Property and inheritance taxes should be raised, says State’s commission on tax and welfare

magicbastarder

i'd be curious to know what the average value of an estate is in ireland, when passed on in a will. because i suspect a considerable majority of irish people pay no to little inheritance tax on inheriting a parent's estate.

I'll use myself as an example, typical enough 1970s born with two siblings. my parents estate would have to be worth over €1m before we'd get a whiff of having to pay inheritance tax.

if the estate was worth €2m, we'd have to pay €110k each; think of how many of the world's smallest violins we'd be able to afford with the €1.65m we'd be left with, to play to ourselves.

Isn’t it an error to call it death tax? The persons estate who has died is not taxed, it is the person receiving the money, so it is an inheritance tax.

mid someone does and leaves their €1m house to their four kids, no one pays any tax, but in a lot of countries, the full €1m would be taxed and the leftovers divided out among the four offspring.

magicbastarder

i don't think i've heard it referred to as a death tax outside of boards; IIRC cnocbui is australian so is probably using the australian term.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548440#Comment_119548440

Yes, I think the Australian term is more appropriate. That was an Irish newspaper headline I quoted wherein it was referred to as death taxes.

bluedex

The commission output made reference to the re-distribution of wealth, property tax and CAT being some of the mechanisms to do so. Another poster also referenced it. This is socialism. Many people may agree with it but it brings its own multitude of problems, as history has shown, including the lack of incentive for entrepreneurship or basically lack of incentive to do anything more than the bare minimum.

To be blunt and very simplistic, why should people who do well have their wealth re-distributed to wasters?

bluedex

The commission also recommended a rise in PRSI payments by the self-employed, a levy on holiday homes, a congestion charge and higher excise duty on home-heating oil.

Topgear on Dave

I'd love to inherit a gaff.

I'd to break my bollix for years working, whilst paying rent, to get the deposit for the gaff I bought. Next plan is to pay it off during the next 30 years..

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548369#Comment_119548369

It is called CAT, as it applies to gifts and inheritances.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548657#Comment_119548657

People who do well don't have their wealth distributed anywhere, other than whoever they decide should get it.

Their beneficiaries will have part of the wealth distributed, but they could well be wasters.

magicbastarder

one of the outcomes of the system is that your father or mother could pay you €33,500 p.a. to sit on your ass doing nothing, and you'd get that money tax-free, for up to ten years.

and the PAYE chump working a job and contributing to the economy, getting the same income, would be paying approx €5.5k of that every year. but we're saying it'd be immoral to expect the person getting the money for free to have to pay more.

bluedex

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548803#Comment_119548803

Yes they do, they pay taxes which go into the exchequer and are used to fund things like social welfare. Which is how it should be to a certain extent.

I think the question is, how far should that go? When is too much taken and subsequently re-distributed?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548824#Comment_119548824

Actually, because of the single year €3,000 exemption, they could pay you €39,500 p.a. tax free.

KaneToad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548074#Comment_119548074

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/reform-inheritance-tax-to-ease-inequality-says-oecd-1.4561893

The OECD see it differently. There is a very generous tax free allowance before anything at all is paid.

Call it what you want but the unequal distribution of wealth is a problem. There are structural biases that exist to ensure the status quo and the wealth imbalance remain. Inheritance being one of them.

People also often think it is their own brilliance or their own hard work that has them so financially secure when there are many more brilliant and more hard working who never got the leg up that they got.

Do you think Michael O'Leary got to where he is by brilliance & hard work alone? Or did his very wealthy parents, his education in one of the country's most expensive boarding schools and his friendships made there with contemporaries (Tony Ryan's two sons), play any part?

ticktickboom

They can **** off to be honest.

crossman47

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119547418#Comment_119547418

You're completely right. At last some common sense here.

downtheroad

Curious as to how people won't pay increased taxes? Local Property Tax compliance is extremely high, so that will be a difficult one to avoid. Acquisitions Tax is self assessed but if it goes through probate it will again be very difficult to avoid.

Murph85

Why raise PS pay, why not a pay rise for all with USC abolition? New petrol and diesel cars should have way higher motor tax rates. Increase LPT substantially or abolish the token gesture it is entirely.... hospitality vat rate for hotels increased to the original rate. Scratching the surface of tax raising measures I would introduce to massively reduce middle to high income earners excessive tax burden. 50 percent marginal tax rate that you get hit with at not much more than the living wage is a disgrace!

bluedex

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119549343#Comment_119549343

You have to incentivise innovation and entrepreneurship in general, to have a successful and consistently improving economy and society. Not punish it. Just because some people have geographic or family advantages doesn't change that. The begrudgery in Ireland to success is f**ing mind-blowing.

bluedex

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119550125#Comment_119550125

No, we need a broader tax base. It would be interesting to see some empirical evidence as to why some people feel taxes on property are successful in doing anything.

SC024

Interesting that there is no mention of the state trying to be more cost efficient, "ah sure we'll tax them some more "

Murph85

https://www.newstalk.com/news/younger-people-could-be-facing-much-higher-taxes-ifac-1377546?utm_source=whatsapp&utm_campaign=article&utm_medium=web

No young person in their right mind would stay in this country!

kevthegaff

A sizeable amount of agricultural land around the country is being hoovered up by non farmers who can then leave it to their kids without paying inheritance tax(once the child does a night ag course). This land then is rented out to the farmer where the owner receives moneys tax free. The idea of this was to get more young farmers into farming but has had the opposite effect, with no young farmers able to afford to purchase.

anewme

Inheritance tax thresholds discriminate against people who dont have children.

People who have worked hard and paid for their home out of their own after tax income should not see their Estate fleeced by the Govt.

Topgear on Dave

They won't see it.

They're dead.

Quitelife

How will TDs children be fixed when they pass on all their rental properties to their kids ?

The likes of Robert Troy with 10 or 11 houses won’t want any changes to inheritance tax

bluedex

Hi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119550595#Comment_119550595

I'm sure they'll have a Commission to advise a change in the system 😁

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548488#Comment_119548488

death taxes is inaccurate because it's quite possible to hit the 335k threshold when you're still alive.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119550533#Comment_119550533

i don't have kids and i don't feel discriminated against. because - as mentioned - it won't be me who pays the tax.

if i was to give 200k to my nephew, whether i am alive or dead, it's going to cost me 200k. it's my nephew who has to pay, not me.

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119550802#Comment_119550802

I do feel discriminated against and I knew there are a lot of people feel similar.

I've paid already for everything I have via PAYE. It should be mine (within reason) to leave to who I want to. The thresholds penalise single people wanting to leave something to family members.

It is back to what others have said about middle income paying everything.

The rich have enough money to pay for detailed tax advices and set up tax avoidance schemes, the poor have nothing to leave, but the middle people, who have worked away from 18 to 65 prop up the system

How much tax on a 400K house would a nephew have to pay?

magicbastarder

a lot.

my nephew can **** off if he thinks he's getting my house though.