Property and inheritance taxes should be raised, says State’s commission on tax and welfare

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119554674#Comment_119554674

Dues have been paid on it? Really, that's the logic being applied here?

Employees shouldn't really pay tax either if you think about it, the employer has paid their dues on that money already as well......

Epic logic being applied here.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119555118#Comment_119555118

If say my Dad had savings of 80,000 the vast vast majority of that money he has earned, through work, paid a significant rate of tax and is left with that.

if we inherit it… that money should again go through a tax filter ? The state grabbing another chunk ? Just because ?

not a fair premise in my opinion,

if in two years I died… the money is left to X…. they the state get another chunk ? Just because ?

it’s a scummy, premise….by the logic of it if my dad gifted my 10,000 now… the state should tax it…again ?

employees should pay tax, the money they are being paid with are from a pool of assets. Paying tax on earnings fine, gifts or inheritance, nope… slimy.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119555195#Comment_119555195

Your father can leave 300+ K to each of his kids before revenue go near it (various terms etc but thats the gist of it)

You can leave 300+K plus to each of your kids without revenue going near it........

What is wrong with that?

Yes, the state should tax, within reason, asset transfers from one individual to another - zero slimy about it especially when you look at the tax free amounts that are allowed.

As for your last line - that makes zero sense - the son or daughter is getting something from a pool of assets as well, something they've really done nothing to earn.

magicbastarder

if we inherit it… that money should again go through a tax filter ? The state grabbing another chunk ? Just because ?

your dad worked hard for it so you shouldn't have to pay tax; this argument does a better job of convincing me that your dad shouldn't have had to pay tax, but you specifically should, than it is of convincing me of what you suggest. you've not worked for it, your dad did! it's a gift to you, your dad earned it - if you're making the argument that the money was earned through work, it's hard to argue it shouldn't be taxed when unearned.

(and no, i'm not arguing against the concept of income tax; if i inherit something from my parents, i will pay far less tax on that than i will on what i earned in my job, something which contributed to the economy too)

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119555260#Comment_119555260

hows about this what we spend in this country we dont see much of a return for it. How about we see reports from these c()nts on spending and where we can save. We pay too much and get very little. Fix the spend side first before asking for more.

magicbastarder

"A recent survey from Irish Life, for example, revealed that while a quarter of over 65-year-olds expect to leave estates of more than €500,000, half of adults think their family home is exempt from inheritance tax."

another way of looking at that is three quarters of estates would be under €500,000, with no tax liability if there are two or more children. or if there is an only child, a maximum payout of approx 10% of the value of the estate.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/death-and-taxes-what-it-costs-to-inherit-the-family-home-1.3632113

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119555069#Comment_119555069

Your question does not make any sense whatsoever.

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119554632#Comment_119554632

I think a strong Tax Advisor is the way to go and thanks again for that link.

The problem with people (like me) is that we assume as PAYE workers only is that we dont think we have enough to leave that would warrant advice, which is a big mistake.

Timistry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119554880#Comment_119554880

There is no such thing as inheritance tax or CGT tax in Australia. A will is made and if your the beneficiary, the assets are transferred to you.

Their top tax band is 50% but that only kicks in after 150K or so. 1% of tax paid is put into a side pot for healthcare expenses like GPs (medicare). Overall a far more equitable society which a focus on the generation of wealth for all.

Inheritance tax in Ireland reduces future wealth and the money goes into a black hole to be squandered.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119555528#Comment_119555528

I'm an Australian. There is CGT, but it's at a 3% lower rate and is far more equitable, in that you can take inflation into account. Ireland's CGT rate is probably more like 38%+ compared to countries that allow for inflation.

Ireland's taxes are high and go to paying for an over paid and inefficient public service. We have one of the highest spends on health care per person in the OECD and the worst outcomes.

This country doesn't need greater taxation, it needs politicians who aren't gutless cowards who can never face up to the need for cuts and improving efficiency. How Ireland wastefully spends it's income is the problem, not the amount of income.

downtheroad

From the Irish Times - approximately 500,000 taxpayers and just ten firms accounted for over a third of the €68.4 billion in tax generated last year.

€23billion of last years tax intake came from a very small base. If those companies leave Ireland we are ruined.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119555639#Comment_119555639

Which is another reason why the spend side should be looked at in detail. The IMF told us 15 years ago we were spending way too much and that spend did not really come down. You only have to look at the public services the IMF said they are paid too much they got some cuts yet things like increments were still paid. It was like emptying a swimming pool with a bucket and taking water from the deep and and throwing it back into the shallow end. We also have to remember we have been borrowing like there is no tomorrow for our spend and we get very little for that spend. If you want anything decent you have to spend more like a private pension (where the government of the day can raid for what ever they want), and of course private health insurance. Can anyone see where 60 odd billion that has actually been spent in this country has gone??. The state commissioner needs to do another study on spend start with the HSE as we could pump another 5/6 billion in there and it wont make the organization any more efficient. Why should anyone pay any more tax in any guise while we get p1ss poor returns.?

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119555695#Comment_119555695

Not disagreeing with you, but look at the public sector pay rise agreed this week. It will take a government with serious balls to stand up to those unions. Current government won't do it, and neither will SF.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119555848#Comment_119555848

It wont be happening no government will ever do it as it impacts their pocket. It will take the IMF coming back in again.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119555639#Comment_119555639

Hence the attempt to contine to widen the tax base.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119555695#Comment_119555695

Agreed, in general. However the focus on wages is just one aspect of the spend and your summation of "Some cuts yet things like increments were still paid" isn't factually correct.

Those cuts have only just completely unwound now and we hear consistently that wages (at the lower end) of the public service and for specific positions just aren't high enough to attract people. What do you do?

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119555313#Comment_119555313

You are back to my point again.

An Estate of €500K left by a single person with no children but with one niece or nephew.

Huge liability on an Estate like that.

It is discrimination against single people or people who dont fit into the box of "family" according to the Tax Laws that were written in the dark ages. Time for them to be brought up to date and for all people to be taxed fairly.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119556364#Comment_119556364

If the person leaves it to their nephew their nephew gets an asset worth 500k for 150 odd k, give or take. What exactly is wrong with that

It's not discrimination, it's the application of a specific tax regulation based on both individuals circumstances.

Leg End Reject

It's not just your possessions either. Pay into a pension all your working life and if you don't have a spouse or dependent children it all disappears into the ether when you die.

There's very little you can do to avoid it either. When people talk about personal wealth a huge proportion of that for most people is bricks and mortar. My estate will be my home and its contents, car and some modest savings. The value combined isn't insignificant (but not millions either), yet very little is actually available to spend unless I fancy living in a tent. I've paid for all of these along with being taxed on my salary. I'll have to work until I can draw down my pension if I make it that far.

I can't pass this on without giving someone a tax liability and a deadline for paying revenue. It is unfair and punitive, and that before we even consider increased LPT.

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119556435#Comment_119556435

Where the estate of a person with a child or two children pay virtually nothing?

Everything is wrong with that.

It is discrimination against people with no children.

Just because it is the law, does not mean it is not discriminatory. We have had to change many discriminatory laws over the past number of years and its time tax legislation was overhauled to bring it up to date .

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119556479#Comment_119556479

Again, I have to be careful here because there are lot of people who cannot have kids for one reason or another and my sympathy goes out to them but if you are childless by choice surely this is just another thing to add to the pros and cons list when making that decision?

The laws take into account the relationship between the person leaving the estate and the person getting left it and apply accordingly. Nothing discriminatory about that and if you think there is you're in for a hard time dealing with the real world.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119556526#Comment_119556526

The reasons for not having children are irrelevant. These taxes haven't been updated to reflect the huge societal changes that have occurred over the last 40-50 years. The days of being married off if you're a woman for financial stability, or whispered insinuations of being gay if you're a man are gone.

We are now free to make life choices to suit our own needs and wants, yet CAT is disproportionately applied to the estate of those without a spouse or children, or widows whose children predeceased them and don't have grandchildren. It would be different if the state handed us all a house and nest egg, but if you've worked and paid for your "personal wealth" you should have the right to pass that on without the government taking 33% on the majority.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119556569#Comment_119556569

What societal changes have taken place that makes your niece/nephew/son/daughter any different a relation to you than they were forty years ago?

Why should you have the right to do that?

Should the person getting it have the right receive a massive amount of money tax free without paying it forward?

Speaking from a personal POV if I were in that position, 60s with an estate of 500k under me and no spouse or kids, I'd be selling up, moving to Spain and retiring as young as I could. Couldn't really care less about what happens my assets when I die.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119550458#Comment_119550458

No course is necessary. They still have to satisfy the asset test and cannot sell it for 7 years without clawback. Stamp duty is 7.5%. I think that the relief of leased ground should have some conditions as regards owners prior farming activity. Business relief actually is slightly less restrictive.

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119556591#Comment_119556591

The tax laws were written when a family was husband, wife (probably at home) and 2.5 children. Society has moved on since then.

Single people's Estate's should be given the same considerations as those without children.

My nephew is as important to me as someone elses child is to them. My Estate should be given the same reliefs as someone's with children.

You might not care less, but some of us do and that is why this discussion is taking place.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119556591#Comment_119556591

A change in the concept of family, the nuclear family was the norms for years.

The societal pressure to get married and have children has dramatically reduced. Contraception is readily available so having children is now a choice rather than a result of being sexually active. Homosexuality has been decriminalised and people no longer need to get married to hide their sexuality. Women have equal access to education and employment and can be financially independent, this removes the need to get married and allows it to be a choice.

Property prices mean owning a home is a pipe dream for many younger people, single or as a couple, job security has been reduced, the level of education required for many roles has increased and third level is expensive, rents are extortionate and many will be forced to live at home into their 30s and beyond.

So yes, I do think people should be able to help their nieces and nephews get a foothold in life without revenue turning the screws.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119554791#Comment_119554791

But the more you reduce the incentive for people to excel, the fewer people will do so.

Well one way to reduce the incentive is to protect old money so that children of wealthy families never have to bother their arses through the generations. A proper tax system should incentivise them to get up off their arses and stand on their own two feet.

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119554468#Comment_119554468

There has already been tax paid on the money, double taxation like this is wrong

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119555195#Comment_119555195

And would you think that that should be for unlimited generations? If your dad leaves you 80k, can you then leave that 80k on to your kids, and them to their kids and so on and so on?

Maybe the likes of the Westons should be able to pass down all their assets through unlimited generations with zero tax if is can be shown that someone paid the tax due on them a few hundred years ago?

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119556706#Comment_119556706

Double taxation? Really - that's the argument now.......

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119554803#Comment_119554803

Precisely