Land Prices Cork 2022

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119661490#Comment_119661490

Well some of us are basing it off that. Which is why we are saying talk about 400 an acre is silly.As I said above, you'll get it and more for spuds or veg but those are hard on the ground and you can't do them every year either. I'd sooner set land for grazing for 200 an acre than set it to be ploughed for spuds for 600.

Meanwhile in New Zealand. The land with no sfp or tams

https://www.fraserfinance.co.nz/blog/post/13344/Rental-assessments-for-farm-leases/

“The rentals will increase substantially if your client owns the farm and he just has to open up the boundary, connect up the races and connect the new piece of land into his existing dairy business. Rentals here could be in the $500 - $600.00 per acre region. Blocks of land which are adjunct to dairy farming platform also are up as high as $1,000.00 per acre.”

Agri land around same price as Ireland to buy.

The price of a rental farm comes down to quality of the land and demand in the area. That’s why the estate agent will get you the best deal.

cjpm

Jeez all this talk of riding Dairy Farmers for all they are worth……

Personally I’d pluck every hair out of my own sack with a tweezers before I’d line a land owners pocket, whilst breaking my hole milking more cows. Enough is enough

Obviously there are lads that have to rent land to run a big enough herd to support themselves, fair play to ‘em. But paying big money for land to milk a few hundred, not for me

farmer1990

My intention wouldn't be to ride anyone, just wanted to know what a fair price is at the moment, I mean if you have something of value, you're not going to hand it out for less than it's worth, if you are your better than most! both sides need to be able to benefit from the transaction!

Adding to the above, if the entitlements are included in part of the lease as they are drawing them down, are they then not taxed on the value of those entitlements?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119662739#Comment_119662739

No. As far as I understand it, you get that tax free as well. It is all mixed in together. Up to the cap for the length of lease.

Your land will be worth what people are wiling to pay for it. There is no point though talking about "it would be getting more than 400 an acre if it was a dairy farmer next door" if you don't have a dairy farmer next door..........I mean the 5 acre field out the back might be worth 100m if it was in Dublin city centre, but it isn't so it's not.

I would suspect that some of the stories of lads renting large blocks for relatively big money under long term leases are lads setting up separate companies to do it. So if the sh1t hits the fan, the company would just be wound up

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663109#Comment_119663109

Ya, the market decides the rent. I'd say advertise it to make sure you get the best rate. Around here you wouldn't get an acre and it is never advertised. The auctioneers books are full and wouldn't even entertain you asking.

I have heard that there are guys a number of years into the lease and they cut back the rate. The landowner can't break the lease or they will end up having to pay the tax.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663429#Comment_119663429

The landowner is misinformed. If the lease is broken, they can have someone else take it over for the remainder and still keep the relief as far as I am aware. It would be a fairly stupid thing for the renter to do anyway. He'd be unlikely to be given it for another lease if he tried that!

Donald Trump

Article from last year

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/farm-property/farmers-would-be-better-off-picking-up-a-part-time-job-than-paying-30000-to-rent-100ac-40152554.html

farmer1990

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663463#Comment_119663463

dont have a sub can you screenshot the article ha!

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663846#Comment_119663846

Neither do I so I can't screenshot it. Given it is an old article it might be ok to paste it below.

The land rental market remains on fire, with the cost of con-acre running around €100/ac ahead of last year.

Demand for grazing ground has been described by auctioneers as "crazy", while one farm consultant labelled the prices paid for con-acre as "absolute madness".

Tom Crosse of GVM in Limerick said the price of grazing ground this year generally ranges from €250/ac to €300/ac, although up to €350/ac has been paid in exceptional cases. This is €100/ac up on 2020 when the bulk of grazing land made around €150-200/ac.

A similar situation is reported in Cork, where Blarney auctioneer, Dan Fleming, said grazing ground was making around €300/ac.

Meanwhile, Padraic Murtagh of James L Murtagh auctioneers in Mullingar, said the land rental market had become "a total scramble".

The Westmeath auctioneer said he was getting in excess of €200/ac for grazing ground at the moment and he expects the price to rise as the supply of land tightens.

Tighter nitrates regulations, which have increased the dairy cow excrement rate from 85kg N to 89kg N, has been a major contributory factor in the stronger demand for grazing ground.

The changes mean that the stocking rate on intensive dairy holdings has effectively been cut by 5pc, and affected farmers are hunting for extra ground rather than cutting cow numbers.

A significant reduction in the land area available for con-acre, as a consequence of the switch to long-term leases, has also impacted the market.

In addition, Mr Crosse said more farmers are opting to rent this year rather than purchasing because they don’t want to commit to increased borrowing.

However, Templemore-based farm consultant, PJ Phelan, has questioned the wisdom of farmers paying over €200/ac for rented land; although he admitted that between €150/ac and €400/ac has been paid this year for ground.

"No matter how you do the figures on beef and tillage it just doesn’t make sense to pay over €200/ac," Mr Phelan maintained.

While he accepted that dairy enterprises could justify the higher rental prices, he said milk suppliers were handing their "hard-earned profits" from such ground to the land owner.

"If farmers want to stay in farming then they can’t continue to pay the rental prices they are currently paying. I’d be advising guys not to go beyond €200/ac," Mr Phelan said.

"Farmers would be better off picking up a part-time job than paying €30,000 to rent 100ac," he argued.

alps

Know of €400 where top class walk in milking facilities were available, and also of €170 top class land where nutrient build up is part of the deal..

Vast differences in the agreements between parties, all with different purposes, wants and needs.

Pointless harping on headline figures.

The highest bidder is seldom the best client.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119662739#Comment_119662739

This article looks good https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/top-10-tips-leasing-out-your-land/

Might be of use to you.

Jjameson

For a lad in milk, Taking fert at 1000 a tonne, an acre of fairly good grass rented at 400€ and spread the fert over two acres and rather than one, incorporating some clover into awards (both fully tax deductible) has to be value. A guy in drystock can pay for neither at those rates but no dairy farmer can afford to shirk a bit of suitable land in the present climate.

Tonynewholland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666564#Comment_119666564

Are you in milk yourself

Jjameson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666991#Comment_119666991

Im not. I’m letting a parcel of land next year.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666991#Comment_119666991

No but he's an authority on it anyway like most non dairy farmers. 🙄

Jjameson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667139#Comment_119667139

Explain where I’m wrong rather than going on the offensive with throw around childish nonsense.

Fert price /milk price has a direct bearing on land rent price. Nitrogen has a dramatic effect on pasture at low rates, medium at medium rates but efficiency falls off rapidly at high rates, coupled with the metabolic problems it causes and of course the impending environmental regulations . 400 an acre to rent or extra 8 bags of fert on owned ground? Rent is Fully tax deductible unlike buying where only the interest on borrowed money is allowed.

Marblerun

Hi all,

Interesting discussion going on here, albeit confusing at times!

If one excludes entitlements, is the going rate €400/ac? This is what I'm interpreting from reading the thread; but am doubting that going rates would be this high for tillage. I thought €200/ac would be closer to reality excluding entitlements for tillage land.

blackdog1

Nobody here is paying €350-400 an acre unless its next door and its clean maps so they can claim their single farm payment on it. Most farms in North Cork are rented for 250, you obviously have the exceptions. Only people I know paying 400 are spud guys. The maths just don't add up to be paying that much and fertilizing it.

Who2

There are a lot of parcels around the north east making 400 plus this year. I never thought I’d see it but it’s the run of what it seems to be going.

reiska

Often landlords exaggerate what rent they get because there's a stigma associated with not farming the land yourself. By exaggerating your rent received you are justifying your situation to the neighbours

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668629#Comment_119668629

Same here in the midlands, €350 plus is the norm now. I was talking to a man this eve who put a block of land to €400, it’s gone to €420 now and he’s thinking about going a bit further with it. It’s 62 acres in one block and every acre of it would need to be reseeded.

Tonynewholland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668757#Comment_119668757

Paying for the privilege to farm.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669111#Comment_119669111

Seems like it alright. It certainly wouldn’t be for me at that price but I suppose every man/woman is able to make the choice on what works for them.

Marblerun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668757#Comment_119668757

does the €400 include entitlements; which the lessee then pays back to the landowner?

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119671471#Comment_119671471

No, entitlements are on top of the per acre price.

It wouldn’t be standard practice to quote a price with entitlements included as everyone’s entitlements are different.

Jjameson

spud ground in north Wexford is up on €600. Grass ranges from 150€ to some locally here at €450 long term lease to a dairy farmer (80 acres in good order with slotted shed for 120 cattle + pit no maps, passing back full entitlements) Con acre topped €300 with maps.

Anto_Meath

Entitlements are usually 60 / 40 in favor of the renter, land around here is making up to €400 an acre but there could be €100 an acre coming back in entitlements so it is really hard to put an value on land rent values without know the full details. What you tent to find around here is that some of lads that a paying the big money would be poor tenants and tend not to renew leases so they are looking for fresh ground every year and then upping the prices reported. What you see then is the owner going back to one to the under bidders doing a private deal,

Marblerun

Why is there such a difference between grass letting and tillage letting, is it that tillage use takes the nutrients out of the soil and the owner eventually has to replenish and bear the cost? and would you ever see in a lease that the tenant has to hand back the land in the mineral state that he/she received it?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119672066#Comment_119672066

You can put what you want into a lease. Enforcing it might be an issue. You'd be more likely to have someone take care of the land on a long-term arrangement.

Yes, tillage is harder on land. Vegetables or spuds would require a premium. Especially the latter due to destoners which can damage a field. They will often require fresh ground as well. So you wouldn't be able to rent the same land for spuds year after year.

Some on here appear to have the reverse opinion that they'd set land to a lad for 250 to plough it up for cereals rather than accept less than 400 an acre to leave it in grass. Which makes no sense to me.