm pleased about.

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119803183#Comment_119803183

So what are they going to do with that data? This is tinfoil hat territory.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119803369#Comment_119803369

Yup. MCC02 (Day Night) customers are not eligible for a smart meter.

I'm thankful for that too, as my rates (28c day 7c night fixed until mid next year) are not available to MCC16 customers

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119803835#Comment_119803835

Use it themselves by limiting your credit, sell it to advertisers. This is not tinfoil hat this is happening with other data every day of the week and has become fairly normal unfortunately. Obviously they won't sell it straight away but eventually there will be a plan that gives you a few % discount in return for Google or someone else getting your data, then the discount will slowly disappear and the data collection becomes normalised. Companies will always do all they can get away with or slightly more to make a few bob.

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119803901#Comment_119803901

I'm well aware of data mining on the internet. Data mining from a smart meter is a different thing altogether. I suggest having a read.

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2022/si/37/made/en/pdf

I'll happy lodge a data request for my information and where it has been shared after having a smart meter for a few months. I doubt it will have been sold on.

Ger Roe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119804518#Comment_119804518

Data won't be sold on yet.... these things take time to bed in and be accepted... or forgotten. As the other poster said, there could be an incentive discount applied to convince you to offer up your data - just like we all do every day when we click terms and conditions on the web, that prevent us from doing anything, unless we agree to join the club.

I am old enough to remember when bank ATM cards first were introduced and they were promoted as transaction fee free and that they were going to drive the move to much cheaper banking, because the processing costs and associated labour costs were going to be much lower for the banks. In time... it all changed and we now get charged more for less services .... no one around at the time remembers that it was supposed to be cheaper banking for all , and the younger folk think that this present model of operation is way it always worked. I am even old enough to remember getting paid interest on my savings, because it was a fundamental commercial principle that the banks paid you for the use of the money that you left on deposit with them.

Companies that are working to rip you off more effectively, play a very long game. Be it banks, insurance, broadband, or energy companies .... they are not operating for the benefit of the consumer and fanfare announced operational 'advances' that they introduce, are purely for their benefit but usually dressed up as a temporary gain for the customer, to ensure initial buy in. It doesn't last .....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119807429#Comment_119807429

I haven't paid a cent in bank charges for the past 20 years.

I have however paid the various government taxes and duties on using my cheques (about 1 a year) credit and atm cards.

And frankly I couldn't give a turkey's gizzard if the electric companies sell the details of my consumption to the man in the moon, Mick Wallace and Joe Biden's granny!

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119807429#Comment_119807429

So data being sold by electric companies is purely hypothetical.

Gotcha.

blueser

Have I got this right; if your meter is located externally, they don't need to enter the property to do any of the necessary work?

Gooser14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119808620#Comment_119808620

That is correct.

blueser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119808632#Comment_119808632

Thanks.

s8n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119765506#Comment_119765506

Does the tinfoil scratch your head ?

padd b1975

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119765506#Comment_119765506

OK then...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119807429#Comment_119807429

Less services on cards now?

yeah sure I remember ATM cards, you could pay in store, tap and go, use it online, use it at petrol stations.

todays cards all you can do is withdraw from an ATM!

No wait…

Ger Roe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810842#Comment_119810842

Less banking services generally.

Fighting Tao

Let’s just say that the data is sold on, please explain to what benefit for the provider, and to what detriment of the customer. Who would want to buy the minimal amount of data and why?

The data would be anonymised. Therefore they’d be saying that customer ABC used 3 units at 4am, 1 at 7am, etc. There wouldn’t be specific locations, names, etc provided. There is eff all data to sell and companies are not queuing up to find out that Johnny used 10 units a day and at what times. It really is conspiracy theory level thinking that the world wants to track you through your energy usage.

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811084#Comment_119811084

The real benefit would be for the likes of google if they manage to merge it with your identity and other data they collect on you but even anonymised data can be used to give "consumer insights" sorted by region. If you suddenly stop using your 3 units at 4 am they might infer that your dishwasher is after packing up and you'll see a lot of Google ads for a new one. A dishwasher has a power consumption profile that would be vastly different to another heavy appliance like a washing machine or electric chainsaw that uses the same number of units.

You'd have a fairly good idea of what someone is doing for the day just by looking at a graph of their power usage. Data is the new oil and a lot of companies are wanting to pay for it. Companies are willing to pay a couple of euros to google for having the right person clicking on an online ad once.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811185#Comment_119811185

Yeah…that’s not going to happen. Google will not get access to the data and they won’t be linking anonymised data with individuals. Conspiracy theory forum is thataway ->

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811379#Comment_119811379

Maybe not this year but it will come. The CRU will eventually bow to pressure. New and "innovative" products that allow your data to be sold will come onto the market, there will be a next generation smart meter that uploads data for every second rather than 15/30 minutes. For the vast majority of users there is no advantage to having a smart meter

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811492#Comment_119811492

While posting here in the last 10 minutes data companies have probably gleaned more useful data about you than they would get from a years use of a smart meter (if data is sold).

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811529#Comment_119811529

Just as well I'm posting under a silly alias and using a PiHole to stop most of the tracking. You are also seriously underestimating the value of a years worth of smart meter data. You can build up a whole profile on a family's lifestyle based on that alone. Advertising to someone based on smartmeter data would be vastly more effective than firing out random ads like on tv/radio in that you pretty much know what they're doing for most of the day

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811557#Comment_119811557

Your mobile phone and broadband providers can already do that in far more detail. Almost 24/7 365 days of the year. Smart meter data is not needed for it.