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Ring Doorbell + GDPR

  • 10-09-2022 9:40pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,543 ✭✭✭


    Hi all

    I read all the threads about Ring Doorbells and GDPR but there’s a few questions I had that I hope somebody could help with.


    My neighbour has gotten a Ring doorbell. We have a very poor relationship - we don’t speak and have a fractious past. There is no hedging or wall between our garden. I am no particularly pleased with the installation of the doorbell as we feel monitored each and every time we enter into/out of our house, every time we go for a walk, every time we go to and from school / shops and every time we play in the garden with my family.


    I suppose that’s my question. How do I know that I am being recorded? How do I know what the sensitivity of the doorbell is set at (our gardens are shallow so I imagine it’s easy to set off)? How do I know what subscription she has and what’s being sent to Ring for storage?


    And then if I do contact the DPC, what will they do? Do they contact directly? Do they ask Ring for the information?


    And let’s say they do confirm that she is collecting my personal information without my consent, what can they make her do? I presume they’ll say - follow guidelines or something like that.


    Thanks all - I guess it’s the complaints process that I was wondering about.



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭FoxForce5


    I've always wondered about gardai asking for dashcam footage on news when talking about crimes. Is that subject to same laws as ring doorbells?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,092 ✭✭✭Damien360


    Despite your bad relationship with your neighbour, you are in a public place outside your home and I would think there is no identifiable data from that interaction on what is essentially CCTV. You walk in a myriad of stores every single day that record your every movement. I’m sure that other homes have CCTV on your route to the stores. Again, all in a public space. You are thinking far too deeply about what your neighbour sees or bothers to record. Relax and if you have to, moon at the camera once in a while to give them something to think about.



  • Registered Users Posts: 739 ✭✭✭goose06




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,543 ✭✭✭karlitob


    Thanks. No it is identifiable data - it doesn’t have to be crystal clear it has to be identifiable. It’s me coming and going to my own home every day. It’s me in my own garden everyday with my family. So it is identifiable. And I’m not in a public place - I’m in my home….my garden is private, and I’m entitled not to be recorded in it.

    My question was on the process that dpc undertake.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,543 ✭✭✭karlitob


    Yeah I read that. It doesn’t describe the process of complaint or answer my queries above. Thanks anyway.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,743 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Would you normally go next door and press your neighbours doorbell every time you leave your house?

    Edit: Sorry, I have an early version which only gave a video stream when it was pressed. Now I see it has motion detection, but it is a narrow field.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭s8n


    you sound like a lot of fun with very little to worry about



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,218 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I understand its perfectly legal under gdpr if a sign is put up saying its recording.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,543 ✭✭✭karlitob


    And presumably perfectly legal for me to request what is done with my personal data and that personal data relating to me is destroyed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,543 ✭✭✭karlitob


    Not exactly what I asked in my post but since you commented. My neighbour is an awful person that has made my life and that of my family miserable through years of verbal abuse, damage to our home and obscene gestures. I am merely asking if anyone knows what the process is for me to exercise the same rights that we are both entitled to. Though you seem to be unsympathetic to my plight I hope that you and your family never have to go through what my family has gone through and to go through. Many thanks for your post.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,743 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    What makes you think your neighbour is recording/storing data on you?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,543 ✭✭✭karlitob


    Hi

    its has a 155 degree field of vision and as I describe above there is no boundary between our gardens (we’re semi-d) so I and my family can be watched on constant monitoring while we are in our garden.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭Augme


    What's the end goal here?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,543 ✭✭✭karlitob


    Well that’s my question I asked in my first post - how do I know. It’s a video recording device that can record continuously. So it has the potential to record me - so how do I know, what’s the process the doc undergo, how do I enact my rights.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,543 ✭✭✭karlitob




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,743 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    I’m struggling to see why this is an issue for you. Ring.com bells are very popular, if it isn’t pointing towards your property, I can’t see why you think he would be monitoring you, or why you think he is recording you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,092 ✭✭✭Damien360


    From the data protection link above. In short, recording is not an offence for the purposes of home security but publication of this material may be one depending on what you do with it…….

    the quote ……

    However an important thing to note is that you may become a data controller for the purposes of data protection law depending on what you do with the recorded footage. What this means is if you, for example, publish the footage online or share it on social media then you may become subject to the obligations of a data controller……

    Your neighbour is not committing an offence and you are getting yourself worked up worrying about it

    Post edited by Damien360 on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Your neighbour would soon get very bored looking at footage of you going in and out of your house. Plus it would be a pain in the ass getting notifications about it every time.

    Ring devices allow the user to set motion detect zones and privacy zones, so you've no proof you are being recorded.

    If your neighbour is as bad as you say, why are you poking the bear by trying to invoke GDPR on their doorbell?

    You should install one yourself, if the neighbour hassles you and makes obscene gestures at you.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,879 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Without seeing the footage, I would make some assumptions.

    You don't have a right to privacy in public so without knowing the layout of the gardens it's hard to know if you would have a "right to privacy", I assume there's nothing blocking the gardens so I would assume that dashcams would be able to see everything also. The DPC has a fairly clear cut definition of CCTV and even mentions doorbells, the problem you have is you don't have a relationship with your neighbour so you can't find out what they are or aren't recording, for example they mightn't have a subscription, so nothing is being saved. You do mention that you feel that "Big Brother" is watching you, but if you ignore the fractious relationship with your neighbour how many other cameras do you have to deal with on a constant basis, for example how many other neighbours have doorcams, how many have dashcams, how many public CCTV cameras are around the place?

    I don't have a Ring myself but looking up Ring doesn't record 24/7 and it's motion detection is configurable (Can My Neighbor's Ring See Onto My Property? - Smart Home Point) Personally I can see why someone would have a problem with a neighbour recording them, but my Google Hello is a godsend, especially when working from home and with small children, if a neighbour was to raise their concerns around my use of it I would work with them to configure it so they were happy, if I wasn't able to make them fully happy well then that's their tough luck, I'm not getting rid of it for them.

    In theory you could put in a "Subject Access Request" to your neighbour where you tell them that you want a copy of all the data they have on you, they then will need to give you a copy, they could tell you that they don't have anything and if you don't believe them you'll need to bring a case against them, you'd probably be a test case in that scenario.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,772 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    I've a Ring doorbell and no matter how I configure it I get my neighbour coming in and out, during winter when the trees are bare big vehicles on the road will trigger the motion alert. Unless there are physical barriers then the camera will pick up a lot of motion.

    OP there is essentially nothing that you can do. It's illegal for a private CCTV camera to be pointed to a public place but its completely ignored and as another poster said the Gardai regularly ask for dash cam or CCTV footage. Then you get to the illegal storage of your data, but go to any social media site and you will see hundreds of videos posted daily with people's personal data clearly visible. Feck even the news stations regularly breaks GDPR regulations when doing outside broadcasts, they are sharing personal data without consent with no good reason.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,543 ✭✭✭karlitob




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,543 ✭✭✭karlitob


    thanks.

    well I’m not trying to poke the bear. Just want to know the lay of the land.


    she does this in the back garden so don’t want to record her in her back garden.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,879 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Sorry, I picked up that wrong



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,218 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I have a ring spotlight camera over my front door. The motion detect zones are set to within the boundaries of my front garden, and the height of the boundary walls, so even though the camera can see my neighbours' gardens, motion in those gardens does not trigger the camera and nothing is recorded. I'd have to have my phone in my hand and be watching the app on "live" to see my neighbours coming and going.

    I've actually had the Gardai knock in once when a neighbour across the street had an incident, and they were very disappointed that my camera didn't cover their house too!

    My biggest problem with false motion detection is spiders and spider webs!

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,543 ✭✭✭karlitob


    Thank you so much. That’s exactly what I was looking for. Thanks again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,543 ✭✭✭karlitob


    On the plans to do.

    Redoing my garden at the moment hence her reason for recording me. Sure she records us in our front garden her iPad from her front room.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    I contacted the DPC directly about this topic recently and it is a big grey area. See post #24 of this thread

    1. If the doorbell only points at the owners private property then GDPR does not apply
    2. If the doorbell points at public property then GDPR may apply but is never enforced because the doorbells don't usually capture enough detail to cause problems
    3. GDPR does not apply if the camera owner claims it is for "legitimate interests" which more or less anyone can claim in court

    In the unlikely event that GDPR would be enforced then the owner of the doorbell would have to display signage and delete data after 30 days.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,879 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    I'm interested in the 30 days, what context did the DPC give for that time limit and did they say delete or erase?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭Augme


    I did, and I'm struggling to figure out what you expect.


    For example - How do I know that I am being recorded? How do I know what the sensitivity of the doorbell is set at (our gardens are shallow so I imagine it’s easy to set off)? How do I know what subscription she has and what’s being sent to Ring for storage?


    Do you think people in boards can provide answers to those questions? I don't quite understand how that possible u less your neighbour is on boards.



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