Official meaning for flashing amber filter light

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119619229#Comment_119619229

Lots of detail is available, including;

The research also showed that 61% of Irish drivers admit to glancing at incoming texts and/or calls on their phone, compared to 40% of drivers in the UK. In addition to drivers sending texts, WhatsApp’s and emails when driving, a further one in four (25%) claim to read emails and texts while behind the wheel.

Phone usage

Irish drivers’ phone usage isn’t just limited to texting or emails either, which is another cause for concern. Approximately one in five drivers in Ireland (21%) admit to using social media apps such as Facebook, Instagram, and/or dating apps while at a stop sign or red light. Over one third (39%) of Irish drivers read emails, texts, and/or browse the internet while at a stop sign or red light, versus just 24% of UK drivers.

From: https://www.libertyinsurance.ie/content-hub/67-irish-drivers-admit-using-their-phone-while-driving

harmless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618921#Comment_119618921

The car crossed over an unbroken cycle lane marking. Who has right of way?

Spook_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119619558#Comment_119619558

This is the crux of the matter, afaik the broken line to designate a shared space cycle lane does NOT in the SIs availiable designate it as a lane, otherwise all of the narrower roads where there are bus lanes marked incorperating a broken line designated cycle lane would not have enough room for an actual bus or bicycle to occupy either section of road exclusively.

Edit as to your comment about crossing a solid white line, i would like to see the council instructions for where that line is supposed to end as it would seem pretty impossible to take the corner otherwise

harmless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119619616#Comment_119619616

The video you posed and the example of Infirmary Rd from OP are both unbroken white lines for a designated cycle lane.

The broken lines are only on the junction to permit cars to take the turn if the cycle lane is clear.

I agree that in other cases on a shared space cycle lane it is not as clear what the law is. Do you know of a sharded space that also uses one of these amber filter lights?

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618921#Comment_119618921

Car driver should have looked over the shoulder and waited, obviously.

However.... Absolutely textbook terrible road positioning by the cyclist in the lead up to it. And the majority of the replies in the cycling forum agree.

Looks to accelerate into the vehicles blindspot on an e-bike, stays there for 10 seconds, and then ignores the early indication.

If they're a serious enough cyclist that they buy an e-bike and 360° camera, they know full well that they've positioned themselves in the blindspot spot, if not at the time, at least upon watching the video.

And nothing against e-bikes, but they're not yet commonplace enough to expect drivers to expect them.

But in any case, way off topic as there is no Flashing Amber....

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618921#Comment_119618921

Driver is changing lanes, before he turns left. He needs to yield to the traffic in the lane he is crossing over, before taking his turn. Not that hard to do.

Driver in the video is a learner, so presume they are still learning how to drive correctly.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119619229#Comment_119619229

Anyone with two eyes can see that the majority of motorists find it acceptable to use their phone, in their hand, while driving.

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119619852#Comment_119619852

They should yield yes, but the cyclist is effectively hiding in what they really ought to know is the vehicles blindspot for an extended period of time, and then ignores the indication. Do you see any issue with that at all?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119619855#Comment_119619855

It's certainly not the majority, although it is a significant minority. An insurance company conducting such a survey is a bit self serving too, the worse people think our drivers are, the easier it is to justify hiking premiums. The 61% figure could mean anything from someone looking text in traffic, once, all the way to 61% of drivers on with a phone in their hand 100% of the time. Such figures are intentionally vague and don't tell the real story in the slightest.

I told ya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119619141#Comment_119619141

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618375#Comment_119618375

I'll stick with the evidence of my own eyes rather than 'Corporate Ireland', whom a cynic might say have a vested interested in painting a bad picture. Oh look, at all those drivers speeding, using their phones, bla, bla, bla, as the cash register is ringing in the back round.

So if 1m people make a journey in a single day, then at least 500,001 have used their phone whilst driving.

There's a clip on youtube of Sir Humphrey and Bernard discussing a survey on reintroducing National Service. Comedy aside, it shows how to frame the questions to get the answers you want.

So, is answering a call on a hands free system using the phone whilst driving. Is leaving the phone face up on the passenger seat and glancing at calls using the phone whilst driving.

I'm reminded of Inter Cert maths and the quote about the use of statistics.

Seth Brundle

So if 1m people make a journey in a single day, then at least 500,001 have used their phone whilst driving.

It is clear that you're being deliberately disingenuous here!

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119620710#Comment_119620710

The cyclist isn't in the blind spot until close to the end. Motorist should clearly have spotted the cyclist, and waited for them to pass, before turning across their lane. The issue is motorists think that once they indicate, they can do what they like. They generally wouldn't turn across a lane with another car in a similar fashion though.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119619711#Comment_119619711

On a practical level, I agree with you and would never cycle that way myself. However, it’s indicative of a problem with the way cyclists are treated on Irish roads. Imagine instead it was two cars being driven side by side on a city street. Should the driver of the left car stay back, out of the blindspot as they approach every junction? Should they slow down and give way as soon as the driver of the right car puts on their indicator? Perhaps they should but it’s not required by law and it’s definitely not the way people drive. Why are cyclists different?

I told ya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119620966#Comment_119620966

In what way?

A clear statement was made that 98% of drivers speed and a majority (50.00000001...%) of drivers use their phone whilst driving.

I simply queried the phone usage. We can argue whether 1+ out 2 represents a majority or not. Sometimes referred to as a simple majority.

Or is it 10% of the drivers using their phones five times whilst driving during the course of the day or during the course of one journey? What questions were asked in the survey? Have you ever used your phone whilst driving as opposed to how many times do you use your whilst driving the same journey?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119622003#Comment_119622003

Tell you what, contact the surveyors and put your queries to them rather than posting here as if you don't believe there is a problem

I told ya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119623076#Comment_119623076

Lol.

So rather than address the claim of in excess of 50% and see if it even looks somewhat reasonable, just blindly accept it.

Go and talk to the surveyors. That's really a well argued response.

And by the way, I do accept there is a problem with phone use whilst driving. I never posted that phone use should be tolarated.

My problem is with the steadfast acceptance of a vested interest's claim.

spurious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119619855#Comment_119619855

Likewise cyclists breaking red lights, though if surveyed, I bet they deny it. Who wins today's medal?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119623246#Comment_119623246

I never said anything about the 50%. What I previously alluded to was the fact that most drivers use a phone does not mean concurrently and you know it. Instead, now were having this stupid discussion.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119619852#Comment_119619852

Driver was on their own so assume the L plate was for a child of theirs, hopefully they're not teaching them to drive

I told ya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119623295#Comment_119623295

Well I'm sure you know what they say about arguing with stupid people, they'll drag you down to their level and run rings around you. Maybe after tens of thousands posts I'll cop onto it😀

trellheim

can we please get off the people on mobile phone , its got its own thread

harmless

I think anyone still confused about why the amber filter lights were installed can watch the DCC video I posted. It's easy to understand.

However I think the real question is do these lights actually make the roads safer?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119620783#Comment_119620783

I'm not sure why Toyota would be part of 'Corporate Ireland'? The Liberty survey was across a bunch of countries iirc, so it was nothing specific to Ireland or the Irish market. Both surveys were done by professional surveying companies. They're not 'opinion' surveys, like the Yes Minister example you gave. They're surveys that ask for factual information. If people are asked if they use the phone while driving, the majority of them say yes. It's really not a huge surprise if you look a visible endemic levels of phone usage. What percentage of people do you reckon have a phone on their lap while driving, just waiting to distract them?

GM228

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119619054#Comment_119619054

That was myself who clarified what is a “traffic lane” in the Legal Discussion forum a few years ago (road traffic law is one of my specialties in law).

An amendment will only supersede a provision which it is actually amending, other provisions are separate and still stand in their own right, a vague regulation which is not qualified absolutely does not supersede a specific qualified regulation.

They don't need to specifically mention a cyclist, they refer to traffic and vehicles which covers them.

But the area to concentrate on is yielding right of way to traffic in another lane, it is true that a "traffic lane" for the purposes of traffic offences is very narrowly construed due to the way they are defined under the Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 1997 (and also in the Road Traffic (Signs) Regulations, 1997).

However, under common law S8 (8) of the Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 1997 has a far broader application, this common law position dates back to the Ex parte Lewis (1888) 21 Q.B.D. 191 case (and even further to time immemorial) and the legal principles of pass and repass on a public highway (which for those who do not know is the common law basis for the right of use and enjoyment of public roads), the legal description of pass and repass was determined in 1888 and held to be a "right for all Her Majesty's subjects at all seasons of the year freely and at their will to pass and repass without let or hindrance" - in other words without limit or interference, since time immemorial use of the roads has been an equal right of way for all road users subject to not limiting or interfering with someone who is lawfully on the road, or in such a circumstance where lawfully already present in a lane (not a "traffic lane" as defined in regulations, but a lane in the ordinary sense).

Once you are lawfully in a lane (the courts will hold this to mean any lane including bus lanes and cycle tracks) other traffic must yield right of way to you when merging into your or crossing through your lane as otherwise they go against the very right of use of the road under common law and the principles of pass and repass of a public road.

I told ya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119636056#Comment_119636056

Re: your final paragraph. How do you reconcile "give way to traffic on your right".

trellheim

take this streetview . What is the difference between a flashing amber and a solid green circle. You have to check the left mirror anyway before turning or at least I normally would

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3481713,-6.2956777,3a,75y,55.77h,75.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDELAGCASExfxdlvpDKjZNw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

why is there no flashing amber on this left turn then its a left turn and two busy roads https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3299616,-6.2639028,3a,75y,257.38h,91.82t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1svQBXMj24c-VHxsDWCjgjKA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DvQBXMj24c-VHxsDWCjgjKA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D97.3855%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

PS the rathmines bridge is much more dangerous for blind spot left turns, having cycled for years at both

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119637131#Comment_119637131

My understanding is that there is no difference between them. DCC are gradually adding flashing amber lights at junctions like this to remind people of the possible presence of cyclists. How they're picking which junctions to change is unknown, maybe it's based on cycling numbers or maybe they add the extra lamp if they're doing other work on the junction already.

GM228

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119636960#Comment_119636960

There is no general "give way to traffic on your right" requirements in law, you are getting confused with the yielding right of way to traffic approaching from your right at a junction provisions.

GM228

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119637131#Comment_119637131

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119637214#Comment_119637214

The difference is that unlike the solid green the flashing amber requires you to yield right of way to any traffic on the major road which is not qualified by the direction that the other traffic is travelling in, so if a cyclist is travelling straight ahead and on the major road you must yield right of way to them if they are going straight and you are turning left.

I told ya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119637755#Comment_119637755

Ok. What I meant was in moving traffic, on the open road and not at a junction.

Not trying to derail, take the case of being on a duel carriageway in lane 1 and a vehicle in lane 2 wants to enter lane 1. Does the vehicle in lane 1 have to give way to lane 2 by eg slowing down? Per your paragraph lane 1 has the right of way over the vehicle from lane 2 trying to enter lane 1.

GM228

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119637989#Comment_119637989

Any traffic entering a lane has to yield right of way to any traffic already in that lane irrespective of road type, speed etc.

You are not required to slow down to allow other traffic enter the lane you are in, same goes for joining a dual carriageway/motorway etc when entering them from the slip road, traffic already on the road has priority.