Iranian Women Protest and Burn Headscarves

donaghs

There seems to be a genuine uprising by women in Iran over the enforcement of headscarf/hijab rules on women. Sparked by the death of a 22 year women in the custody of the morality police. For allegedly wearing a headscarf in an “improper” way.

17 dead in Iran as protests grow following death of woman after morality police arrest (thejournal.ie)

NBC - Iran Protests Intensify As Women Burn Headscarves In Defiance Of Police - YouTube

Some reports saying the impact of this rippling beyond younger liberal people: Iran’s conservative women join backlash over enforcement of hijab rule | Financial Times (ft.com)

It shows how much we take for granted the freedoms we have. People in Ireland are free to choose whether or not wear such items.

Which bring us to Ireland and the Hijab. I think its odd that its embraced and promoted by supposedly "liberal" parts of society. This is very visible in coverage of International Hijab Day this year:

Women and girls in Ireland celebrate World Hijab Day (rte.ie)

World Hijab Day: ‘The hijab is a part of me, it’s my identity’ – The Irish Times

World Hijab Day event held at WIT to promote inclusion and break barriers | News | Waterford Institute of Technology

That week, Senator Eileen Flynn, in the Senate said Hijab Day "should be a national celebration within Irish society as well". I think she meant to say it should be a national holiday in Ireland ,but she was running through her speech very rapidly.

Contrary to some of those news stories, the Hijab is not actually required by the Islam, i.e. the Koran. Rather, that they should dress "modestly".

So I think the ideal situation is have tolerance for the hijab, if its a personal choice. Basically it should be compared with other patriachal religions which enforce rules on woman, e.g. conservative Catholic sects. If conservative Catholic women wish to veil their hair, and never wear pants - then that's their business. But we should not allow them to force others to do this, and we should certainly not celebrate it.

Proper Dress Code Attire For Mass | Traditional Catholic Femininity 🌹🙏🌹 (tradcatfem.com)

StrawbsM

Sadly, the regime in Iran has cut off the internet for most people. I’d watched some of the videos over the past few days and a real movement had started. The women were being supported by men their own age and also their elders.

#MahsaAmini

Videos from Iran are few and far between now and I’m unsure if the comments I read are coming directly from Iran either. The regime could be doing untold atrocities as I type Anonymous were advising how to bypass the internet ban.

StrawbsM

Anon Ops is a good for any updates though

https://twitter.com/anonopsse/status/1573275138686177282?s=46&t=MKxOGB83oJOgmRr8fFVt4w

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058264559/iranian-women-protest-and-burn-headscarves

I think its odd that its embraced and promoted by supposedly "liberal" parts of society.

Isn’t that the very definition of liberal though, as opposed to the idea of only permitting ideas and behaviour which suit a person’s own standards? It really shouldn’t be any surprise then that people who hold liberal values would wish to celebrate and promote the wearing of the hijab by those women who want to wear it, and at the same time are opposed to the idea of women being forced to wear it. It’s not actually a double standard.

What IS a double standard though, is a society which claims to uphold liberal values, but only those that are in line with their ideals, ie countries like France which have introduced bans on women and girls wearing traditional clothing worn by women and girls of their culture.

It’s also easy to suggest that religions are patriarchal, given your point of view, but that doesn’t really make any sense from the point of view of people who don’t share your understanding. Theirs is that in Christianity, the Church is feminine, referred to in Christianity as the Bride of Christ. It also can’t have escaped your attention that there are dress codes in all religions for both men and women, exemplified by constant references to the clergy as ‘men in dresses’ 😁

I dunno what Eileen Flynn was thinking either, but ‘celebration’ does fit the context better than the idea of suggesting she might have been calling for a national holiday; it was probably intended to ape the New Zealand Prime Minister’s efforts to show solidarity with Muslim women -

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-newzealand-shootout-headscarves-idUSKCN1R71Q9

Some praised her actions, others not so much 😬

FWIW, Navaratri begins on 26th of this month -

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navaratri

Be lots of Indian men and women in Ireland wearing some, interesting… get-up 😁

Odhinn

Be lots of Indian men and women in Ireland wearing some, interesting… get-up

As long as they don't try turning up in the pub in their jim jams and fluffy slippers like some of the locals, live and let live.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119656851#Comment_119656851

I have never seen it In Ireland "on TV yes" i'm sure around Diwali it happens. Not even seen one Sikh "only on tv again". All my local Indian restaurants are Pakistani. Seen tones of Women in head to toe black though not by choice. As their walking behind the husband. Quite an odd statement to make TBH.

This is great news, and I've been following this story for well over the past week.

The problem, if it's a problem at all, is that protests have come and gone over the past few years in Iran.

This wave of protests may, as in the recent past, die down and all goes back to "normal".

Hopefully that's not the case. Hopefully they strike for freedom. Hopefully they depose the theocratic autocrats of Iran, once and for all.

rogber

Great admiration for the protestors but I expect it'll end in more bloodshed and oppression as usual in hellish countries run by Islamic nutcases.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119657435#Comment_119657435

It's mad how backwards they have gone. They women were able to dress like 50s USA dresses and all that.

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119657464#Comment_119657464

Mad and very sad. Makes you realise that for all Ireland's imperfections it has at least evolved away from that oppressive woman-hating religious sh*te and we're very lucky not to live in a society still ideologically rooted in the dark ages

Yurt2

Anyone want to take bets when we'll get our first poster insisting it's all a CIA orchestrated plot?

lumphammer2

I just hope Iranian women and Iranian people in general get rid of this evil regime ... you got a corrupt king Khamenei and a corrupt prince (his son) calling the shots ... oppressing the people with voodoo mumbo jumbo ... a useless president called Raisi who serves no purpose apart from making it look like 'democracy' .. the president won a rigged election and is a silent, useless tub of lard with 0 charisma and 0 ability and cannot think for himself ... exactly what the Khamenei clan want. This Raisi refused to talk to CNN's Amanpour because he knew he could not argue any valid point ... but gave the excuse because Amanpour would not wear a headscarf ... Amanpour is Iranian and Raisi dodged the interview because he'd be asked tough questions that could get him into trouble with both Shah and Prince Khamenei ..

Khamenei has been in power for 41 years ... from 1983 to date he has imposed so-called Hijab on women and has made sure he continued to rule Iran as a wartime economy decades after the Iran Iraq war was over ... he has surrounded himself with paramilitaries and terrorists to intimidate his people. He is far from the 'enemy' of the West he claims to be ... he is enemy of moderates in the West and in Iran. He has many pals on the world stage both openly (Putin) and covertly (Trump, whose sanctions on Iran killed off his moderate challengers) ... he is connected in with a global far right movement of fellow neo-Nazi types and his regime is a model for likeminded people in America to form a Christian hate state ... The Handmaid's Tale and other dystopias are based on it ... David Duke of the Tea Party/KKK visited Tehran many times despite his organisation publicly hating Iran (but when more moderate governments like Khatami and Rouhani ruled there of course!!) ...

By all accounts Iran's far right kingpin is very ill ... and his pal Putin is otherwise occupied with his mess in Ukraine .. his other pal Trump is out of power. Now is the time for Iran's people to strike Iran's current far right Neo-Nazi voodoo regime with a fatal blow ..

lumphammer2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119657475#Comment_119657475

Ireland is definitely one of the better countries ... it is far from perfect but is streets ahead of nearly every other country especially those in the Middle East/ex USSR area ...

Iran is a mess due to many factors ... not least Western idiots such as Trump intervening with negative policy just as Iran's government was moderating ... hardliners have been given help by clowns like Trump when they most needed it and have given this regime medicine when it was dying ..

As bad as Iran may be it is paradise compared to its even worse neighbours ... you have warzone Iraq complete with ISIS ... you have Taliban Afghanistan and if that wasn't enough you have ISIS there too ... the oppressive Saudi Arabia lies to the south with a savage version of Islam worse than Iran and only marginally better than Taliban ... and to the north you got 2022 version Putin's Russia .... and another war potentially in Armenia/Azerbaijan ...

The world is sick at the moment .. thank god Ireland is located well away from these places and is in better shape economically than most ... but we cannot take anything for granted .. Iran too used to be once a great country and so too were Russia and America ... all it takes is some ultra nationalist far right idiot with a following of misguided simpletons to ruin things ...

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119657690#Comment_119657690

It's not something that even crossed my mind, but why would that be viewed so negatively even it was said? It's not so long ago that the Americans had their own puppet ruling Iran, so it's not so radical to assume that they might want another. It's likely not the case here, but it's not like the CIA doesn't have a history with stuff like that.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119658763#Comment_119658763

Primarily because the CIA doesn't have the power to trick the Iranian morality police into beating a woman to death and get tens of thousands of people on the streets.

Sometimes (most of the times actually), it's sh*tty misgoverened countries.

People have a schoolboy conspiratorial view of what intelligence agencies are actually capable of.

And the sh*ttier the government, the more likely they are to hallucinate the CIA in their corknflakes in the morning.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119658182#Comment_119658182

Waah Orange man bad.

Iran has been the way Iran is since I was in shorts and compromising with them never improved their behaviour. If the Iranians get rid of this regime it will be replaced in a few years by a very similar regime.

By and large, you get the government that you deserve.

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119658182#Comment_119658182

Good post.

EOQRTL

I am surprised that there is no thread yet to discuss what is happening there.

Iran protests: Death toll rises to 76 as crackdown intensifies - rights group

- Started at 1, stands at 76.

- Iran's president, Ebrahim Raisi, has cancelled an interview in New York with the veteran CNN correspondent Christiane Amanpour

- People have been burning/cutting their ID cards outside of Iran

All because of the death of 22 year old Mahsa Amini in the hands of morality police for showing hair.

The modern history of Iran (from the CIA seeking to topple Mossadegh onwards) is a tragedy, cumlinating in the living nightmare of the current ultra-oppressive dictatorship.

One of the great historical nations stuck in a cesspit of religious sh1theadery.

Rory Stewart was very interesting on this in the podcast yesterday. Saying Iran is essentially two countries - a highly educated and relatively progressive young urban population and an extreme conservative rural one. The latter having complete control over all aspects of the state and security though.

Hard to see how they give up that control without it getting very messy.

cezanne

It never fails to strike me as to how much religion really hate the female of the species.

Ninthlife

Religion (pick any of them) has always really been about a way to control..going all the way back to Mayan/Incas and even before

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119681481#Comment_119681481

And how women were revered in pagan times, the religious must have seen women as a threat

cezanne

I dunno but they definitely have a very big gripe against them. Perhaps its the fact that they have the children and that the men must submit on some levels to get offspring, its such a definite thread in all religions its uncanny.

rogber

The three big monotheistic religions: all absolute fountains of stupidity.

What's happening in Iran is a tragedy and I don't hold out much hope for change in the near future. Don't know what else there is to say ....

Relax brah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119681496#Comment_119681496

You cannot compare Islamic traiditions with regards to female rights to Christian ones. Yes, the new testament had some colouration to Islam with extreme measures againt womens rights but it has evolved today in the western world.

Islam is still only 500 years old, it has yet to evolve and they are still living off the koran/hadith doctrine - which they shouldn't be.

Brussels Sprout

The sad thing is that I cannot see this ending in any other way than the protesters being slaughtered by the men with the guns.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119681497#Comment_119681497

Oh aye, pagan times, you say? Gwan share some new age bolloxology with us about that.

Ninthlife

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119681533#Comment_119681533

I wasnt comparing traditions with regards to female rights. I was judt being general in thst religion has been used as a means of controlling the masses (no pun intended)

Relax brah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119681539#Comment_119681539

Agreed, particularly in poor countries but Iran is not poor. They need to accept change and adapt, the UN will be allover this

Ninthlife

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119681551#Comment_119681551

As the OP pointed out its the conservative rural regime having the majority of control. I can see accepting change and taking advice from the west as going down like a lead balloon. Will be interestimg to see how it all pans out

Relax brah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119681620#Comment_119681620

When Mahsa Amini was pronounced dead, the government claimed they had nothing to do with it, UNTIL her CT scan was leaked and it became obvious that she died as a result of severe blows to her head, for lack of proper hijab.

You know what the government did next? To prove they didn't kill Mahsa, They started killing more people!!! This is the reality of how brutal the Islamic republic of IR is treating their citizens, specifically women.

Yes taking advise from the west may go down like a led balloon however people in Iran are begging everyone around the world to share the story of what is happening, using social media. Especially due to the internet blackout over there. A quick google, "what can I do to help the protesters in Iran" would likely provide many specific suggestions.

If we choose to do nothing, it is what it is, but it isn't true that there's nothing we can do. Share the news. Talk about Mahsa Amini. Trust me. We (the west) can help iran ALOT

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119681533#Comment_119681533

Yeah, you wouldn't get a "Christian country" imprisoning and abusing women without trial for alleged "immorality"

Oh wait.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119681551#Comment_119681551

If they don't give a sh!t about what the UN says about enriching uranium, why would they give a sh!t about what the UN says about women's rights?

The Irish government completely ignored the criticism we got from the UN about women's rights for decades.

Relax brah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119681789#Comment_119681789

You wouldn’t get Christian’s blowing themselves up either in the name of god

Relax brah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119681796#Comment_119681796

The more press it gets the more pressure they come under - not wearing a tinfoil hat here but look at the Russia/Ukraine conflict. It’s been going on years, now the press then their eyes to it everyone is interested.

Similar with issues in iran, press should continue to push it

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119681481#Comment_119681481

Indeed and yet in Ireland, the majority of the most loyal subjects are elderly women. Odd one.

hawley

This is more about Kurdish independence than women wearing a hijab. Iranian government has massively clamped down on Kurdish militants over the past week.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119681533#Comment_119681533

Islam is still only 500 years old

Really? And there was me thinking it began with Mohammed's journey from Mecca to Medina back in 622AD.

That said, Islam and Xtianity are very similar. The main difference is that with industrialisation in the 19th century European women began working outside the home - requiring a degree of independence, which was gradually leveraged to where we are now. As a result, we are (most thankfully) some way ahead of Islam today. Mind you fundamentalist Xtianity in the US (and NI) gives Islam a run for its money in many ways, although not so much in relation to women's rights!

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119682707#Comment_119682707

Iran was a totally different place pre nut jobs. Women wore dresses and moved about freely. People forget some of these places were pretty liberal until the nut jobs took over. Iraq for all the issues was a bastion in that region.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119681811#Comment_119681811

No, they just poison hundreds of men, women and children like Jim Jones, or rape them then burn them to death like David Koresh.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119681816#Comment_119681816

The reason everybody is interested is because Russia invaded Ukraine.

FFS like 🙄

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058265336/iran

There's a thread already here : Iranian Women Protest and Burn Headscarves — boards.ie - Now Ye're Talkin'

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119682905#Comment_119682905

I'd see a difference between tiny cults, and countries with millions of people, led by a "religious" government. The root of the problem is the same. Perhaps some religions (in general) mature more over time.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119682909#Comment_119682909

Remind me, what countries did Jim Jones and Koresh run?

And you have the temerity to type FFS like you were making some sort of valid point 😂

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119682707#Comment_119682707

Look up "quiverfull" and "purity ball" (just for starters) and get back to us.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119683650#Comment_119683650

You're damn right the root of the problem is the same.

These guys weren't powerful enough to take over a country so they tried to create their own tiny "countries". It's not because they were morally superior in any way to the likes of the mullahs in Iran, or the Taliban - just lacking the support and firepower.

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119685286#Comment_119685286

Just looked them up, yet more tiny fringe groups within Christianity. So what's your point exactly?

Quite different from the fact that variations on headscarves/veils etc are the norm in Islam, currently. Or the approximately 40,000 people from about 80 different countries who flocked to join ISIS in Syria.

I'm not saying Islam is bad. Just that (in a very general sense) its in an angrier, more conservative phase right now than what's left of Christinity in the world. This could change over the decades, or century. Saudi oil money had a big role in rolling back the tide of modernity for many Sunni Muslims.

Iran is a different case, but clearly from the ongoing protests you can see the desire for reform from large numbers of people.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058265336/iran

Unfortunately there's very little that international pressure can do to halt this kind of thing, when it has widespread support amongst the Iranian people.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119685314#Comment_119685314

When you say "powerful" enough, I suppose you mean that they were only headbangers who managed to convince a small group of gullible people to form a cult as opposed to being the dominant culture across a large swathe of the planet.

Still good to see that you're commited to the analogy regardless of how obviosuly **** it is. Kudos.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119685286#Comment_119685286

I've often heard that virginity is so highly prized among the fundamentalists in the Bible belt that premarital relations involve everything but penetrative sex.

If true, it makes an utter mockery of the whole idea; essentially trains young women (and their male counterparts) to engage in deception while respecting the letter of the law. Someone used to engaging in this type of deception in one area of their life will not find it difficult to transfer this type of thought process to other aspects of their lives.

Hotblack Desiato

Penetrative sex? Look up "god's loophole".

You're really very naive in the ways of Xtian fundies!

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119691042#Comment_119691042

What a phrase.