Young people and emigration: The elephant in the room

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119649878#Comment_119649878

Never said it was unfair to compare. It is expected they would be able to provide better services because of scale and income. The USA and social policy is so linked to politics and fear of socialism/communism as they see it which makes it very hard place to live if not well off.

Most of europe understands the importance of social welfare and therefore provide it.

China is huge and has wealth but it doesn't care for its people either even though communist. People still live in very rural villages with little or no modern amenities.

Ireland tries and does fail in lots of ways but the principle is there and hard fought for.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119649607#Comment_119649607

I have lived outside of Ireland and I paid attention. You have chosen to ignore injustices because you live a good life. Would you accept these restrictions in Ireland? You are also very selective of what is and has happened in China. You think I am being "linear" in my thoughts on a the fact Muslim people are currently in a concentration camp. You can't just ignore it because YOU think it is only sometimes they do this stuff.

And here we go again. Taking the example of practicing your religion and using that, in the same theme of concentration camps. It's ridiculous.

I didn't say that you didn't live outside Ireland as you wrote about your time in the US.

As for all these injustices.. honestly? I don't care. I know that my caring or not caring is not going the change the situation even slightly. Decades ago, I did a term as a volunteer in Africa helping a community, and know what? That term of being there, while personally rewarding, changed nothing for the people who lived there, and the programme itself has been mostly a failure in bringing about any change. You want to rail about the injustices in life, using them as an excuse not to go anywhere except to stay in Ireland... fine. Knock your socks off, however, I suspect it's a position solely existing for this thread.

You admit you are in a privileged situation just by being a westerner and therfore ridding on the backs of those mistreated. You are fine with that which is your choice but anyone is entitled to judge you for your choice.

Riding the backs of the mistreated.. oh lord. This is gone beyond a joke at this point. Judge away, I'll do the same based on your content.

It isn't a home bird thing I see value in many countries as places to live just what you have picked I find morally bankrupt. You can argue all you like about other countries but you chose a country with a direct connection to abuse. The same as people who move to Dubai and ignore that slavery was used to build where you live.

Ahh well, I was curious.. and the pay was good. When I went to China, nobody I knew had been there for longer than a few months. Now, it seems like loads of people have been there. It is what it is. As for your seeing value in other places, you're obviously selectively applying your standards. Dig a bit, and you'll find that most countries have a range of injustices as part of their culture.

Your choice but you can not get away from the facts.

Another poster who thinks their opinions are facts. They're not. The few facts you've provided I haven't ignored or dismissed.. because they're not relevant.

Whereas you've decided to ignore the facts in the value of living abroad. Lower costs of living, possibly higher salary bands, possibly lower taxation, and a range of other benefits which makes living abroad a great option. Along with the value of personal experience. All shrugged off because of some tepid application of standards regarding injustice. Quite amusing really.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119650052#Comment_119650052

Are you denying there are people in concentration camps in China for religious reasons?

How the country you choose to live in treats people is always relevant. You choose to ignore it.

I have never once said you couldn't live a better life living abroad. Made it very clear that people claiming these countries are better as a result and saying the government and policies in ireland are unfair and the reasons they are moving. It is an absolute crock when you go to another country where it treats it's own citizens way worse. Their morals completely change to suit themselves like you have.

There is a huge difference between not being able to change something and actively joining in and accepting it. It is an incredibly weak argument to say "well there is injustice everywhere, so ...."

Strumms

What future have kids got here ?

inflation, higher taxes, climbing the sugar loaf with one arm and one leg is literally easier then affording and getting your own place.

you need to shell out money for private healthcare as public ain’t worth shît with these spiralling waiting lists with the influx of extra people all requiring supports, money, healthcare and housing free gratis, to be paid for on top of our population’s, taxpayers needs.

if you can’t afford your own vehicle you’ll spend ages Qing in often poxy weather for not fit for purpose public transport, inefficient bus service and a single tram line… metro…. 2034 now is the confirmed completion date. … my own view is that it will probably be shelved in favour of another Luas line….it will be completely out of date in terms of design, ability to cope with the demand for it due to these population surges. Serious upsurge in people who have free travel passes so how the fûck will the running of it be paid for ?

if I was 18 again I’d probably consider leaving.

this country is completely Donald ducked. Bolloxed, fûcked and done for.

say what you like about the British but the pulled an absolute masterstroke exiting the sinking brain drain, corporate cock sucking asylum that is the EU.

be like the 1980’s here soon, just many will never be back.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119650224#Comment_119650224

Are you denying there are people in concentration camps in China for religious reasons?

Nope. Not even slightly. Although, in reality they're there due to ethnicity and resistance to assimilation than religious reasons. However you jumped from sexuality and religious expression to concentration camps.

How the country you choose to live in treats people is always relevant. You choose to ignore it.

Yup. As do you, except in select cases.

I have never once said you couldn't live a better life living abroad.

Nope, you just presented reasons why people shouldn't do so.. still it seems that the argument has come full circle.

Their morals completely change to suit themselves like you have

As have yours. I guess your "honesty" only extends so far as to talking about others.

There is a huge difference between not being able to change something and actively joining in and accepting it.

Ahh well I've never had any jobs in concentration camps, harvested someone's organs, or whatever. I've worked in Finance and been a lecturer. So, hardly actively joining in on the various injustices you talk about. Just as recognising that something is not going to be affected, one way or another, by your presence in a country does not mean that you're accepting of the practice/activity.

But I've tried covering all this multiple times already and you keep coming back to the same judgment, so I'll be leaving it here. No point continuing.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119650224#Comment_119650224

It'd be a real shame if you were typing your response on a device wholly or partly made in China and in turn supporting their regime.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119650629#Comment_119650629

It all boils down to you having no grounds to moralise about failures in Ireland when your good life is directly linked to a regime that does far far worse. There is no jumping around on the people who end up in concentration camps in China. You can be there because of religion, sexuality or political view you defense is well actually it is minor ethnic groups they do that to who don't do as the government say. Where have I chosen my morals to suit myself? I am not claiming Ireland is perfect just it has progressed and striving to do better which have a cost. If we did away with these pesky rights and freedoms some people would be better off it may even be the majority but it has a cost I would not accept. You are willing to accept those things which is your choice but don't get to say it is a better quality of life for all but your own personal quality of life.

You are denying the full use of concentration camps. You are living in an economy that is hopelessly dependent on property price inflation and on the brink of collapse. If you worked in finance and lecture on the subject you know china is in huge trouble. I work with people from China and I know why they are here and they talk of China like you. One guy had his family farm seized and they had to move to a city. All the talk of what happens to young people in Ireland but you are not comparing what happens to young people in China. Not like a foreigner like you is coming in and taking a good job from the locals.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119650519#Comment_119650519

Except none of what you said is true for all. People are still buying houses. Private healthcare is affordable compared to many other countries. Couldn't care less about people wanting a car. Public transport here is quite good in Dublin whether you like it or not nor how you exaggerate how bad it is. You really don't understand engineering if you think trams and train go out of date like you are suggesting

If you think the UK is doing well out of the EU you aren't paying attention. Ireland is gaining educated immigrants. The people leaving Ireland aren't our best and brightest. I love how you also hate those getting social services while complaining the government is not looking after its people.

I doubt you were around in the 80s because we are not living anyway like back then. We are very close to full employment again. Emigration from the country is not even very high. You and others are making wild statements easily proved wrong.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119650952#Comment_119650952

It all boils down to you having no grounds to moralise about failures in Ireland when your good life is directly linked to a regime that does far far worse

Where did I moralise about failures in this thread? You're the only one throwing morals around like candy, and making judgments of others.

I can compare Ireland to other countries based along solid metrics such as salaries, quality of living, etc. However, I haven't said that Ireland is any kind of terrible country.. just that people can find abroad a better standard of living with a lesser overall cost than living in Ireland. Which they can. Your objection is based along moralising, and talking about injustice.. without acknowledging the practical reality that what I said is true.

You love to project positions on to other posters, positions that you put forward yourself, and then set yourself against that position.

You are willing to accept those things which is your choice but don't get to say it is a better quality of life for all but your own personal quality of life.

In terms of talking about QOL, we are all talking about our personal lives. There's a lot of irony in that sentence above.. perhaps you should consider what you wrote.

And I do get to say whatever I like. Again, the irony is there that you're the one making judgments and telling me what I should/shouldn't say.. whereas I haven't suggested the same for you or anyone else.

You are denying the full use of concentration camps. 

I don't think you understand what deny means or how it's used in English, because I have not once denied anything about concentration camps.

You are living in an economy that is hopelessly dependent on property price inflation and on the brink of collapse.

Well no, since I'm currently in Ireland.. and I'll be heading off to S.Korea soon (which does have property issues). My time in China is finished. And no, the Chinese economy is not hopelessly dependent on those things, and isn't in any real danger of collapsing. It'll shrink and dramatically slow it's unprecedented development, but it's more likely to head towards a period of stagnation. Which is more natural for major economies than what's been going on for the last few decades, and likely the best thing that could happen for Chinese people. A period of returning to modest economic policies. People, like yourself, are just dying to see China collapse, but it's not going to happen without something far more significant, like an invasion of Taiwan.

Not like a foreigner like you is coming in and taking a good job from the locals.

Again with this foolishness. No Chinese person can do my job because being a westerner is a core component of the position itself. Even when I worked in Finance being a foreigner was still a core part of the job description, and if they'd been unable to locate a foreigner, a Chinese person wouldn't have been inserted into the role. This has been repeatedly pointed out to you, and you continue to ignore it, while claiming not to ignore it.

Ray Palmer

@[Deleted User]

Their morals completely change to suit themselves like you have

As have yours. I guess your "honesty" only extends so far as to talking about others.

You claim you didn't judge my morals and I don't understand English.

You have played down the use of concentration camps every time. No point trying to gaslight when the conversation is there to see. Me pointing out your hypocrisy isn't really telling you what you can and can't say.

As the discussion is about the future of young people in Ireland choosing to ignore the young people of the country you go to is to show you really don't care about young people.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119651021#Comment_119651021

Doesn’t have to be true for all, that was never suggested but it’s true or will be true for millions of people.

no exaggeration…

gaining educated immigrants ? Some yes, many no. Pretty disingenuous to almost frame it as if there are Mensa members a plenty arriving to give us a dig out 😱

i was indeed around in the 1980’s having been born in the preceding decade my friend.

full employment ? Not that close according to government numbers. If we are though why are we enabling more people here ? Ohh ya, the eu, right.

loads of people i know are contemplating ‘getting out of dodge’. Young people, this country isn’t for them, they are being fûcked over BIG TIME.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119651232#Comment_119651232

Millions are leaving?? Got any figures for this claim. Your claim is it is the majority of the youth right? So you not exaggerating when you say millions which means at least 2 million or 39% of the population. Are you really going to claim you are not exaggerating?

I work with a lot of different nationalities which may even out number the native Irish. Most of the big tech companies hire staff from other countries. We attract MANY foreign nationals with better education. If you are unaware of this you really don't know anything about the Irish economy.

You obviously don't know how full employment works. If we have full employment we would of course want more people because everybody has work and we still have job opportunities. Below 5% unemployment is considered full employment

So you are late 40s or early 50s and loads of people you know are leaving the country because it is no place for the young. Why are you hanging out with so many young people who tell you they are "getting out of dodge"?

What kind of job do you have that you are unaware of the amount of college educated professional coming to Ireland?

Butson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119629492#Comment_119629492

In 18 years there could be parts of Ireland under water? Any evidence for that?

NSAman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119649168#Comment_119649168

Completely Agree with you on these points.

I know every place has its good points and bad points and nowhere is perfect.

Having lived in so many places, the one thing that really gets me is the lack of questioning and acceptance of Political decisions by the Irish (in general)

Tax policy is a joke. Taking 52% of a persons income and showing NOTHING in return is just taking the Michael. The Services are non-existent. Irish people just seem to accept it. I don't get it! When a government is constantly spending spending spending and the level of services are going down and down, something is not right. I work along side many large projects globally. The biggest joke I have ever heard is the budgeting of the Civil Service. How a hospital can go from 1 Billion (which was outrageous back then) to 3 Billion? It tells me that there is no accountability, no sackings and nothing will change. If this were in any other country, heads would roll in Ireland... nothing.

Money is squandered in Ireland. I still find it incredible that we have a health service that is one of the best funded and yet one of the worst for the user. I know I live in the States and Healthcare here is dependent upon your insurance and ability to pay, but sitting in A&E in Dublin for 24 hours is a joke and then to be put on a trolley for 3 days????

This is not a critique of Irish people, believe me, but holding people to account is something we don't do very well. That needs to change. Unless "the better good" policies are followed instead of "loud interest groups" things will never change.

Just my thoughts

Housing99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119649188#Comment_119649188

No renting is the most shameful thing in Irish Society. The only measure of maturity is home ownership in this country

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119651198#Comment_119651198

Cause and effect. Prior to your moralising and judgmental observations towards me, I had not done any.. don't start what you don't want to receive.

And you haven't shown any hypocrisy because I haven't claimed any position that I've gone against. You, on the other hand... You've shown a decided bias in applying standards to some cultures and not to those who you approve of. Same standards, applied selectively. Regarding gaslighting, nah, not even slightly, and I pointed out the misuse of denying because there was no basis for it's use. Just throwing out phrases willynilly.

As for your last line, just another claim with zero basis to form the assumption. I haven't mentioned one single thing about young people on the thread, nor have I sought, even slightly, to limit their options. If anything, I'm more supportive of them than you are, because I'm not trying to attach baggage to them like you've attempted towards me on this thread.

dtothebtotheh

I provided you a link to a house for sale 20km west of Melbourne for 260 k, goes against your stats/facts. My rent is $1400 a month (that’s 950 euro) for my own apartment. I live 4km from the city, with a train station 300 yards from my house.

what would I get for that in Dublin?

Atlantic Dawn

Someone working a decent enough role here and not being able to afford feck all in an urban setting and seeing some asswipe/conman/conwoman arrive here through 25 safe countries from a safe country to be given an own door house is going to piss people off.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119651836#Comment_119651836

The most shameful thing for you, perhaps. Many people on the continent rent and arent "ashamed", maybe they're more mature about it?

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119649116#Comment_119649116

German is a a bit annoying to learn. I'm still having problems with my pronunciation. However, everyone speaks some English. All professionals, doctors, lawyers etc are fluent. Plus, an awful lot of business is done in English. I work for a large German supermarket chain and everything I do is in english. So after one year, my German is still crap, but it hasn't held me back.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119653659#Comment_119653659

I'm still making my mind up. I could get an English-speaking job and take classes but the thing that gets me is how do you communicate with a GP, a hairdresser, etc who might not speak English.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119652774#Comment_119652774

You really like to add conditions to what you said so you can deny what you said. The thread is about how the government is screwing over the young people and if you aren't talking to that why be here telling people how easy it is to go to another country where things are worse for the locals. So hypocritical. No more discussion needed as you will always try to worm your way around it and claim I am putting up barriers when I am pointing out how hypocritical it is to complain about Ireland's policies while embracing a country that does much worse.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119649675#Comment_119649675

Once again, I'm not saying the US is better. I didn't even bring up healthcare in the US, you did. You brought it up out of thin air.

You realise that germany rebuilt after the war. They just built what they had before.

Secondly, it was 80 years ago. 80 years! Ireland had a policy of building social housing back then. The current crises has developed in the last 15 years. It wasn't even this bad during the celtic tiger. Housing in Ireland has been spectacularly mismanaged over the last two decades.

And yes, regarding traffic congestion, the figures for 2021 are down 42% on pre covid levels. I wonder what could have caused it to drop from PRE-COVID levels. what happened in those two years?

And yes, we're not even in the top 10. We're 16th. 16th out of over 1000 cities. That's such an improvement. Yay!!! We should have a parade, except the parade would probably move faster than the traffic.

https://inrix.com/scorecard/

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119653671#Comment_119653671

For GP's it's handy. Most speak english. But there's sites like https://www.jameda.de/ Pretty much all doctors are listed on there. You search by specialty and then you can filter by language. You can even make the booking online.

For a hairdresser, join your local expat group on facebook and ask there. I had a friend who moved here the same time as me and that's how she found her hairdresser. Pretty much every city has it's own expat group that can advise on stuff. They also organise night out. So it's a handy way to meet people.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119653914#Comment_119653914

Nothing was plucked out of the air. If you are talking about a better life all is in play as. How you are treated when something is wrong is very important. One minor health issue can mean you lose everything in the USA. Once you are a US citizen you also have to keep paying them tax even when you leave the country working elsewhere. Make your choices with all info

You think Germany rebuilt the properties as they were after WWII? That is so not true. They had a massive housing shortage so built apartment buildings where there weren't any before. The land was practically free as was the international aid.

Covid didn't effect traffic elsewhere? You also need to look at what the city is defined as. Dublin city is inside the canals so the traffic is a very small area that was never designed for cars. We are on the same development cycle of many European cities just starting later. Pedestrianization of more of the city is coming along with congestion charges. I can still get into the office in 30 minutes

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119653671#Comment_119653671

GPs will nearly always speak English. Hairdressers you can get by with the basics and a few phrases (unless you want a complicated haristyle!) - but it really depends on where your are. I've been ten years in Berlin and my German is still pretty intermediate (at bast) and have no problems.

Unless official mail comes in, but then I can get a friend to translate

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119654461#Comment_119654461

Thanks. It was more of a random showerthought than anything else. If my Dentist is telling me I have a cavity and need a filling in French, say, how are they going to do that if I don't know what the French for cavity is.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119653906#Comment_119653906

The thread is about emigration.. so, anything I've said so far is relevant. Can you say the same with your moralising?

The thread also is directed at Irish people, so why are you so concerned with the locals of that foreign country? You really should think about your arguments before putting them forward. You're trying to suggest that my posts are irrelevant to the thread, but all you're doing is showing how much of your own opinions are unrelated to the thread topic.

Show me where I complained about Irish policies.. while "embracing" another country. You keep avoiding the point like the plague. Young, or older Irish people can motor off to Asia, such as Japan, S.Korea or China (which I have direct experience of) and have a higher standard of living than Ireland while paying less for it. They're also facing a range of opportunities to earn more than they would in Ireland. You want to complain about the state of these other countries. Whereas I don't care... I'm more concerned with Irish people doing well for themselves.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119654082#Comment_119654082

The discussion wasn't about the US. You just decided I was saying it's better in the US than here. Unless you're rich, it isn't better. I never said it was and I have no idea why you're harping on about it. This is an argument you're having with yourself.

Yes, covid affected traffic elsewhere. And yet we're still in the top 20 of over a thousand cities. And it measures the amount of time that the average traveller spends stuck in traffic. You want to say it only affects the city centre? Traffic in Dublin is terrible. And what makes it worse is the spread. People have to travel long distances in slow traffic. And for some reason you're saying it's all fine. Despite me posting multiple links to back up my point.

And once again, the housing crises in Ireland has it's roots 20 - 30 years ago. We allowed loads of house building without giving any thought to sustainable development. Dublin spread out. The solution to everything was more housing estates. So we have a sprawl, with bad transport systems, very little medium to high density housing and now we're running out of places to buy/rent. There's no sustainable, forward facing national development plan. There's not even good regional plans.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119654461#Comment_119654461

I use the google translate camera app on my phone for official docs. Except for my lease. That was so long that I asked a coworker to read it.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119653378#Comment_119653378

100%

meanwhile you’ll be spending multiples more euros on petrol, depreciation of vehicle due to extra mileage and public transport not to mention your time and quality of life..

Housing99

My biggest fear in Ireland is that I will retire into homelessness and for that reason alone Im considering moving to Scotland where I would be able to buy an apartment in the suburbs of Edinburgh due to lower costs and higher loan to income lending

Please, as I have asked this so many times no no has answered, can someone tell me how people who dont own homes or have social housing will pay rents when they retire? A bedsit in Dublin is half my income as it stands so I just cant afford a pension. How will the state pension provide to cover these rents?

Shiok

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058262446/young-people-and-emigration-the-elephant-in-the-room

I think the trick is to get paid to move abroad.

Most of the expats I know (from all the world) in Singapore are being paid to be here. Certainly anyone I know well enough to know a bit about their lives (school mom friends, neighbours etc) are all being paid to be here and our very closest friends have all used each other at one stage or another as sounding boards when re-negotiating our respective benefits.

Fairly common:

• Rent allowance
• Car allowance
• Return business class flights to Ireland twice a year
• International school fees (to give context mine is SGD 40-50k per annum per child in nursery & primary)
• Global health insurance
• All initial set-up costs (flights, moving companies, tax advisors, legal fees, visa / employment fees, phone contract etc), hotel / serviced apartment for a month or two on arrival and usually some kind of once-off moving bonus to cover any unforeseen issues.

I have also seen friends get their furniture rented for them (condos mostly come unfurnished here) and memberships to country clubs.

I would be the first to encourage anyone to move overseas for life experience and/or career progression and have huge respect for anyone who has stepped out of their comfort zone into the unknown but I agree with your sentiment that not all places are anymore financially beneficial than Ireland. Singapore (even with substantially lower tax rate) being one of those places in my opinion, unless being compensated very well for being here.

Shiok

Should have added that there are plenty of people living their best lives here and other places that are not one bit bothered that they aren’t coming out much more better off than they would in their home country at end of the month and that’s perfectly fine. My point was made for those who are considering a move in the hope of solely being able to save money.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119654994#Comment_119654994

It boils down to being a hypocrite no matter what way you look at it. If you want to deny it that is good enough for you but others can see right through it. Once you have a better life you don't care. Lots of people here are complaining about how people in Ireland are only looking after themselves and don't care about those below them in economical terms. Even if you didn't say it that is what you are doing. The fact is you have said you don't care about those suffering for your better life.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119656601#Comment_119656601

You got an answer many times you just don't like the answer. The obsession you have has been pointed out and your threads have been removed as a result of your behavior. You need to get professional help so you can learn to not to obsess and put your life into a reasonable state. Owning a property is not as big a deal as you make out and it is a very personal issue you are having here. This is not really about housing for you and you need to get help

Housing99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665807#Comment_119665807

of course owning a house is a big deal. Renters are looked on as of a lower social class in Ireland and are embarrassed. This is why people hate landlords because of them being their social betters structurally. And no one can or has explained how a renter can pay on the state pension

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665807#Comment_119665807

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665854#Comment_119665854

...its clearly obvious our approach to housing is now in a state of collapse, and nobody truly knows what to do about it, this is also not just an irish problem, as many developed countries are now experiencing this problem. what people actually require is 'security of accommodation', but our modern approach is yielding almost the complete opposite in both rental and purchasing markets, this is exactly what a catastrophic failure is....

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665953#Comment_119665953

Again what is the "state of collapse" . Are houses disappearing? Do people no longer need to live in properties?

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665978#Comment_119665978

the overall approach of providing accommodation is now in a state of collapse, we are no longer capable of providing this critical need, and we dont know what to do about it....

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665995#Comment_119665995

There are plenty of solutions but deeply unpopular so won't happen. If collapse means a lack of supply that is a very weird suggestion. Collapse tends to mean a loss of value. You have a very weird definition that is unique to you. We have an occupancy issue as there is plenty of housing under occupied in the country. Most of Dublin suburbs were built with families in mind but OAPs occupy them now so we have massive under occupancy.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665854#Comment_119665854

I told you already the answer is you won't be able to pay for rent with a state pension if things stay as they are. That is your answer.

Can you stop saying you never got an answer?

See you want somebody to tell you that it will be alright and you will be taken care of is the only answer you want. When you get an actual answer you complain you never got an answer.

You have a personal issue and need to get help with because you have tied your existence to owning a property and comparing yourself to others. As things may not change you have to learn to live and get over your personal views that cause your problem.

You now have the idea you are moving to Scotland but last week it was Spain.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666031#Comment_119666031

...and 'valuation' is one of the main reasons why we re now experiencing this collapse, the whole approach of turning property into financial assets is collapsing, it has ultimately failed....

again, we are no longer capable of adequately providing the necessary amount of property required, and theres no easy solutions on the table, but feel free to mention your solutions?

we ve been clearly experiencing significant supply problems for well over a decade now, and yes, many houses were indeed built for families, when in fact we ve required many different types of housing from standard 3/4 bed, to 1/2 bed apartments, this whole approach to just largely building standard homes is collapsing, society has changed greatly over the decades, hence the urgent requirement for these different types of property...

isolating oaps is just fcuking dumb and ignorant....

Housing99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666066#Comment_119666066

So yes, the answer is my fear. That I will end up homeless in old age if still renting. A lot will. Or else will never be able to stop working. This is the problem with renting in Ireland. You pay all your life at prices so high you cannot save a pension and then retire unable to pay the rents and end up with no where to live.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666072#Comment_119666072

Still failing to say what has collapsed or is. Not enough property being built means there is a demand for growth the opposite of a collapse. To make it a collapse of supply to say the market is failing is just being misleading. Redefining the whole premise doesn't make any sense to anybody but you.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666099#Comment_119666099

....again, yes, the market approach to housing is collapsing, it has failed, its over, again, we are no longer capable of providing this critical need via this approach...

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666073#Comment_119666073

OK so what are YOU going to do to deal with YOUR emotional response to this and the despair you feel? That is what you have to do

IF things stay the same that is what will happen but things will not stay the same. There are a number of different options that will occur in the following decades. As is the state have to provide you housing.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666127#Comment_119666127

What is collapsing? Are houses being built? Are people buying them? The government not providing social housing is not the collapse of anything. You know you are turning around the whole meaning of collapse and saying lack of supply means the market has collapsed. Just because it doesn't match what you want doesn't mean it is in collapse.

When the government were going to invest in construction due ERSI warnings the public went crazy and insisted they didn't. They followed the public opinion and we ended up here. They should have followed the financial advice but that is not how things are done here. Hence we know we have a pension crisis coming and aren't following the advice as the public don't like it. Things will be very bad for some people but they won't listen

Housing99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666164#Comment_119666164

Actually the Trokia decided that home ownership and mortgage loans caused our crash and created structures to make more of us rent, hence the tax breaks for vultures and "professional Landlords", the Irish public however dont want to rent and the state realised that too late leading to the current situation

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666214#Comment_119666214

Hilarious. I would love you to prove that

What are you going to do about your emotional response? That is a YOU problem and you have already have had threads closed because of your behaviour