New Italian government with fascist roots

skimpydoo

The new Italian government is right wing and the main party in it has fascist origins. The media is quick to state the lead parties roots but that shouldn't be a big issue to us in Ireland as one of the parties in our government has fascist origins too. So why the big issue over this?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058265018/new-italian-government-with-fascist-roots

But she's not fascistic.

She's at most, centre-right - albeit more centre-right than we'd expect in Ireland and the UK.

But if you examine her positions, there's nothing that could be described as radical or extreme. Sometimes we may disagree with her policies, but that doesn't mean she belongs to Neo-Nazism.

Danzy

Working class woman leading a working class party.

Bit of a stretch to pretend they are a fascist movement in any shape or form. What their grandparents did is not relevant to now.

TheValeyard

Election season, isn't everyone either a fascist or a communist these days?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058265018/new-italian-government-with-fascist-roots

One of Europe's largest countries electing a fascist is a matter of huge concern. Of course, conservatives will downplay this as much as possible.

ahnowbrowncow

Seems that anyone that isn't 'far left' is described as 'far right' and vice versa. Shame to see national broadcasters like RTE and BBC continually sow such political tribalism.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668921#Comment_119668921

She's not a fascist.

Let me repeat that: she is not a fascist.

skimpydoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668937#Comment_119668937

She is Euro sceptic.

igCorcaigh

Regardless at the labels thrown at her, I would like to know why people voted this way? Any analysis there?

Manach

It would seem that any deviating from the Guardian newspaper's letter page might acquire the sobriquet of Fascist/Alt-right etc.

AMKC

I don't she here lasting too long. No Government in Italy lasts long because the whole country is a right mess and so badly run. She can make all the promises she wants but facts are she will not be able to do half of them. Italy just in too much debt and the markets do not trust lending to it. We had the Piigs in the 2008 economic crash well the next one will have a UK and I anyway. I wonder who else will join them and what the acronym will be?

thegame983

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668961#Comment_119668961

This.

'Far right' basically just means 'normal' in 2022

skimpydoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668969#Comment_119668969

The UK is royally fucked and there is a good chance the IMF will come calling.

thegame983

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668955#Comment_119668955

People don't want endless dingys full of african migrants arriving on their shores

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668967#Comment_119668967

It's the old Eurosceptic that gets them every time.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668949#Comment_119668949

Italy's place in the EU has always seemed temporary. The country's a mess. Always has been. It's always teethering on the edge financially which is a problem for us being in a currency union with them.

It's great for Germany though. The more financially delinquent countries the better as that keeps the currency down which helps their exports.

Until Italy needs a bailout of course.

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668996#Comment_119668996

Always laugh when people say low euro will benefit countries that export stuff.

Isn't it great that countries are exporting stuff and not sitting on their holes selling houses to each other at crazy prices, creating no actual value, forcing their kids to emigrate as they can't even afford to rent.

Markus Antonius

Where did the "ALT-RIGHT" boogeyman go that everyone was busting a blood vessel over a few years back?

That man is single handedly responsible for 99% of the leftist governments that put us in the horrid crisis we are in right now.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668978#Comment_119668978

Yes it sure is and they have Lizz Truss to thank for that.

Jinglejangle69

Another party elected on immigration matters.

Great to see.

Hopefully another one next.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668996#Comment_119668996

Yes the EU might be better off without Italy and Italy might finally sort there crap out if they leave. Saying that do it would be sad if it happened and it would be seen as a failure by the EU and for the Euro so that would not be good for the EU or for us.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668904#Comment_119668904

I think accord to some… anyone who is seen to be of the opinion that mass immigration is a bad thing for Europe and it’s citizens now equals a fascist. 😵‍💫🤣

jam_mac_jam

I'm not really seeing how it's facist and I have seen them described as such. I think the meaning of fascism has changed and it just means right wing. Everyone should calm down the likelihood is that they will be gone in a few months.

It probably shouldn't but the focus on God and family always makes me nervous. It generally isn't as wholesome as it sounds or should be.

Seeing Berlusconi to the fore in Italian politics again.............

AllForIt

Ursula has vays ov dealing vit deese kinds of situvations, I hear.

ahnowbrowncow

Italy will be big trouble in the next decade due to the age of its population, which is the second oldest in the world. They've also had one of the lowest birth rates in Europe for the last 30+ years.

This brings numerous problems, lower numbers in the workforce which means less people adding to the economy which turns into a vicious cycle as a slower economy has less employment opportunities and in turn leads to a brain drain as young people emigrate.

With less people working it also means less people contributing to pension funds whilst simultaneously more people than ever will be claiming pensions. An aging population, coupled with increased longevity bring other problems such as increased health care costs and huge strains put on hospitals, many of which already have staffing shortages.

This has been forecast for a long time now and with a number of European countries in a not too dissimilar boat, I'm not sure how it's going to pan out.

jace_da_face

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668996#Comment_119668996

Let's not forget Italy developed to be a hugely successful manufacturing hub after the Second World War. The industrial triangle of the north was the European workhorse. The Italian economy was more competitive than Germany's throughout the nineties. But then the Euro happened. And that's when Italy's current problems began.

Let's hope the new Italian leader is not as right wing as Rodger Waters when it come to Ukraine.

Snooker Loopy

Seems some posters here want an extreme form of political correctness to be used when talking about fascists. ie. that fascists shouldn't get called fascist, in order to spare the feelings of the fascists.

These posters hate straight talking, they're tell it like it isn't merchants.

It's pure snowflakery.

Fascists like Meloni and Salvini are fascist. Call them what they are. Tell it like it is.

Here's historian Michael Beschloss:

https://twitter.com/BeschlossDC/status/1574458620477149191

New Italian PM says “we will never be slaves…at the mercy of financial speculators.” Sounds just like 1930s in Italy and Germany. No thanks for the memories.

Mussolini enjoyed publicly referring to Jewish people as “financial speculators” who needed to be controlled.

When a Fascist leader speaks, whether in Europe or America, never brush aside what you are hearing as meaningless rhetoric. Do not fail to learn from the history of the 1930s.

History of the 1930s shows that fascist leaders in the United States have been very eager to link up and pool resources, often in secret, with fascist leaders in Europe. Monitor carefully and beware.

And please never take it at face value when and if fascist leaders in America or Europe tell you that they have no personal or political animus toward Jews or other minority groups in society. Too many examples in history tell us the opposite.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669300#Comment_119669300

Not up on Italian politics what part of the manifesto contains fascist language ?

lawrencesummers

The problem with her is that she is an outsider, shes not been in the golden circles before and might actually stand for the ordinary Italian person.

while people are quick to label her as far-right nobody is putting forward any policies that are backing up that statement.

Curbing immigration might be the one thats hearlded as being far right but people dont seem to have a problem with Australia, Nz, USA, Canada etc etc etc when they put barrier to immigration in place.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669308#Comment_119669308

She doesnt like the immigrants, which means she's Hitler

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669355#Comment_119669355

Ah kk. I wonder do they do the old We were immigrants in the USA in Italy like every thread on boards Mentions the Irish were.... 🤔

NSAman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668949#Comment_119668949

Isn’t that called being a fascist and ultra maga nowadays ?

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669375#Comment_119669375

Yes they hate when people leave the club. it's like hotel california you can check out anytime you like but you can never leave.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669121#Comment_119669121

No, you're just spouting both sides bollox.

They're fascists, plain and simple. They've even had Mussolini's grandchildren run under them. No amount of whataboutery changes this.

Miadhc

https://www.israelhayom.com/2022/09/16/i-believe-that-the-existence-of-israel-is-vital-and-i-will-make-every-effort-to-invest-in-greater-cooperation-between-our-countries/

Il Duce is spinning in his grave

Miadhc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669437#Comment_119669437

Would they be his pro LGBT granddaughters?

Or is there other ones that you can show us examples of their fascist views?

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669465#Comment_119669465

Don't be silly, Fascism is carried in the genes. I'm sure this chap will be along with his calipers to show that the similariies between Il Duces skull and those of his progeny are a guarantee that Italy will soon invade Abyssinia

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669336#Comment_119669336

Not going along with neo liberalism is now called fascism.

HerrKapitan

In case you missed it, RTE need to remind you that Viktor Orban sent a message of congratulations to Meloni. So Meloni=Orban.

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669300#Comment_119669300

you quote a man who is a new york times columnist , hardly unbiased especially given his obsession with trump (so much some politico claims he is radicalised on the issue)

he isn't rational.

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669437#Comment_119669437

as @Danzy rightly said above, anybody who rejects neo liberalism is now fascist.

the women believes in traditional family values and Italy (rather than globalism and EU structure) and (oddly for a fascist) in Israel yet you think that is akin to il Duce or nazism sweeping Europe again.

I get it , your posts are always very left - you don't like her and what she stands for and thats fine but your accusations are insane.

If you believe what you post I think you've lost your mind. fascists everywhere :rolleyes:

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669458#Comment_119669458

Actually Mussolini wasn't close to Hitler on the whole "master race", anti semitism thing. Quite the opposite and publicly too. He considered it non scientific nonsense, his military refused to help deport Italian Jews to camps and he got static from the German nazis about it. Mussolini reserved his racism for Africans where he was pretty clear about it.

EDIT and caveat, he wasn't following the German doctrine until later on when he needed their support and then rowed in behind it.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669563#Comment_119669563

I'll believe it when I see proof. Rolleyes and strawmen do not make not a convincing argument.

Boggles

Italian governments have the shelf life of a packet of ham, they also have notoriously bad politicians.

The current flavour of the week was anti EU until some adult pointed out they need 200 billion in recovery funds.

Nothing like lots of digits to temper the hubris.

She can still bleet on that gays are bad though, yawn.

Doubt anyone will remember her name in 18 months.

rogber

Italy is a corrupt mess of a country living off past glories and no government there lasts very long. I wouldn't worry too much about her, the country will go centrist or centre left again when she fails to deliver on her promises

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669592#Comment_119669592

Yep, they change governments with changes in the weather. It's a national sport and it doesn't really matter what wing the governiing party are. If her and her party have any hope of staying in power, they'll have to fix a lot of problems they promised to, or it'll be someone new in power. They're wedded to the EU, like it or not, so that's a non starter. Italy's problems are many and complex, so barring minor miracles they'll not be in power for long.

Still stihl waters 3

Has anyone asked why she was voted in, it's all well and good condemning Italians about voting in a "a far right party" but why did the people make that decision

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669639#Comment_119669639

The same reason they all get voted in over there, populous promises they have no chance of fulfilling.

Government collapses rinse and repeat.

70 governments in 77 years.

Pa ElGrande

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOMnwFe5aF8

Why are they ripping down the EU flag? Back in 2011, the EU took out Berlusconi, then the dodgy banks scandal. Monti & Draghi are both regarded as the EUs men. This is partly about nationalism in the face of the EU and a weak German state. German industry is being brought to its knees by a combination of lockdowns followed by inflation and its dependence on Russian gas. Draghi is the author of the negative interest rates policy that the ECB followed for a long time, and the hollowing out of the bond market for EU sovereign debt.

The Plot to Topple Berlusconi (2014)

This is not the first such revelation. Lorenzo Bini-Smaghi, Italy’s former member on the European Central Banks’s executive board, suggested in his book last summer that the move to topple Berlusconi (and replace him with ex-EU commissioner Mario Monti) was decided after he began threatening a return to the country’s national currency, the Lira, in meetings with EU leaders.

And Monti himself confirmed in an interview with Financial Times in February that he was at the centre of a secret plan to replace Berlusconi months before he was deposed. A plan run by Giorgio Napolitano, who as the country’s President is essentially ‘Europe”s – as well as America’s – man in Rome.

source

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdpUUs8oA2s

Note that Mario Monti takes in that clip care to frame them, not as center right, but as right wing. That narrative was parroted by RTE six-one news yesterday evening. Instead of simply reporting that elections had taken place, the RTE person interviewing Paddy Agnew was keen to emphasize the "far right" narrative several times during the interview.

Run Forest Run

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668921#Comment_119668921

Sure just chuck them into the naughty corner, and wag our collective western finger at them disparagingly until they start playing nice...

It's worked like a charm with all the other "bad boy" nations in the world, why change strategy now!? 😉

If Italy were a boards poster, they'd probably get banned from their own thread for holding the "wrong sort of opinions".