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Land Prices Cork 2022

24

Comments

  • Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You said you rent 100 acres for silage at less than 400?

    That makes sense to me.

    My point is that decent quality grassland is making 400 an acre and that’s the going rate. It’s not me or you setting the price it’s the market.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,531 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    I'd agree with you, 400/acre doesn't sound much when cows are now grossing 4000+/cow gross output, but it's the market and what can you do.

    We've no other customer and like Larry Goodman, farmers are well able to take advantage of other farmers when the ball is at their foot too



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44 farmer1990


    Thanks for all of your comments, really appreciated! 400 + own entitlements seems insane for land, are farmers actually still able to make a profit from this? the aim is to sign someone up for a 10 years lease (tax benefits) I would like to make the most I can but still want the leaser to make some profit off this deal



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,796 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    Leases are in above link .Thats for ag. properties in Cork .

    400 an acre is feasible depending on demand but around here its dairy farmers only unless for very small parcels .Veg ground is 600/700 an acre but there are good reasons for that .



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  • Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The 400 would include your entitlements.

    If you enter in to a long term rental agreement you are no longer a farmer so the person operating the farm would draw the entitlements



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,531 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    If youre going for a ten year lease, make sure to include the option of a review at five years,

    I didn't include it, the lease was done five years ago and the prices of corn and milk have nearly doubled since.

    Them's the breaks, eh



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,587 ✭✭✭DBK1


    Normally the price per acre would be for the land and entitlements would be on top of that. At least that’s the way it is around here anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44 farmer1990




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,531 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Some are leased with the land which are tax free, I only charge them 70% of the value of the entitlements as you have to make it worth their while to apply.... maybe I 'm too soft.

    The rest are leased on their own which are not tax free. land without entitlements was in more demand when I was leasing. all my land would be grossing more than 400/acre but that's going to change next year with the new CAP. It'll probably mean a reduction of about 100/acre in my entitlements



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Yeah it makes no sense to be quoting prices for land if you are including entitlements mixed in with the price. The entitlements could be 50 quid an acre or 250. Or it might be naked.



  • Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well if that place on daft.ie is 350 an acre plus entitlements then it would still be good value to an expanding dairy farmer getting 56 cents a litre.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,587 ✭✭✭DBK1


    Yea I’m not saying what is or isn’t value, just that generally the price you hear per acre is excluding entitlements. Like Donald said earlier everyone’s entitlements are different so it would make no sense to quote with them included.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,186 ✭✭✭blackdog1


    Nobody is paying this in North Cork. Good land bounding another farm could make 300 plus . Land that's a good distance away and only good for tillage or silage would be less. It also depends on if the maps are clean i.e. no entitlements on them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,577 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    If your basing thi go off the price of milk look at the last 10 years. Milk price is good this year, 7 years ago it was less than half current prices. Has to be sustainable other wise when the turn comes, and it will, there'll be nothing there to pay for it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Seems to be a lot of lads expecting to be able to hold others to ransom on an long term lease agreement based on a current spike in milk prices .... when the price is as likely to be 40cpl or less in two years as it is to be 60cpl



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,186 ✭✭✭blackdog1


    Alot of people think they can live off farmers backs . I had a vet in the yard this morning and I said I'd have to milk on night rate with the price of electricity, all he said was why with the price your getting for milk.. Everyone forgets about costs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    I'd say yields are also down after the dry Summer. Further additional costs with lads feeding silage early and then less milk to sell as well

    Lets take the example of the 350/acre 10-year lease farm quoted above. Suppose you do get someone who wants to milk on it. What are they going to have to bring to the table in terms of investment in cows, milking parlour or robots, machinery, labour etc? That's a lot of money and it's money you wouldn't get back the next day if you decided to sell it on. Whereas the land owner has a strictly passive role and they'll get the land back. It won't be "used" or depreciated. Very low risk for them.


    So the man renting it is bringing all that investment, will be also working the place, and takes on effectively all the risk. Whatever he makes on it, he'll be handing over 60k a year to the passive owner ...... and we have posts implying that less than 400 an acre is taking advantage of the owner. I'd be interested to know what the same people think that the fella working the land should be expecting to take out of it at the end of the year?


    Let's consider the alternative for the owners. They take out loans to make the investments needed themselves in terms of animals and facilitates, hire a farm manager and workers to look after the place so that they can remain passive, and let it run like that for 10 years. Would you expect that they'd take a fairly "guaranteed" 60k over what they might make after taking on all the risk?

    You can extend that scenario to anyone who wants to invest. It would be open to anyone to take on that lease, hire a farm manager and provide the money to set up and you'd never have to set foot in the place. That would not be uncommon in business investment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭JustJoe7240


    I'm Assuming you have the 100 acres for the year also?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,531 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    The market will decide what the land makes, landowner has very little say in it, the tenants will have their figures done,

    The land market isn't as inflated as your calf price is, ie there's huge possibility of making money off land rented for dairying, whereas buying dairy calves is a different story.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    I'm sure you'd have the money wrangler to make the investment and hire the farm manager and labour so you don't need to step foot inside the place. Do you think you'd get a decent return from your investment? I mean you might .... but you'd be taking on a fair risk that you won't.


    Anecdotal stories of lads paying 400 an acre are either because the person renting is really stuck and has no other real option, or the occasional neighbours field across the hedge. Someone else posted the link to the registered commercial leases above. You have to do that for the long-term leasing relief.



  • Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The op should go to his local real estate agent to see what it would make.

    19 places to rent on daft in the entire country, strong milk prices etc. A decent block of land will make good money.

    Talk of investment costs for the farmer maybe irrelevant if a dairy farmer over the ditch just has to do a bit of fencing etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Yes. We'd have around 100 acres taken that we mainly cut silage off. We have other bits taken that are used for grazing. The odd time we might not do a second cut on parts of the silage ground but normally just take 2 cuts from it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Daft is irrelevant.


    Actual leases are available at the earlier link. Have a look through them and see how many you can find for 400 an acre.



  • Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The farm on daft is coming in at 350 an acre.

    A local real estate agent will know what land is making in the area and who is looking for it.

    Unless you are in the area and in the market for it yourself then your opinion is irrelevant.

    Its in the op’s best interest to secure the best price possible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,531 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    I'm not at the age to be bothering with farming now, It looks like I retired at a good time, but it won't last, with so many retiring, getting out , etc and young people finally having the cop on to stay away from not only farming but any hard physical work.

    High prices always cure high prices



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    That was why I framed it as you doing it just as a passive investment in the sense you'd just put in the money and hire a manager to look after things. The same way people might invest in a pub for example. You wouldn't have to work it yourself. The point being that most lads might realise that there wouldn't be that much money in it at all.


    I know that things aren't always rational and simplistic, but speaking from purely financial logic, you'd have to ask whether, if you don't think it would work to pay a manager to manage it for you, why you would do it yourself?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭Tonynewholland


    Your saying dairy farmers can easily pay €400 an acre but on the other hand you think they are foolish to do so. I wouldn't advise any young farmer to pay the colour of that unless it a small amount of land and very convenient to an owned block of land.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    I don't get the obsession with dairy farmers somehow setting rental prices. There is plenty of land rented out for tillage etc. across the country. The tillage lads are not paying anything near 400 Euro an acre.

    If I had a choice between setting out land for someone to till, or to someone to grow grass, for the same money, I'd opt for the latter. So I don't know why there seems to be this belief that anyone can rent out their land to a dairy farmer for that money. If the tillage man is offering you 200, and the dairy man is offering you 250, why would you basically decide that either the dairy man gives you 400 or else you'll set it to the tillage man?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,298 ✭✭✭alps


    Stunning that nobody here is basing the value of land on what it is likely to grow..

    €400/acre is heading for 10c/kg for the ground alone.



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